white sox heavily in the left handed relief market

[witesoxfan]

Sox have never spent big on Cuban players coming directly from Cuba before abreu. Yes thy spent big on middle of the order bats before but last time they did was dunn and already saw what he was like when the signed abreu to know to be wary of that type of contract.

 

The White Sox guaranteed Jose Abreu more money in a single contract than anybody else in franchise history. I don't see how that's indicative of them suddenly spending $10+ mill a year on a reliever.

[Dick Allen]

That conveniently ignores the contracts given to guys like Magglio and Konerko. The Sox haven't given ANY reliever (internal or external) a contract anywhere near what Andrew Miller is looking for. That is a HUGE difference.

But it's the price of poker. Free agents get more money. Paulie took a little discount, but might not have had they not just won the WS. Guys are getting more expensive. If you want them you are going to have to pay or develop them just to lose them. They never gave anyone what the gave Abreu and he had never played one game in the major leagues.

 

If they aren't willing to pay these prices, they won't get these players. It doesn't even make sense to speak with them. If they are engaged with Miller, I would think they are in the ballpark money-wise.

[southsider2k5]

But it's the price of poker. Free agents get more money. Paulie took a little discount, but might not have had they not just won the WS. Guys are getting more expensive. If you want them you are going to have to pay or develop them just to lose them. They never gave anyone what the gave Abreu and he had never played one game in the major leagues.

 

If they aren't willing to pay these prices, they won't get these players. It doesn't even make sense to speak with them. If they are engaged with Miller, I would think they are in the ballpark money-wise.

 

I don't know how the rest of it is even relevant, but the bottom line is the Sox have a history here to read. They have always been able to pay their middle of the order hitters a lot of money, and if they can't find one, they will get one off of the free agent market.

 

Relief pitching, they have always tried to do on the cheap. I see no compelling reason to believe the Sox will sign Andrew Miller, even if they have met with him or inquired about him.

[Whisox05]

The White Sox guaranteed Jose Abreu more money in a single contract than anybody else in franchise history. I don't see how that's indicative of them suddenly spending $10+ mill a year on a reliever.

 

So if they gave they gave that much money to a player that was the most in franchise history then what would stop them from giving 10 million a year to a reliever.

[Dick Allen]

I don't know how the rest of it is even relevant, but the bottom line is the Sox have a history here to read. They have always been able to pay their middle of the order hitters a lot of money, and if they can't find one, they will get one off of the free agent market.

 

Relief pitching, they have always tried to do on the cheap. I see no compelling reason to believe the Sox will sign Andrew Miller, even if they have met with him or inquired about him.

The last time the bullpen was this bad was 2007. Although not as expensive as Miller, Linebrink and Dotel weren't exactly cheap for those years. KW signed them. KW has already announced he is done with rebuilding.

 

The team friendly contracts they signed their best players to , allow them to spend a little more in other places. Whether it is Miller or not, there is probably going to be additions that they financially have never done before.

[witesoxfan]

But it's the price of poker. Free agents get more money. Paulie took a little discount, but might not have had they not just won the WS. Guys are getting more expensive. If you want them you are going to have to pay or develop them just to lose them. They never gave anyone what the gave Abreu and he had never played one game in the major leagues.

 

If they aren't willing to pay these prices, they won't get these players. It doesn't even make sense to speak with them. If they are engaged with Miller, I would think they are in the ballpark money-wise.

 

I don't think that's necessarily true. They may be willing to give more than most, but when push comes to shove, we'll see where they're at. As of right now, it's no surprise that White Sox have interest in the best lefty on the market after they had an absolutely terrible bullpen last year. Whether they spend the requisite money has to yet to be seen. They may think he'll be worth $8 million a year, but I don't think that's going to get him.

 

So if they gave they gave that much money to a player that was the most in franchise history then what would stop them from giving 10 million a year to a reliever.

 

Because the marginal utility of a reliever is not that high. The very most I think you'd see a reliever really worth, including context, is 4-5 games worth. If the Sox were a true talent 75 win team last year (and they cut some wins at the end to get an extended look at young players), then Andrew Miller really puts them at about .500, and you have to make up those other wins elsewhere. And that's at the very most. If he goes back to being a 1-1.5 WAR player, he's not worth it for the Sox as they are currently constructed and it's very possible he could turn into an albatross at that point in time.

 

When a guy is not the final piece of the puzzle - and Andrew Miller is definitely not the final piece of the puzzle - then you should stick with your limit, which I am guessing is around $8 mill per year for the White Sox. If that gets him, awesome, if not, then forget about it.

[Whisox05]

The sox did give Jenks 7.5 million 2010. By today's standards that would be alot more

[AlSoxfan]

I don't know how the rest of it is even relevant, but the bottom line is the Sox have a history here to read. They have always been able to pay their middle of the order hitters a lot of money, and if they can't find one, they will get one off of the free agent market.

 

Relief pitching, they have always tried to do on the cheap. I see no compelling reason to believe the Sox will sign Andrew Miller, even if they have met with him or inquired about him.

I think or hope that after last yr. they are compelled to at least rethink about spending money on a bullpen. The price of tea has gone up. 2 of the better bullpens in baseball were in the WS last yr. We also lack starting pitching that can go more than 5 or 6 innings. Somethings gotta give if we really want to compete

[witesoxfan]

I think or hope that after last yr. they are compelled to at least rethink about spending money on a bullpen. The price of tea has gone up. 2 of the better bullpens in baseball were in the WS last yr. We also lack starting pitching that can go more than 5 or 6 innings. Somethings gotta give if we really want to compete

 

The Sox just lack quality starting pitching depth. If they could bring in a starter (and somehow get rid of Danks), I think a top 7 or so of Sale, Quintana, [FA], Noesi, Rodon, Carroll, and Beck is perfectly adequate, and they have high upside options in guys like Montas and Danish on the way too.

[Whisox05]

The Sox just lack quality starting pitching depth. If they could bring in a starter (and somehow get rid of Danks), I think a top 7 or so of Sale, Quintana, [FA], Noesi, Rodon, Carroll, and Beck is perfectly adequate, and they have high upside options in guys like Montas and Danish on the way too.

 

Yes the sox do lack starting pitching depth at this time. I did say before that if the sox pitching staff had to be good from starting to bullpen for the team to compete. The problem that I stated before is we don't know whats in store for rodon. Is he starting in the minors or at the major league level. If he starts at the majors and he pitches well then do the sox shut him down towards the end of the season to rest him. If he starts in the minors does he stay there all year or come up later. Im honestly counting Rodon to be a further down option right now for the rotation. If that's the case and the sox magically trade Danks then you have sale, Quintana, open spot, open spot and Noesi. if you sign a free agent then you still need to fill the 4th spot. do you go with Bassitt or someone else. I don't want to see Carroll or Rienzo in the rotation unless its a spot start. Carroll put up a 5.40 era starting last year and Rienzo with a 5.97. Those 2 shouldn't see significant time in the rotation and if they do then you have bigger problems. Beck may still need time in Charlotte. Danish is only in winston-salem. Unless hes fully ready he will still be probably needing to go to Birmingham and Charlotte. Montas still needs to work on control and he is still in winston-salem.

 

[witesoxfan]

Yes the sox do lack starting pitching depth at this time. I did say before that if the sox pitching staff had to be good from starting to bullpen for the team to compete. The problem that I stated before is we don't know whats in store for rodon. Is he starting in the minors or at the major league level. If he starts at the majors and he pitches well then do the sox shut him down towards the end of the season to rest him. If he starts in the minors does he stay there all year or come up later. Im honestly counting Rodon to be a further down option right now for the rotation. If that's the case and the sox magically trade Danks then you have sale, Quintana, open spot, open spot and Noesi. if you sign a free agent then you still need to fill the 4th spot. do you go with Bassitt or someone else. I don't want to see Carroll or Rienzo in the rotation unless its a spot start. Carroll put up a 5.40 era starting last year and Rienzo with a 5.97. Those 2 shouldn't see significant time in the rotation and if they do then you have bigger problems. Beck may still need time in Charlotte. Danish is only in winston-salem. Unless hes fully ready he will still be probably needing to go to Birmingham and Charlotte. Montas still needs to work on control and he is still in winston-salem.

 

The Sox will likely treat Rodon like they do all of their young starting pitchers - conservatively, but not shying away from a big innings jump. He will not start the year with the White Sox.

 

Regardless, bringing in a starting pitcher on a short-term deal makes a ton of sense.

[caulfield12]

Barring any major surprises (spending $10-12 million per year on a 3/4 guy), there's little to lose giving Bassit a shot at starting...or even Beck.

 

We already know what Carroll's going to give as a starter, that won't change.

 

Of course, fans wanting to compete NOW aren't going to be encouraged by any of those three names being anywhere near the rotation.

 

 

Plus, Bassit could also end up taking Webb's place in the bullpen...or Sanburn, if he has a great spring in AZ.

[Balta1701]

Barring any major surprises (spending $10-12 million per year on a 3/4 guy), there's little to lose giving Bassit a shot at starting...or even Beck.

There's a strong case to be made that both of those guys could get very useful time in the minors next year and that there's not "little to lose" in either case. Beck has 7 starts at AAA. Bassitt has 110 innings above A ball. Yes, calling guys up who just arrived at AA is a thing the White Sox do, but there's reason to think both of those guys should have plenty of stuff to work on next year.

[caulfield12]

There's a strong case to be made that both of those guys could get very useful time in the minors next year and that there's not "little to lose" in either case. Beck has 7 starts at AAA. Bassitt has 110 innings above A ball. Yes, calling guys up who just arrived at AA is a thing the White Sox do, but there's reason to think both of those guys should have plenty of stuff to work on next year.

 

 

 

 

I meant that only in the sense the White Sox probably value both of those guys failing/falling on their faces and ending up in the pen more than giving $48 million over 4 years to Erwin Santana to cover the mid-rotation spot. Clearly, they're going to be more careful with Rodon, and probably Montas and Danish (to a lesser extent).

 

Maybe they will surprise us all and open up the wallets on someone like Volquez. But probably not.

Edited November 17, 2014 by caulfield12

[Whisox05]

Barring any major surprises (spending $10-12 million per year on a 3/4 guy), there's little to lose giving Bassit a shot at starting...or even Beck.

 

We already know what Carroll's going to give as a starter, that won't change.

 

Of course, fans wanting to compete NOW aren't going to be encouraged by any of those three names being anywhere near the rotation.

 

 

Plus, Bassit could also end up taking Webb's place in the bullpen...or Sanburn, if he has a great spring in AZ.

 

I would say webb should get another shot at the bullpen. Let him see how he does in spring training. His stats last year weren't good but I'm giving him the benefit of doubt. lets remember he lost him mom in spring training and sure that was on him mind all year. also sanburn just reached A+ ball. probably going to need more time in the minors.

 

There's a strong case to be made that both of those guys could get very useful time in the minors next year and that there's not "little to lose" in either case. Beck has 7 starts at AAA. Bassitt has 110 innings above A ball. Yes, calling guys up who just arrived at AA is a thing the White Sox do, but there's reason to think both of those guys should have plenty of stuff to work on next year.

 

Honestly bassitt is probably ready for a shot at least of the bullpen. He pitched in the afl and had 6 appearances over 13 innings with a .69 era. He had 22 strikeouts and .93 whip. pretty damn good against some of the best prospect in baseball.

Edited November 18, 2014 by WhiteSoxLifer