Whisox05 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 11:22 AM) What? No it wasn't. Scott Linebrink signed a 4 year, $19 million deal prior to the 2008 season and Dotel signed for 2 years and $11 million. It was a risky deal because it was a middle reliever. Crain's ERAs in the 4 years prior to signing with the Sox: 2007: 5.51 2008: 3.59 2009: 4.70 2010: 3.04 Tho you have to love the 2 and half ish years the sox got of crain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:35 PM) Tho you have to love the 2 and half ish years the sox got of crain. Right, exactly. You acquire relievers when you want them for like two years. Which, by the way, Crain BARELY reached. He was injured for the last three months of his time with us. And the Twins sure didn't like THEIR two years with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 11:35 AM) Tho you have to love the 2 and half ish years the sox got of crain. Yeah, I have no problem if they make a signing similar to the one they made for Jesse Crain. Basically, for Andrew Miller to justify the cost of his free agent contract, he's going to have to pitch like Jesse Crain did for the White Sox, but he'll have to do it all 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 11:00 AM) 7 Scott linebrink really should have never been signed in the first place. His 3.55 era with Milwaukee was the best in 3 years and that's was being traded to them in the season. He was also a primarily nl guy before the sox signed him. The one year of belisario and downs is why the bullpen sucked so bad. Those buy low guys with chance of high upside killed us last year. Paulino, Cleto, Boggs, Veal etc. I hate telling half of the story. Noesi was also a buy low guy. So was Jermaine Dye, Esteban Loiaza, Adam Eaton, Conor Gillaspie, and many others. Just because some don't work out, that doesn't mean you never do it again. We had buy high guys that also killed us. Should we never sign a free agent again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:05 PM) I hate telling half of the story. Noesi was also a buy low guy. So was Jermaine Dye, Esteban Loiaza, Adam Eaton, Conor Gillaspie, and many others. Just because some don't work out, that doesn't mean you never do it again. We had buy high guys that also killed us. Should we never sign a free agent again? Yes you can bargain shop sometimes but if you fully want to compete the you have to spend some money. Let's remember the sox kinda bargain shopped in 04 for the 05 season and nobody would have thought they would win the world series. It took alot to go right for them to win.This past year they had alot of payroll already so they went for the buy low guys. Eaton and gillaspie where on teams that had players blocking them so they were more expendable. Noesi was a take what you can get cause the sox desperately needed starting pitcher after losing 3 starters. They have the money to spend to get some better quality this year. I don't have a problem with getting low buy with high upside but If the sox go buy low route like rasmus, morales, Hammel, Mccarthy or Masterson this year then I won't be happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:32 PM) Yes you can bargain shop sometimes but if you fully want to compete the you have to spend some money. Let's remember the sox kinda bargain shopped in 04 for the 05 season and nobody would have thought they would win the world series. It took alot to go right for them to win.This past year they had alot of payroll already so they went for the buy low guys. Eaton and gillaspie where on teams that had players blocking them so they were more expendable. Noesi was a take what you can get cause the sox desperately needed starting pitcher after losing 3 starters. They have the money to spend to get some better quality this year. I don't have a problem with getting low buy with high upside but If the sox go buy low route like rasmus, morales, Hammel, Mccarthy or Masterson this year then I won't be happy The Sox aren't going to be in on Rasmus anyways, but if they signed Morales, Hammel, McCarthy, or Masterson, I don't know why you'd be unhappy. Morales seems like a perfect buy low candidate who could bounce back in a big way, and I love the idea of acquiring Hammel or McCarthy. If they don't work, it's not going to hurt as much as signing a guy like Scherzer is going to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:32 PM) Yes you can bargain shop sometimes but if you fully want to compete the you have to spend some money. Let's remember the sox kinda bargain shopped in 04 for the 05 season and nobody would have thought they would win the world series. It took alot to go right for them to win.This past year they had alot of payroll already so they went for the buy low guys. Eaton and gillaspie where on teams that had players blocking them so they were more expendable. Noesi was a take what you can get cause the sox desperately needed starting pitcher after losing 3 starters. They have the money to spend to get some better quality this year. I don't have a problem with getting low buy with high upside but If the sox go buy low route like rasmus, morales, Hammel, Mccarthy or Masterson this year then I won't be happy How many teams have been able to win by shopping in the luxury aisle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:37 PM) The Sox aren't going to be in on Rasmus anyways, but if they signed Morales, Hammel, McCarthy, or Masterson, I don't know why you'd be unhappy. Morales seems like a perfect buy low candidate who could bounce back in a big way, and I love the idea of acquiring Hammel or McCarthy. If they don't work, it's not going to hurt as much as signing a guy like Scherzer is going to. For the sox to actually be winning this year morales would have to bounce back big. His number last year were horrible. Granted he signed later but dunn sadly put up some better numbers then him. Brandon Mccarthy made 32 starts which is the most he has ever made in a season. He also hit 200 innings for the first time in his career. His next closes inning pitched previously was 170 and 135. He can't stay healthy. He had a 5.01 era in the national league. He did get better when he came to the yankees but that will probably make his annually cost increase and can you believe he continues to pitch that well. Hammel pitched really well in the nl but got beat up when he came back to the al. Signing those guys will hurt If the sox are supposedly contending and they don't live up to career years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:40 PM) How many teams have been able to win by shopping in the luxury aisle? Not alot but you not going to need to totally shop in the luxury aisle. If you look at the Giants and royals who went to the world series they had alot of in house talent. Other players they acquired through with good prospects. Also signed by spending some money to get players. The sox don't have the luxury of a good deep farm system to acquire the likes of hunter pence or james shields. So they go route of trying to target talent through smarter moves like getting Eaton or davidson. Also have have try to spend wisely cause of the higher payroll with players they were stuck with. Now the have a chance to spend but be smart about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:54 PM) For the sox to actually be winning this year morales would have to bounce back big. His number last year were horrible. Granted he signed later but dunn sadly put up some better numbers then him. Brandon Mccarthy made 32 starts which is the most he has ever made in a season. He also hit 200 innings for the first time in his career. His next closes inning pitched previously was 170 and 135. He can't stay healthy. He had a 5.01 era in the national league. He did get better when he came to the yankees but that will probably make his annually cost increase and can you believe he continues to pitch that well. Hammel pitched really well in the nl but got beat up when he came back to the al. Signing those guys will hurt If the sox are supposedly contending and they don't live up to career years. OK, you still haven't said why you'd be unhappy. You're basically pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of these players, all of which I am quite aware (though Hammel and McCarthy are perfectly capable starting pitchers having pitched well in both the AL and NL in their past). What if McCarthy was signed to a 2 year, $20 million deal? You'd be unhappy with that? Because I'd call that one of the steals of the offseason if it happened. And if you signed Hammel to a 1 year, $8 million deal, you'd be unhappy? I'd say that's a perfect acceptable move and if it bombs, then there's no long-term risk whatsoever. If the Sox gave Morales an incentive-laden, 1 year, $5 million deal? I'd love to have him act as essentially the full time DH for the Sox. I don't see them winning the division quite yet this year unless a lot of things broke right for them, so taking chances on players like that is a perfectly suitable and acceptable philosophy for the 2015 White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:54 PM) For the sox to actually be winning this year morales would have to bounce back big. His number last year were horrible. Granted he signed later but dunn sadly put up some better numbers then him. Brandon Mccarthy made 32 starts which is the most he has ever made in a season. He also hit 200 innings for the first time in his career. His next closes inning pitched previously was 170 and 135. He can't stay healthy. He had a 5.01 era in the national league. He did get better when he came to the yankees but that will probably make his annually cost increase and can you believe he continues to pitch that well. Hammel pitched really well in the nl but got beat up when he came back to the al. Signing those guys will hurt If the sox are supposedly contending and they don't live up to career years. QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 01:10 PM) Not alot but you not going to need to totally shop in the luxury aisle. If you look at the Giants and royals who went to the world series they had alot of in house talent. Other players they acquired through with good prospects. Also signed by spending some money to get players. The sox don't have the luxury of a good deep farm system to acquire the likes of hunter pence or james shields. So they go route of trying to target talent through smarter moves like getting Eaton or davidson. Also have have try to spend wisely cause of the higher payroll with players they were stuck with. Now the have a chance to spend but be smart about it. You are essentially arguing against yourself in these two posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 01:15 PM) You are essentially arguing against yourself in these two posts. You may think that but I'm not. Yes I would be unhappy to have Mccarthy beacuse he can't stay healthy. Would you be happy with a 4 plus era and say 20 starts with about 150 innings or less. I would be unhappy with Hammel cause he generally has a 4 plus era and only tops out of 177 innings. So say you have sale and quintana with one of Hammel/Mccarthy , noesi and danks. Would you be happy with 3 starters with 4 plus eras. Then you have a dh of morales who I would be unhappy with cause unless he can revert back has dunn like numbers last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:35 PM) Would you be happy with a 4 plus era and say 20 starts with about 150 innings or less. It depends on what we're paying for that. IMO, someone who is likely to give McCarthy might have priced himself out of that realm by pitching very well in 2014 and putting up 200 innings, but a righty with a good chance at throwing 100-150 innings and maybe being pretty good at it seems like a perfect fit to me. We already know who the insurance policy is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:10 PM) Not alot but you not going to need to totally shop in the luxury aisle. If you look at the Giants and royals who went to the world series they had alot of in house talent. Other players they acquired through with good prospects. Also signed by spending some money to get players. The sox don't have the luxury of a good deep farm system to acquire the likes of hunter pence or james shields. So they go route of trying to target talent through smarter moves like getting Eaton or davidson. Also have have try to spend wisely cause of the higher payroll with players they were stuck with. Now the have a chance to spend but be smart about it. This is not consistent with signing relievers to long-term contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 01:43 PM) It depends on what we're paying for that. IMO, someone who is likely to give McCarthy might have priced himself out of that realm by pitching very well in 2014 and putting up 200 innings, but a righty with a good chance at throwing 100-150 innings and maybe being pretty good at it seems like a perfect fit to me. We already know who the insurance policy is! Mccarthy last signed a 2 yr/18 million deal with the dbacks. He probably will get a bump in salary due to salvaging this year with increased starts, innings and better era. The tricky part is what the sox plan to do with rodon. Does he stay in the minors all year. Does he stay in the minors and then come up but limit his innings to not overuse him. Does he pitch out of the pen all year which then have to stretch him out next to put him in the rotation and maybe have to limit his innings. Does go straight to the rotation next year but then limit his innings or shut him down to rest him at the end of the year. The issue I want to stay away with is having a bunch of 4 plus eras in the rotation as possible. Edited November 17, 2014 by WhiteSoxLifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 01:43 PM) This is not consistent with signing relievers to long-term contracts. The Sox are not going to go out and sign a bunch of relievers for long term contracts. They would probably do it for miller cause they haven't had a dominant left hander who is not just a specialist since thornton when he was good. Sometimes when there is a major necessity you have to pay up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:10 PM) The Sox are not going to go out and sign a bunch of relievers for long term contracts. They would probably do it for miller cause they haven't had a dominant left hander who is not just a specialist since thornton when he was good. Sometimes when there is a major necessity you have to pay up. If they would not go out and sign a bunch of relievers to long term contracts, then they aren't going to ultimately do it for Miller either. The most I think they've ever spent on a reliever on the free agent market was the $5.5 mill AAV they gave to Dotel. I strongly, strongly doubt they'll ultimately sign Andrew Miller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:32 PM) If they would not go out and sign a bunch of relievers to long term contracts, then they aren't going to ultimately do it for Miller either. The most I think they've ever spent on a reliever on the free agent market was the $5.5 mill AAV they gave to Dotel. I strongly, strongly doubt they'll ultimately sign Andrew Miller. Just because they didn't spend more on a reliever before doesn't mean they still wont. Did you honestly think they would shell out the money and years to a player like abreu who never played in the mlb. It was a bigger risk for abreu then for a reliever like miller. Edited November 17, 2014 by WhiteSoxLifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:39 PM) Just because they didn't spend more on a reliever before doesn't they still wont. Did you honestly think they would shell out the money and years to a player like abreu who never played in the mlb. It was a bigger risk for abreu then for a reliever like miller. The difference is the White Sox have both spent big in Cuba, and they have spent big on middle of the order hitters in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:41 PM) The difference is the White Sox have both spent big in Cuba, and they have spent big on middle of the order hitters in the past. Up until they signed Dunn, then Abreu, the last time the White Sox spent more than $20 million on another team's free agent was in December of 1996. Albert Belle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:39 PM) Just because they didn't spend more on a reliever before doesn't mean they still wont. Did you honestly think they would shell out the money and years to a player like abreu who never played in the mlb. It was a bigger risk for abreu then for a reliever like miller. Yes I did. I see them having problems spending $10 million a year on a reliever. They barely want to spend $10 million on a starting pitcher, why would they give that kind of guarantee to a bullpen pitcher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:45 PM) Up until they signed Dunn, then Abreu, the last time the White Sox spent more than $20 million on another team's free agent was in December of 1996. Albert Belle. That conveniently ignores the contracts given to guys like Magglio and Konerko. The Sox haven't given ANY reliever (internal or external) a contract anywhere near what Andrew Miller is looking for. That is a HUGE difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:57 PM) That conveniently ignores the contracts given to guys like Magglio and Konerko. The Sox haven't given ANY reliever (internal or external) a contract anywhere near what Andrew Miller is looking for. That is a HUGE difference. To be fair, it does show how little they care to spend on free agents. That is not a bad thing whatsoever. Unless there are special circumstances, spending on free agents usually ends up biting teams in the ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:41 PM) The difference is the White Sox have both spent big in Cuba, and they have spent big on middle of the order hitters in the past. Sox have never spent big on Cuban players coming directly from Cuba before abreu. Yes they spent big on middle of the order bats before but last time they did was dunn and already saw what he was like when they signed abreu to know to be weary of that type of contract. Edited November 17, 2014 by WhiteSoxLifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) Wouldn't it be said they don't normally spend big on starters before they signed danks to his extension. Edited November 17, 2014 by WhiteSoxLifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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