Sox sign Melky Cabrera

[BigFinn]

You're acting like we traded our whole farm and have tied up our entire future payroll with this offseason. Yes we're going for it in '15 but if we don't make the playoffs it's not like we've blown the whole rebuild. We've traded away maybe one guy that was on the famous "3 year board" as a starter in Semien. Bassitt was going to be a future reliever here, Phegley is nothing and Ravelo is completely blocked in our organization. And the future money we added this offseason was money we were going to have to spend to be a competitive team from '16 going forward anyways. All this offseason has done is make us more competitive in 2015, it hasn't killed 2016 and beyond at all.

I've got a feeling that Billy Beane looks at Josh Phegley and sees Josh Donaldson II. Both started their professional careers as catchers. Both were better hitters than receivers. I wouldn't be surprised if Beane gives Phegley a third baseman's mitt, sends Phegley to AAA Nashville, tells him he'll be up in a few months, and sells off Brett Lawrie to the highest bidder come the July 31 trade deadline. Phegley could come up later this summer and surprise quite a few people.

 

Still and all, the Sox one year of Samardzija, a top 15 pitcher MLB pitcher, and a window of opportunity to sign him from now until next November.

 

As for signing Melky Cabrera, there is a theory that if you're going to make a commitment to one free agent attached to a compensation pick, you might as well go all in. The Cubs did that in the 2005-6 off-season (the 2006 draft was the year that they picked Samardzija in the 5th round and signed him to a first round contract). The Cubs gave up their 2nd round pick when they signed Bobby Howry (Cleveland got that pick). They gave up their 3rd round pick when they signed Scott Eyre (this sounds like they wanted to put the White Sox 2000 bullpen back together!)(San Francisco got that pick). They gave up their 4th round pick when they signed Jacque Jones (the Twinkies got that pick). Those were the days before picks had slotted monetary values, and teams were faced with penalties for exceeding their overall amateur draft spending. So the Cubs could afford to bundle the money they would have spent on those picks and offer Samardzija 1st round money.

 

Every time the Sox sign a free agent with a compensation pick attached, like Melky Cabrera, we lose the draft pick and the slotted money. But we would still get Melky Cabrera. My concern about Cabrera is how dependent is he on the use of PEDs to be a successful player? He was caught using in 2012. If you pull out his 2012 numbers from his career stats, his slash line is .279/.330/.404. That looks like a league average ballplayer to me. Four years at $14M per year is a lot of money for league average production. Nori Aoki has just about the same level of production without the PED suspicions, the high-price/long-length contract, and the loss of the draft choice. But I don't know who else is out there.

[chitownsportsfan]

I've got a feeling that Billy Beane looks at Josh Phegley and sees Josh Donaldson II. Both started their professional careers as catchers. Both were better hitters than receivers. I wouldn't be surprised if Beane gives Phegley a third baseman's mitt, sends Phegley to AAA Nashville, tells him he'll be up in a few months, and sells off Brett Lawrie to the highest bidder come the July 31 trade deadline. Phegley could come up later this summer and surprise quite a few people.

 

Still and all, the Sox one year of Samardzija, a top 15 pitcher MLB pitcher, and a window of opportunity to sign him from now until next November.

 

As for signing Melky Cabrera, there is a theory that if you're going to make a commitment to one free agent attached to a compensation pick, you might as well go all in. The Cubs did that in the 2005-6 off-season (the 2006 draft was the year that they picked Samardzija in the 5th round and signed him to a first round contract). The Cubs gave up their 2nd round pick when they signed Bobby Howry (Cleveland got that pick). They gave up their 3rd round pick when they signed Scott Eyre (this sounds like they wanted to put the White Sox 2000 bullpen back together!)(San Francisco got that pick). They gave up their 4th round pick when they signed Jacque Jones (the Twinkies got that pick). Those were the days before picks had slotted monetary values, and teams were faced with penalties for exceeding their overall amateur draft spending. So the Cubs could afford to bundle the money they would have spent on those picks and offer Samardzija 1st round money.

 

Every time the Sox sign a free agent with a compensation pick attached, like Melky Cabrera, we lose the draft pick and the slotted money. But we would still get Melky Cabrera. My concern about Cabrera is how dependent is he on the use of PEDs to be a successful player? He was caught using in 2012. If you pull out his 2012 numbers from his career stats, his slash line is .279/.330/.404. That looks like a league average ballplayer to me. Four years at $14M per year is a lot of money for league average production. Nori Aoki has just about the same level of production without the PED suspicions, the high-price/long-length contract, and the loss of the draft choice. But I don't know who else is out there.

 

Also, you know the 2005 team had a lot of "league average ballplayers", right? You need some to go along with the stars. What the Sox currently have is a replacement level LF. An average LF would be a huge upgrade.

Edited December 13, 2014 by chitownsportsfan

[GreenSox]

We just traded for a guy on a 1 year deal likely to sign a 9 figure deal next offseason that we may not want to pay.

 

We better be caring 100% about the White Sox making the playoffs this year. Make the playoffs this year and then pick up the pieces next offseason. We already made that call. We can think long term as a secondary priority, but we absolutely have to win 88 games this year.

Sox put themselves in a position to be competitive. That's all. They didn't mortgage the future, nor should we, and I certainly hope we don't. There's no reason to.

You can't snap your fingers on a 73 win team, make a bunch of moves and say "We're winning the world series this year." At least not this 73 win team which was a legitimate 73 win team or thereabouts (maybe could have won 78 had without the short term injuries that it had). It's not like anyone had an inexplicable off year who is likely to bounce back.

Sure they signed a 1 year player; I wouldn't have done it, but they also didn't give up any key pieces for today or tomorrow to do so.

And if this team really did go all in for 1 year, that's exactly what it would be...it would be back to sub 80 wins in 2016.

[BigFinn]

Also, you know the 2005 team had a lot of "league average ballplayers", right? You need some to go along with the stars. What the Sox currently have is a replacement level LF. An average LF would be a huge upgrade.

Well said. Cabrera would be an improvement both offensively and defensively. Aoki would also be an improvement. Colby Rasmus would be an improvement defensively, but he comes with a boatload of baggage. Andre Ethier and Carl Crawford have huge contracts and declining skills. We might be looking for someone with a year to go before free-agency while we wait for Courtney Hawkins, Trayce Thompson, or Matt Davidson to step up. Thinking about the possibilities makes my head spin.

[Balta1701]

Sox put themselves in a position to be competitive. That's all. They didn't mortgage the future, nor should we, and I certainly hope we don't. There's no reason to.

You can't snap your fingers on a 73 win team, make a bunch of moves and say "We're winning the world series this year." At least not this 73 win team which was a legitimate 73 win team or thereabouts (maybe could have won 78 had without the short term injuries that it had). It's not like anyone had an inexplicable off year who is likely to bounce back.

Sure they signed a 1 year player; I wouldn't have done it, but they also didn't give up any key pieces for today or tomorrow to do so.

And if this team really did go all in for 1 year, that's exactly what it would be...it would be back to sub 80 wins in 2016.

If they don't win the series fine, but they went all-in on being a playoff team on Tuesday of this week. If they lose 81+ games this year and another 1000 tickets/game disappear, do you think they'll have the money to sign Shark to 5/$105?

 

If not, if Samardzija walks as a FA or even is traded at the deadline, where are we in 2016? Rodon present but still early in his career, less money available, still no depth, huge money spent on positions like closer?

 

We absolutely need to go into April with a roster that makes most people say "this is a competitive team this year right now" and we're not there right now. Our bench is very weak, we have several lineup weaknesses and one complete gaping hole that we've spend $4 million on for some reason. This is a riddle we have to solve.

[ptatc]

Also, you know the 2005 team had a lot of "league average ballplayers", right? You need some to go along with the stars. What the Sox currently have is a replacement level LF. An average LF would be a huge upgrade.

What is the difference between league average and a replacement level players?

[LDF]

 

according to JR way of doing business with the sox, the sox has to be

really competitive to bring out the fans. more fans that show up will

bring more money to the sox.

[ptatc]

If they don't win the series fine, but they went all-in on being a playoff team on Tuesday of this week. If they lose 81+ games this year and another 1000 tickets/game disappear, do you think they'll have the money to sign Shark to 5/$105?

 

If not, if Samardzija walks as a FA or even is traded at the deadline, where are we in 2016? Rodon present but still early in his career, less money available, still no depth, huge money spent on positions like closer?

 

We absolutely need to go into April with a roster that makes most people say "this is a competitive team this year right now" and we're not there right now. Our bench is very weak, we have several lineup weaknesses and one complete gaping hole that we've spend $4 million on for some reason. This is a riddle we have to solve.

The Sox are not changing several players. Who do you suggest are the several that they should change?

[LDF]

What is the difference between league average and a replacement level players?

 

an harsh discussion between me and another poster today on the sox need

to get a really good outfielder and at what cost.

 

[Balta1701]

The Sox are not changing several players. Who do you suggest are the several that they should change?

I'm ok with weaknesses at catcher and 3b and 2b if we fix the gaping hole in RF, but that doesn't mean those positions aren't weak. People have been trying to tell us how we should go for Castro or Headley all offseason to replace those guys, while I keep replying that upgrading to an average player in RF is a much bigger improvement than upgrading 3b or C to an all star.

 

And we absolutely need 2 platoon partners that we currently don't have for these guys.

[LDF]

I'm ok with weaknesses at catcher and 3b and 2b if we fix the gaping hole in RF, but that doesn't mean those positions aren't weak. People have been trying to tell us how we should go for Castro or Headley all offseason to replace those guys, while I keep replying that upgrading to an average player in RF is a much bigger improvement than upgrading 3b or C to an all star.

 

And we absolutely need 2 platoon partners that we currently don't have for these guys.

 

PLATOON ..... and here i am thinking you are talking about getting Melky. jezze. yeah i am

with you on 2 platoon players.

[caulfield12]

Outside of trading half of the farm for Upton, we are a .500 team right now.

 

While I'm pretty sure most would trade Anderson and Montas for a guaranteed playoff appearance, we would still be just one significant injury to a top three starter of being knocked out of contention.

 

Even Melky Cabrera doesn't get us beyond 84-85 wins...assuming the superior version of him was/is sustainable.

 

Rock and a hard place. I'm guessing the feeling is that they need to wait until June or July instead of committing to another $15-25 million now.

[Balta1701]

PLATOON ..... and here i am thinking you are talking about getting Melky. jezze. yeah i am

with you on 2 platoon players.

as sick as I am at the concept of a juicer in RF, if I have to face him in RF versus "trading for a pitcher we're about to lose and then going with Viciedo in RF to make sure we lose him", fine give me the juicer and I'll start booing him.

[LDF]

as sick as I am at the concept of a juicer in RF, if I have to face him in RF versus "trading for a pitcher we're about to lose and then going with Viciedo in RF to make sure we lose him", fine give me the juicer and I'll start booing him.

 

not for 4 yrs and 14 per.

[Lillian]

Rosenthal, and a couple of Dodger beat writers are confident that Friedman still wants to move Ethier. Moreover, Ethier himself wants to be traded. The money is obviously the big obstacle.

L. A. is reportedly interested in another arm for the rotation, even after acquiring McCarthy:

 

"They need one more back-end starting pitcher, as talks for Cole Hamels have cooled and the Dodgers are not targeting elite free agents Max Scherzer or James Shields. They still want to move

outfielder Andre Ethier." By Ken Gurnick / MLB.com | December 11, 2014

 

Many of us have speculated about a Danks for Ethier trade. Maybe that is still a possibility. If that happens, many of us have argued that the Sox would need to have a couple of RH hitters on the bench, for days that Gillaspie, Ethier and or LaRoche could use a break from hitting vs. LH pitching.

Viciedo could help there, although he really hasn't hit lefties like he did when he first broke in. Nevertheless, his biggest weakness seems to be those low and away breaking balls from RH pitchers.

Facing southpaws helps mitigate that flaw. We can only hope that he finally matures, and begins to figure it out. My biggest concern with Dayan is that he swings so hard, and so violently, that you have to

wonder if he can ever be successful with that approach.

 

The other question that such a trade raises is, who is the other bottom of the rotation starter? Noesi is ok as a 5TH, and maybe Montas will be called upon until Rodon is ready. Or, perhaps Rodon joins the

rotation, right out of Spring Training. I don't see how he could be counted upon to give them 30 starts in his first year, but maybe splitting the starts with Montas would work. After all, he couldn't be

expected to provide 30 starts either.

I still dream of signing Scherzer.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Lillian

[LDF]

Outside of trading half of the farm for Upton, we are a .500 team right now.

 

While I'm pretty sure most would trade Anderson and Montas for a guaranteed playoff appearance, we would still be just one significant injury to a top three starter of being knocked out of contention.

 

Even Melky Cabrera doesn't get us beyond 84-85 wins...assuming the superior version of him was/is sustainable.

 

Rock and a hard place. I'm guessing the feeling is that they need to wait until June or July instead of committing to another $15-25 million now.

 

this is what i have been hinting about. i just read i think on cbs sports that the braves

wants a pkg of the 2 Uptons in a trade going out.

 

even if that is true, i will still like to examine that trade. outside the protections of the top

3 prospects why not???

[caulfield12]

Aoki might be the best option...unless they go with the worst defense in baseball/anti-Royals approach and stick Morse out there.

 

I'm still hoping for Rasmus but growing skeptical...if two years and $20 million could get it done.

 

The other approach is finding two Keppingers/Holts/Navas/Bonifacios to go with LaRoche/Gillaspie/Viciedo.

 

Zobrist?

Edited December 13, 2014 by caulfield12

[LDF]

Rosenthal, and a couple of Dodger beat writers are confident that Friedman still wants to move Ethier. Moreover, Ethier himself wants to be traded. The money is obviously the big obstacle.

L. A. is reportedly interested in another arm for the rotation, even after acquiring McCarthy:

 

"They need one more back-end starting pitcher, as talks for Cole Hamels have cooled and the Dodgers are not targeting elite free agents Max Scherzer or James Shields. They still want to move

outfielder Andre Ethier." By Ken Gurnick / MLB.com | December 11, 2014

 

Many of us have speculated about a Danks for Ethier trade. Maybe that is still a possibility. If that happens, many of us have argued that the Sox would need to have a couple of RH hitters on the bench, for days that Gillaspie, Ethier and or LaRoche could use a break from hitting vs. LH pitching.

Viciedo could help there, although he really hasn't hit lefties like he did when he first broke in. Nevertheless, his biggest weakness seems to be those low and away breaking balls from RH pitchers.

Facing southpaws helps mitigate that flaw. We can only hope that he finally matures, and begins to figure it out. My biggest concern with Dayan is that he swings so hard, and so violently, that you have to

wonder if he can ever be successful with that approach.

 

The other question that such a trade raises is, who is the other bottom of the rotation starter? Noesi is ok as a 5TH, and maybe Montas will be called upon until Rodon is ready. Or, perhaps Rodon joins the

rotation, right out of Spring Training. I don't see how he could be counted upon to give them 30 starts in his first year, but maybe splitting the starts with Montas would work. After all, he couldn't be

expected to provide 30 starts either.

I still dream of signing Scherzer.

 

your idea of replacing Danks in the rotation, will not work. maybe Shields?

[Ozzie Ball]

What is the difference between league average and a replacement level players?

Replacement level would be a 0 WAR player, while a league average player would come in somewhere around 2 WAR.

[caulfield12]

this is what i have been hinting about. i just read i think on cbs sports that the braves

wants a pkg of the 2 Uptons in a trade going out.

 

even if that is true, i will still like to examine that trade. outside the protections of the top

3 prospects why not???

 

No way we take both Uptons.

[caulfield12]

your idea of replacing Danks in the rotation, will not work. maybe Shields?

 

$$$$$

 

Won't happen.

[LDF]

$$$$$

 

Won't happen.

 

and that is why i have concerns of moving Danks to the Dodgers, now.

[caulfield12]

Bryce Harper. That would be interesting.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/12024212...-show-fan-event

[Jose Abreu]

Bryce Harper. That would be interesting.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/12024212...-show-fan-event

Please no. A cancer in the clubhouse, and not even a good player (yet).

 

[Chicago White Sox]

I'm ok with weaknesses at catcher and 3b and 2b if we fix the gaping hole in RF, but that doesn't mean those positions aren't weak. People have been trying to tell us how we should go for Castro or Headley all offseason to replace those guys, while I keep replying that upgrading to an average player in RF is a much bigger improvement than upgrading 3b or C to an all star.

 

And we absolutely need 2 platoon partners that we currently don't have for these guys.

As long as Saladino is healthy, he can definitely be Conor's platoon partner. We still need a right-handed OF that can take LaRoche's ABs against LHP, but it's still early in the offseason. Hahn should be able to find a guy to fill that role, although I'm not seeing a good fit in free agency. Ideally, this would be a guy who is a solid defender, allowing Avi to move DH during those starts.