Jason Castro

[Eminor3rd]

It's an upside play -- you get him if you think there's a good chance he bounces back. If he does, you can try to extend him, if he doesn't you let him go. Houston might be willing to deal him at that price because they have other catchers they like more.

 

Of course, it must come at the price of an upside play. If it costs them something that assumes he'll definitely bounceback, then it's a dumb deal.

 

if this gets done, I assume it will be later in the offseason, because HOU is going to ask for a bunch at first, but it stands to reason that his price will come down as they get closer to going into the season with like 4 catchers.

[fathom]

The Sox have always liked Castro, as there were rumors he was their guy in the draft if Beckham wasn't on the board.

[witesoxfan]

Oh yea, another Teahan deal.

REally cheap, fine. When is the last time the Sox got a player like that really cheap. Sox will pay his 2013 price - top dollar, if they get him. Astros aren't going to let him go really cheap anyway.

I'm just sick of these 140K guys anyway; you guys want more of that action, fine.

 

If there isn't a discount with the Astros having 3 catchers and Castro coming off a bad season, someone else can pay the piper. The Sox aren't going to pay for his 2013 production this offseason.

 

This is a guy people were talking about trading Quintana for last year. That's not going to happen. If the Sox can get him as a discount, then you can take a shot. If not, you don't bother.

 

Also, if you are suggesting K's are bad and you do not want them, I'm assuming that also means you would not take Mike Trout. Guys strike out. It happens.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

Seems like a super buy-low type deal to me.

 

 

Do it.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Any guesses on the prospects dealt to HOU? I'd like a competition at catcher.

[Chicago White Sox]

Castro won't come cheap regardless of his poor 2014. There are simply not enough quality catchers out there and Castro has more than enough upside to warrant at least a decent return. He'll be available at a discount, but the real question is how much?

 

While catcher may not be our biggest hole, I have zero faith that Flowers is the long-term answer. If I'm Hahn, I'm checking in on both Castro & Grandal in case their markets are smaller than expected. Both guys have much more upside and a better chance of being long-term solutions than Tyler IMO.

[Bob Sacamano]

Padres are listening on Grandal and their starters now according to Heyman

[BlackSox13]

Would love to grab Grandal and one of Ross/Cashner but I dare not think what the asking price would be. I would imagine Bassitt would be involved.

[daggins]

A dude like Noesi might thrive in PetCo Park. It would probably take more than that to get Grandal even with his value way down.

[ptatc]

What changed your mind? You used to be pretty gung ho for Salty?

 

The concept of pitch framing makes a lot of sense, and the better framers should be worth a lot more than the poorer ones. I just think there are too many factors that cause some strikes to be balls and some balls to be strikes other than the catcher. The two different formulas I have seen used, most of the top 5 are the same except for order, but below that, there is a wide variance. Flowers is terrible in one and one of the better framers in another.

Its only because the stats guys hav3 finally figured out how to somewhat quantifyvpitch framing. Stuff that used to be important but people stopped caring about because it wasnt part of the stats package. The idea of defense first for catching is coming back around.

[LDF]

Its only because the stats guys hav3 finally figured out how to somewhat quantifyvpitch framing. Stuff that used to be important but people stopped caring about because it wasnt part of the stats package. The idea of defense first for catching is coming back around.

 

this may be way off. but i always thought that "the basic", "the fundamentals" went out

the window and in its place is nice style points. the look nice stabbing at the ball.

 

the thing i wrote was said back in the late 80's by 2 hall of farmers players.

[BlackSox13]

Would love to grab Grandal and one of Ross/Cashner but I dare not think what the asking price would be. I would imagine Bassitt would be involved.

 

 

Bassit has a good short season and stint in the AFL and all of a sudden he's headlining trades. Yeesh.

Where, in the above post, did I say anything about Bassitt " headlining" a possible trade? Is it too difficult for you to comprehend why I threw his name out there? Let me help you. Given Bassitt's September performance and his AFL performance, he would appear to be ready at being given a shot at a major league rotation or bullpen. Now, since I was inquiring about the cost of acquiring one of Cashner/Ross, wouldn't it make sense that maybe, just maybe, SD would want a young cost controlled MLB ready pitcher in return?

[BaconOnAStick]

Grandal for John Danks. Sox eat some salary. Padres get a guy they can flip at the deadline after he lights everyone up at Petco. Sox get another option at C.

 

Anything more than a totally disposable piece and I'm against the idea of Castro or Grandal. Flowers has good power for a C and he handled the staff pretty well last year. I have zero problem with him coming into the season as the starter. If the Sox want to bring in a LH or SH C to compete with him for the spot and split more time in a platoon kind of role that's fine too. Using our bullets (what few the Sox realistically have) on a catcher is silly, however.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Alexeihyeess

[GreenSox]

While catcher may not be our biggest hole, I have zero faith that Flowers is the long-term answer. If I'm Hahn, I'm checking in on both Castro & Grandal in case their markets are smaller than expected. Both guys have much more upside and a better chance of being long-term solutions than Tyler IMO.

From what I've read, they're pleased with how Flowers handles the staff. He was also top tier last year in throwing out runners. He also played a lot and was a real warrior out there.

Catro's offense will never be great anyway- it may be good for a catcher - but again, when you are well below replacement in LF and at DH, that's a tertiary upgrade. And he was terrible last year.

 

Aren't there some hitters we can trade for? Sign Sandoval and move Conor for an outfielder, perhaps? Move Alexei for young pitching.

Edited November 15, 2014 by GreenSox

[Chicago White Sox]

From what I've read, they're pleased with how Flowers handles the staff. He was also top tier last year in throwing out runners. He also played a lot and was a real warrior out there.

Catro's offense will never be great anyway- it may be good for a catcher - but again, when you are well below replacement in LF and at DH, that's a tertiary upgrade. And he was terrible last year.

 

Aren't there some hitters we can trade for? Sign Sandoval and move Conor for an outfielder, perhaps? Move Alexei for young pitching.

Listen, I think LF & DH are bigger holes for next year, but I think catcher is just as big of a problem long-term. Flowers may have enough defensive ability to be a passable starting catcher temporarily, but his offensive game will prevent him from ever being more than mediocre IMO.

 

I honestly think Castro & Grandal would both be big upgrades over Tyler. Again, I would still prioritize other positions first, but if the price is right on either of those guys then I'm buying. There isn't one catcher in the system that looks like a long-term answer, so at some point we'll be forced to address the position, might as do so now if it doesn't prevent from fulfilling our other offseason goals.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

It's funny, last year I was screaming for a trade of Quintana for Castro + Altuve. Never would have though a year later that Altuve would be the headliner of that deal.

[TaylorStSox]

Its only because the stats guys hav3 finally figured out how to somewhat quantifyvpitch framing. Stuff that used to be important but people stopped caring about because it wasnt part of the stats package. The idea of defense first for catching is coming back around.

They think they can quantify it now, so it's an issue. I

[Balta1701]

Listen, I think LF & DH are bigger holes for next year, but I think catcher is just as big of a problem long-term. Flowers may have enough defensive ability to be a passable starting catcher temporarily, but his offensive game will prevent him from ever being more than mediocre IMO.

One thing worth noting...in 2006 the average OPS of catchers in MLB was .743. Last year, it was .687. Tyler put up a .693 OPS last year and the team put up a .688 mark as a whole. With a ballpark factor included that's just a tiny bit below the midpoint.

 

That's not going to carry us, but "about the midpoint of the league" would be tolerable long term. Like a lot of positions, with he way offense has fallen off, everyone needs to rescale what they call mediocre.

[Chicago White Sox]

One thing worth noting...in 2006 the average OPS of catchers in MLB was .743. Last year, it was .687. Tyler put up a .693 OPS last year and the team put up a .688 mark as a whole. With a ballpark factor included that's just a tiny bit below the midpoint.

 

That's not going to carry us, but "about the midpoint of the league" would be tolerable long term. Like a lot of positions, with he way offense has fallen off, everyone needs to rescale what they call mediocre.

Yeah, I get he was technically productive last year with the bat, I just don't have a lot of faith it's sustainable going forward. His BABIP was nearly 50 points higher than his career average and his K % & BB % were 36.0% & 5.7% respectively. Those numbers just don't add up for a successful 2015 IMO.

 

Additionally, he's an incredibly streaky player. I know advanced metrics don't account for context, but I believe guys like him are worth less than stats like WAR might say otherwise. Over time, consistent scoring gives you a better chance of winning and more often than not he's a black hole at the bottom of the lineup. I just don't like him as an offensive and one flukey season isn't going to change my perception of him.

[GreenSox]

Yeah, I get he was technically productive last year with the bat, I just don't have a lot of faith it's sustainable going forward. His BABIP was nearly 50 points higher than his career average and his K % & BB % were 36.0% & 5.7% respectively. Those numbers just don't add up for a successful 2015 IMO.

 

Additionally, he's an incredibly streaky player. I know advanced metrics don't account for context, but I believe guys like him are worth less than stats like WAR might say otherwise. Over time, consistent scoring gives you a better chance of winning and more often than not he's a black hole at the bottom of the lineup. I just don't like him as an offensive and one flukey season isn't going to change my perception of him.

And castro had a BABIP of .350 in his career year; .294 last year. Neither of these guys is trustworthy. Castro's only 6 months younger.

[LittleHurt05]

It's funny, last year I was screaming for a trade of Quintana for Castro + Altuve. Never would have though a year later that Altuve would be the headliner of that deal.

 

No thanks on that trade

[2nd_city_saint787]

I'd be extremely iffy on trading for Castro if the Astros don't offer a big discount.

 

Here's a fangraphs article from last year that predicted his regression. http://www.fangraphs.com/community/the-cur...f-jason-castro/ ...They of course were spot on.

 

He's played "significant" time in 4 seasons. 3 of the 4 were bad.

 

He's more than likely an upgrade, but enough to sacrifice a few useful pieces.

 

Highest I'd go for him is something like Beck and a few no bodies.

[Chicago White Sox]

And castro had a BABIP of .350 in his career year; .294 last year. Neither of these guys is trustworthy. Castro's only 6 months younger.

That's fine, but check his K% & BB% rates before last season. Much superior to anything Flowers has put up for an extended period of time. I think he's much more trustworthy than Flowers.

 

And quite frankly, Grandal is the guy I really want. Again, I wouldn't give up a top 6 prospect for either guy, but if a package of B prospects could get huge deal then I would bite on either guy as long it didn't prevent us from getting am OF & DH.

[BlackSox13]

Yeah, I just don't see Castro as enough of an upgrade over Flowers considering there are bigger holes to fill. If indeed the Astros asking price is " high " then the Astros can have him. Castro regressed in 2014 while Flowers made progress, I'm fine with Flowers for now unless the Padres make Grandal available for a decent price.

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Yeah, I just don't see Castro as enough of an upgrade over Flowers considering there are bigger holes to fill. If indeed the Astros asking price is " high " then the Astros can have him. Castro regressed in 2014 while Flowers made progress, I'm fine with Flowers for now unless the Padres make Grandal available for a decent price.

Where did Flowers make progress exactly? His K%, BB%, & ISO last year were all near his all-time lows in those stats.