GreenSox Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) There's nothing to lament here. The Sox have a rotation that includes Carroll, Noesi and Danks. What good young pitcher(s) with years of team control did yall want the Sox to trade for 1 year of Heyward? Quintana and Danish for Heyward and the middle reliever? Or maybe Montas and Danish for Heyward by himself? Teams like the Cards can trade for rents. Teams like the Sox cannot (or at least should not). Edited November 17, 2014 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 What good young pitcher did the Cardinals trade for Heyward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 The rich get richer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlSoxfan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:46 PM) Well this stinks. My thoughts as well..I had hopes of us cutting a deal with the Braves for Heyward. Maybe next yr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (Baron @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:57 PM) What good young pitcher did the Cardinals trade for Heyward? They traded two. Miller has TOR stuff if, he is still young and really just had a bad season which happens to young guys and Tyrell Jenkins who has the stuff to be a #2 or 3. Really great trade for the Braves getting two really high ceiling rotation guys for one season of a mediocre offensive OF and an overpriced RP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 01:12 PM) They traded two. Miller has TOR stuff if, he is still young and really just had a bad season which happens to young guys and Tyrell Jenkins who has the stuff to be a #2 or 3. Really great trade for the Braves getting two really high ceiling rotation guys for one season of a mediocre offensive OF and an overpriced RP. It was a great trade for the Braves. They dealt him to someone who had the depth and need to overpay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 01:12 PM) They traded two. Miller has TOR stuff if, he is still young and really just had a bad season which happens to young guys and Tyrell Jenkins who has the stuff to be a #2 or 3. Really great trade for the Braves getting two really high ceiling rotation guys for one season of a mediocre offensive OF and an overpriced RP. Heyward is not a mediocre offensive outfielder and he is a phenomenal defensive outfielder. Otherwise, I won't argue the remainder - I disagree but not to the point that I think you're wrong or mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:46 PM) That's why I mentioned Q. Q for Piscotty and a few of the Cards young starters the Cards don't have room for makes more sense than say for example, Bassitt for Piscotty. What do the Cards need with Bassitt? To us Bassitt is a good young talent to have but to the Cards, not so much. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating trading Q and the above was just thrown out there as an example but I just don't see how the Sox could get a young talent like Piscotty from the Cards. Hopefully I'm under estimating Hahn's creativeness. A trade for Piscotty and the signing of Melky would make the Sox outfield look so much better defensively and offensively. I know, I'm dreaming. Maybe the Cards don't feel Piscotty has much of a future with them and would be willing to deal him for minor league depth elsewhere. They did just block his path to the majors again, and Holliday is signed through at least 2016. Overall though I agree, the Sox and Cards don't match up well for a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 01:20 PM) Maybe the Cards don't feel Piscotty has much of a future with them and would be willing to deal him for minor league depth elsewhere. They did just block his path to the majors again, and Holliday is signed through at least 2016. Overall though I agree, the Sox and Cards don't match up well for a trade. The Cards will hold on to him until they either need to make a move to bolster the ML roster or get blown away with an offer, they aren't going to move anybody just because they don't have a clear path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrlesque Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 01:28 PM) The Cards will hold on to him until they either need to make a move to bolster the ML roster or get blown away with an offer, they aren't going to move anybody just because they don't have a clear path. Agreed. It's mostly wishful thinking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 01:12 PM) They traded two. Miller has TOR stuff if, he is still young and really just had a bad season which happens to young guys and Tyrell Jenkins who has the stuff to be a #2 or 3. Really great trade for the Braves getting two really high ceiling rotation guys for one season of a mediocre offensive OF and an overpriced RP. Yeah Miller...the young pitcher with conditioning problems and a complete mental breakdown. Yeah the Cardinals are really going to regret getting an accumulated 24 WAR OF who is 25 years old. Edited November 17, 2014 by Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (Baron @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 01:33 PM) Yeah Miller...the young pitcher with conditioning problems and a complete mental breakdown. Yeah the Cardinals are really going to regret getting an accumulated 24 WAR OF who is 25 years old. Miller is pretty much in the same spot the Greinke was at the same age. Those are the growing pains that you have to go through sometimes with young players before they are fully developed. Time will tell what happens, but I definitely don't like the trade for the Cardinals, especially giving up 11 years of control for basically two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Baron @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 01:33 PM) Yeah the Cardinals are really going to regret getting an accumulated 24 WAR OF who is 25 years old. They are not getting an accumulated 24 WAR. They are getting ONE season of the future WAR. Sox are in no position to make such a move. Edited November 17, 2014 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Pretty even trade, assuming Heyward is a 5-win player again and Miller bounces back to be a 1.5 win or so pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 12:47 PM) Miller was a top 10 prospect no so long ago and still has done a decent job on the major league level and is controlled for several more years. I don't understand why some think this is a steal. The Braves usually don't make really bad trades. Are you sure about that? didn't they trade Adam Wainwright to the Cards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 02:11 PM) Are you sure about that? didn't they trade Adam Wainwright to the Cards? For one year of JD Drew who was awesome as a Brave. One season, 8.6 WAR. That is an MVP-type year. That trade was about the exact opposite of this one. In the long run, I don't think the Braves will be getting the fleecing on this trade some think. For a message board that loves a lot of everyone's crap, Shelby Miller sure does get written off pretty quickly. Edited November 17, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I think one aspect to keep in mind is years of control. The Braves traded one year of Heyward/ two years of Walden for four years of Miller and at least six years of Jenkins. I think both teams did well in trading from their strengths to help fill in their weaknesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) The Cards still have insurance for Heyward going FA in Piscotty and Grichuk. (Let's also keep in mind most Cards fans wanted to dump Jay a year ago before he rebounded and Craig sank in 2015). They're not going to just give those guys away. It's a "win now" move for the Cardinals, whereas it's a "hope for the best/upside" play for the Braves, who are dealing with so many injuries in their rotation and the FA loss of Erwin Santana, so they pretty much needed a younger pitcher who would be around long/er term. Maybe they'll try to convert A.Vizcaino (Cubs) into a starter, although he's probably ticketed for the pen. If the Braves are still trying to sell off BJ Upton and Gattis to the highest bidders, that's when you'll know it's a true rebuild down there (Freeman as well). I think they believe with this move they can be competitive enough for 2015 and wait for their starters to bounce back in the 2nd half/2016. Edited November 17, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/ber...40d078a914.html Two takes from StL Post Dispatch columnists.... http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jef...30abc61fe3.html Seems they will hold on to Piscotty and Grichuk (platoon partner for Jay and Heyward)...with Bourjos on the way out. Don't know if Piscotty can hit for enough power and Grichuk for a high enough average. Comps to Wainright/JD Drew deal back in the day. Cardinals apparently weren't interested in any of the FA outfield options. Edited November 18, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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