Kenny Williams

[Dick Allen]

I forget where I read the story, and really don't know if it is true, but there was something out there last year that in the Peavy trade, Hahn was prepared to do the trade with Middlebrooks included and that KW shot that down. Eventually they reworked it and got Avi.

[SoxAce]

I remember bucket saying at the draft that KW wanted Jackson and Hahn wanted Rodon. Obviously, we know who won that decision. I'm sure there are things Hahn defers to, but this is his call in the end I feel.

Edited November 14, 2014 by SoxAce

[LDF]

I forget where I read the story, and really don't know if it is true, but there was something out there last year that in the Peavy trade, Hahn was prepared to do the trade with Middlebrooks included and that KW shot that down. Eventually they reworked it and got Avi.

 

I do remember there was a trade talk, but I do not remember the main players. I forgot

how it came to be with Avi.. I could of sworn that a 3rd person interjected.

 

dang it my memory plays with me. sorry.

[GreenSox]

Hopefully his role had nothing to do with trades, although I guess simple veto power wouldn't really mess anything up.

[Chicago White Sox]

I think some of you guys are really overplaying KW's role in our current front office. IMO, Hahn is clearly running the show. He's the one crafting the vision and executing the plan. KW obviously oversees the entire operation and has to approve the plan (and could veto it if need be), but that doesn't mean he is setting the organization's strategy like Theo clearly does. This is Hahn's show now and the change in management seems pretty apparent to me.

[caulfield12]

I remember bucket saying at the draft that KW wanted Jackson and Hahn wanted Rodon. Obviously, we know who won that decision. I'm sure there are things Hahn defers to, but this is his call in the end I feel.

 

We will know five years from now.

 

Cooper also had his favorites among the first round pitchers...Rodon wasn't #1.

[Balta1701]

We will know five years from now.

 

Cooper also had his favorites among the first round pitchers...Rodon wasn't #1.

How do you know that? All I heard was he didn't like Kolek.

[caulfield12]

How do you know that? All I heard was he didn't like Kolek.

 

http://voices.suntimes.com/sports/don-coop...raft-prospects/

 

It was Aiken in the beginning.

[SoxAce]

We will know five years from now.

We will know who turns out the better player. We already know who decided the prospect drafted to us.

[Balta1701]

http://voices.suntimes.com/sports/don-coop...raft-prospects/

 

It was Aiken in the beginning.

There's a difference between Cooper liking a guy who wasn't available when we drafted and Cooper liking a guy that Hahn then passed on. If Aiken was 1 and Rodon was 2, I'm ok with that.

[caulfield12]

Although they would have traded up if cooper was calling all the shots on pitchers.

[LDF]

I don't think his is true. People may be underplaying KW's role, he's still very much involved.

 

As far as the draft, the Sox knew Aiken was going to go #1. On draft day the Sox were between Rodon and Nola with Rodon obviously being the preferred player.

 

no offense but in some ways both are right. i agree more with CWS. with ref to drafting, trades,

player movements, that falls under Hahn. JR uses KW more as an overseer of the org. KW

will allow Hahn to do what he is suppose to do without any interference. JR is getting long in the

tooth and i much as i will hate to say this, he is delegating his duties out.

 

the one recurring theme is whom ever makes or want to make a change or trade or fa signing, has

to run it by JR. JR is and has always been a hands on owner, on all final decisions.

Edited November 15, 2014 by LDF

[caulfield12]

It would be interesting to hear the cigar smoke-filled war room discussion in terms of who was most adamant about signing Abreu. Or the various thoughts about Viciedo Ramirez Tomas and Moncada going forward.

Edited November 15, 2014 by caulfield12

[chitownsportsfan]

Hahn could have left for any number of GM jobs before taking over KW. He only stayed for one reason -- full control. You're naive if you think that when the White Sox put a press release out announcing Hahn's assignment as GM that KW was really getting a promotion. He got moved upstairs, he probably mostly chats with JR and does scouting. He gave two thumbs up hard for Abreu, and that couldn't have hurt.

 

KW deserves it (the pay raise and laid back retirement), he had some misses and left the Sox in a pretty bad position, but he also won a World Series on a very well constructed team that could have done more in 2006 but ran into some bad baseball luck (it happens, they had good luck overall in 2005).

 

In general his teams were competitive, usually mediocre, but rarely poor. Add on the title and he was a helluva GM for Chicago despite his string of bad moves to end his tenure.

 

 

[chitownsportsfan]

It would be interesting to hear the cigar smoke-filled war room discussion in terms of who was most adamant about signing Abreu. Or the various thoughts about Viciedo Ramirez Tomas and Moncada going forward.

 

In Jose's case? Probably the stats geek looking at the Davenport translations. KW was probably a close second

Edited November 15, 2014 by chitownsportsfan

[GreenSox]

I forget where I read the story, and really don't know if it is true, but there was something out there last year that in the Peavy trade, Hahn was prepared to do the trade with Middlebrooks included and that KW shot that down. Eventually they reworked it and got Avi.

If so, good move by Kenny.

I remember reading something about another GM complaining that the Sox GM wasn't empowered to make final decisions.

 

[Quin]

Although they would have traded up if cooper was calling all the shots on pitchers.

 

So something that is literally not possible?

[LDF]

So something that is literally not possible?

 

correct me if i am wrong, but isn't there not trading of draft picks,

only comp picks.

[Quin]

correct me if i am wrong, but isn't there not trading of draft picks,

only comp picks.

 

Correct. Comp picks can be traded, the rest can't.

[chitownsportsfan]

What is your source for believing all of this? What about when the Cubs put out a press release announcing Jed Hoyer the GM? He's not the head with the Cubs even though he's the GM. Did you ever consider Hahn's ties to the area and the fact that he has a young family here?

 

I'm not saying Hoyer equals Hahn as Hahn most definitely has a bigger role and more autonomous GM role but it's not to say Hahn is acting alone. It's a conglomeration of people making the decisions up there. Yes, Hahn handles the day-to-day decisions but Hahn reports to Kenny Williams. If Kenny Williams wants to put the kibosh on a trade that Hahn orchestrated that trade will not happen.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Hahn

 

Look how many interviews he turned down. That's just from his wiki. He also was rumored to be high on Boston's list after Theo left. Look at his body of work with the White Sox -- it speaks for itself, he has negotiated spectacularly team friendly extensions (and contract in Jose's case) and turned an aging, bad team into a mediocre, young team in 2 years.

 

I can't say with 100% certainty that Hahn doesn't have final executive say on baseball decisions, but I can damn sure lay out a case that if he doesn't, then he'll soon be leaving the Sox because if he aspires to be a true GM (and what type A like Hahn doesn't?) a number of other teams will come begging.

 

KW retired. That's what happened. But, because JR is JR he orchestrated it so KW got a raise (thanks for that WS!!!!!!!!) and a "promotion" in the press.

 

If you think Hahn has to go to KW for permission to make a deal -- you're way off base IMO. He has 100% authority. He wouldn't have stuck around otherwise.

[LDF]

Correct. Comp picks can be traded, the rest can't.

 

I misread the org answer, but again thanks for clarifying that rule.

[LDF]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Hahn

 

Look how many interviews he turned down. That's just from his wiki. He also was rumored to be

high on Boston's list after Theo left. Look at his body of work with the White Sox -- it speaks for

itself, he has negotiated spectacularly team friendly extensions (and contract in Jose's case) and

turned an aging, bad team into a mediocre, young team in 2 years.

 

I can't say with 100% certainty that Hahn doesn't have final executive say on baseball decisions,

but I can damn sure lay out a case that if he doesn't, then he'll soon be leaving the Sox because

if he aspires to be a true GM (and what type A like Hahn doesn't?) a number of other teams will

come begging.

 

KW retired. That's what happened. But, because JR is JR he orchestrated it so KW got a raise

(thanks for that WS!!!!!!!!) and a "promotion" in the press.

 

If you think Hahn has to go to KW for permission to make a deal -- you're way off base IMO.

He has 100% authority. He wouldn't have stuck around otherwise.

 

wait a minute, I like what you wrote, but I am more than sure, Hahn had nothing to do with

Jose A contract.

 

second, I believe and with out any confirming sources that KW is directing the sox org. the only

one higher is JR. but all deals has to be pass thru JR.

 

[LDF]

I wasn't questioning that he got interviews and offers for interviews, I knew that. I wasn't aware KW retired, he must have retired right after bringing in Jose Abreu while Hahn was the GM.

 

You're entirely wrong on the bolded and you haven't given me any source or reason to back up your thoughts. You basically infer that because Rick Hahn is good at what he does and had other interviews that he is 100% in charge, and that's a little silly. Baseball teams are really moving away from that one person steering the ship and I know you're well-versed enough in baseball to recognize and understand that it just seems you're not willing to accept that your favorite team is another team operating in that fashion. Maybe the Sox aren't as open about it a la the Cubs or Dodgers, and maybe KW doesn't have the same day-to-day duties as Theo, but the Sox front office is still steered by more than one head. That doesn't mean they don't have the same vision for the direction of this team either.

 

While it's kind of moot, I do think you're underplaying the fact Hahn is from here and has a young family here. Maybe he didn't want to pick up everything and take his wife little boy to another city. Maybe he felt obligated to payback the team that gave him a chance on a whim. It was certinaly publicized that his move to GM was known years in advance as well and maybe that played a role in his unwillingness to leave.

 

As far as Hahn having 100% control, Kenny has thrown a veto on a Peavy to Boston trade that did not involve the Tigers. I believe it was DA who alluded to it earlier in the thread and I got confirmation from someone within the organization that it was the case. Hahn wanted Middlebrooks and Williams either didn't like Middlebrooks or thought there was a better offer out there. That same person, who is in baseball ops, told me "Hahn is the acting GM and handles the day-to-day processes but KW has the final word and will be in Reinsdorf's ear if he feels the need to be." When I continued to probe on this topic he said something like "Hahn is very much involved in all organizational moves, but Kenny still has the juice and definitely misses the day-to-day part of being a GM" and went on to say that KW is operating under immunity.

 

Now whether you want to take my word for it, is on you. you can take what I say with a grain of salt and consider it bulls*** and I wouldn't blame you as I am just another quasi-anonymous message board poster.

 

a very good and well put together post. thanks for more insight to the top

workings of the sox org.

 

nice

[GreenSox]

went on to say that KW is operating under immunity.

What does that mean?

[SCCWS]

As far as Hahn having 100% control, Kenny has thrown a veto on a Peavy to Boston trade that did not involve the Tigers. I believe it was DA who alluded to it earlier in the thread and I got confirmation from someone within the organization that it was the case. Hahn wanted Middlebrooks and Williams either didn't like Middlebrooks or thought there was a better offer out there. That same person, who is in baseball ops, told me "Hahn is the acting GM and handles the day-to-day processes but KW has the final word and will be in Reinsdorf's ear if he feels the need to be." When I continued to probe on this topic he said something like "Hahn is very much involved in all organizational moves, but Kenny still has the juice and definitely misses the day-to-day part of being a GM" and went on to say that KW is operating under immunity.

 

Now whether you want to take my word for it, is on you. you can take what I say with a grain of salt and consider it bulls*** and I wouldn't blame you as I am just another quasi-anonymous message board poster.

 

The rumor was very strong in the Boston media as well that Middlebrooks was the guy being offered for Peavy. But eventually the Reed/Davidson was probably not a better decision than Middlebrooks for filling the 3B hole. I would still prefer Gillaspie over Middlebrooks at this stage.