Sox sign Melky Cabrera

[caulfield12]

I like winning. I like Melky because he's a good player, and good players helps teams win. I don't care if he's the worst person in MLB.

 

/thread

 

 

That's fine. So are Scherzer, Shields, Lester and Hanley Ramirez, but we're not going to be paying them, either.

 

It's not about "good."

 

It's about weighing past results/risk mitigation versus future return on investment.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Pretty much agreed.

 

This is where you have to look at remaining asset allocation.

 

I'd prefer to trade Viciedo (since he's not going to improve with us at this point) for Saunders, bring in Rasmus and sign Morse for DH.

 

 

That gives you two younger players who have underperformed expectations but have upside and a solid/experienced veteran bat in Morse to solidify the middle of the order and take some of the pressure off Avisail. Same with Rasmus. And you just don't want to go into the season without a decent fix for a possible Eaton injury again.

 

With Rasmus, you don't have to surrender that 2nd round pick that turned into one our more exciting prospects in Adams. I could be misreading things, but Cabrera at $48 million for 3 years or $60 million for 4 just isn't enticing enough because of the PEDs, his so-so defense, erratic results (and sure, Rasmus has been equally inconsistent), in general being leery about overpaying another veteran who could quickly decline and the fact that main reason we're chasing him is that he hits LH.

 

If the main reason is that you could feel confident putting Cabrera behind Abreu in the line-up...that's not enough.

I think the thought process with Melky is to put him in front of Abreu because his on base skills are way better than the Sox had last season in the 2nd spot in the order. Not sure I'm remebering it right but I think the Sox had an OBP of .279 out of that spot . Avi would still be behind Abreu most likely or the phantom player we all wish we could get.

Edited November 20, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[bear_brian]

Pretty much agreed.

 

This is where you have to look at remaining asset allocation.

 

I'd prefer to trade Viciedo (since he's not going to improve with us at this point) for Saunders, bring in Rasmus and sign Morse for DH.

 

 

That gives you two younger players who have underperformed expectations but have upside and a solid/experienced veteran bat in Morse to solidify the middle of the order and take some of the pressure off Avisail. Same with Rasmus. And you just don't want to go into the season without a decent fix for a possible Eaton injury again.

 

With Rasmus, you don't have to surrender that 2nd round pick that turned into one our more exciting prospects in Adams. I could be misreading things, but Cabrera at $48 million for 3 years or $60 million for 4 just isn't enticing enough because of the PEDs, his so-so defense, erratic results (and sure, Rasmus has been equally inconsistent), in general being leery about overpaying another veteran who could quickly decline and the fact that main reason we're chasing him is that he hits LH.

 

If the main reason is that you could feel confident putting Cabrera behind Abreu in the line-up...that's not enough.

 

Cabrera would not hit behind Abreu, but IN FRONT of him, behind Eaton. We would still need to find a #4 hitter (my suggestion is Morales, since I believe he will come back from a very disjointed season last year). There is no comparison between Rasmus and Melky offensively - Melky hits for average, does not strike out, is a switch hitter, and would totally improve the top of our lineup hitting between those two and allowing Alexei to slide down lower in the order.

 

I like the idea of trading for Saunders. He could provide rest for any of the three OF's, has lots of potential, and is a superior hitter to Jordan Danks.

 

[Balta1701]

Cabrera would not hit behind Abreu, but IN FRONT of him, behind Eaton. We would still need to find a #4 hitter (my suggestion is Morales, since I believe he will come back from a very disjointed season last year). There is no comparison between Rasmus and Melky offensively - Melky hits for average, does not strike out, is a switch hitter, and would totally improve the top of our lineup hitting between those two and allowing Alexei to slide down lower in the order.

 

I like the idea of trading for Saunders. He could provide rest for any of the three OF's, has lots of potential, and is a superior hitter to Jordan Danks.

Robin would not hit Cabrera directly behind Eaton because Robin wants to break up the lefties in his lineup. You'd almost certainly see some version of Eaton, followed by Alexei/Semien (or maybe even Garcia?), Cabrera, Abreu.

[Rowand44]

I'd think we'll start Marcus/Micah in the 2 hole and then change it up if they happen to fail.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Robin would not hit Cabrera directly behind Eaton because Robin wants to break up the lefties in his lineup. You'd almost certainly see some version of Eaton, followed by Alexei/Semien (or maybe even Garcia?), Cabrera, Abreu.

Ok I'm going to get you back for telling me Kemp wasn't LH . Melky is a switch hitter not LH unless you meant even against right handed pitchers Robin still wouldn't have Eaton and Melky back to back because if a lefty is then brought in Melky could just hit RH and problem solved .

[caulfield12]

I GUESS that's where a "professional" veteran leader in Ethier could come in.

 

 

If you did have Cabrera, 3 months from now the line-up COULD look like this.

 

 

Eaton

M.Cabrera

Abreu

Ethier (Danks contract swap) rotating DH

A.Garcia

Gillaspie

A.Ramirez

T.Flowers

M.Johnson

 

1-7, that line-up has a lot of threats, compared to the last couple of seasons. Pairing Eaton and Johnson at the bottom of the order leads to some exciting "small ball" possibilities as well when you need to score a single run against the Royals or Indians in the late innings, for example. You've also added two veteran bats in Ethier and M.Cabrera (couldn't figure any way to also add Morse and split the AB's).

 

And I'm not 100% convinced at all that Avisail is ready to hit behind Abreu. But we'll see.

 

 

What we're MORE likely to see IMO in terms of spending/financial commitment/s.

 

 

Eaton

Gillaspie

Abreu

Ethier

A.Garcia

Rasmus

Ramirez

Flowers

M.Johnson

 

With Saunders as the 4th OF.

 

Of course, you'd be expecting a new starter, Noesi and maybe Bassit to hold the back end of the rotation together and keep them within shouting distance of the division leaders for 6-8 weeks until Rodon joined the squad. (And there would be a tremendous amount of pressure on Rodon upon arrival, not unlike Daniel Hudson in 2010).

Edited November 20, 2014 by caulfield12

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Signing Melky worries me for 2 reasons that have nothing to do with him on the field.

 

I wouldn't want to go more than 4 yrs/$52M on him.

I wouldn't want to lose our 2nd RD pick on him. Our 2nd RD picks recently have been solid picks (Danish, Adams).

 

I'm not saying I would rule him out because of losing a 2nd RD pick, it just makes me not dying to sign him.

[LDF]

Robin would not hit Cabrera directly behind Eaton because Robin wants to break up the lefties in his lineup. You'd almost certainly see some version of Eaton, followed by Alexei/Semien (or maybe even Garcia?), Cabrera, Abreu.

 

Adam, Mich and for this discussion Conor are all lefty.

 

I believe someone posted the idea of Mich batting #1, if he makes it out of spring training.

then the sox has Adam at #2 and then Jose at #3.

 

that is still a left, left and a right handed hitting order.

 

so lets say do not use Mich as #1 but Adam and in my book Conor as #2. again hoping that Conor

comes out swinging like last yr.

 

that is still a LH, LH and RH lineup.

 

using maybe Marcus as a #2 hitter, I rather not put the pressure on him again. he may go back into

a tail spin.

 

some how the line up is going to get 2 of the same hands hitters. in top of the lineup, or 2 of the same

hand in the middle.

[LDF]

Signing Melky worries me for 2 reasons that have nothing to do with him on the field.

 

I wouldn't want to go more than 4 yrs/$52M on him.

I wouldn't want to lose our 2nd RD pick on him. Our 2nd RD picks recently have been solid picks (Danish, Adams).

 

I'm not saying I would rule him out because of losing a 2nd RD pick, it just makes me not dying to sign him.

 

you got a point, but getting a nice player may have to outweigh the cost of loosing a pick.

[Boopa1219]

I hope they don't sign him, I don't want guys who have any connection to PEDs on the team.

[LDF]

I GUESS that's where a "professional" veteran leader in Ethier could come in.

 

 

If you did have Cabrera, 3 months from now the line-up COULD look like this.

 

 

Eaton

M.Cabrera

Abreu

Ethier (Danks contract swap) rotating DH

A.Garcia

Gillaspie

A.Ramirez

T.Flowers

M.Johnson

 

1-7, that line-up has a lot of threats, compared to the last couple of seasons. Pairing Eaton and Johnson at the bottom of the order leads to some exciting "small ball" possibilities as well when you need to score a single run against the Royals or Indians in the late innings, for example. You've also added two veteran bats in Ethier and M.Cabrera (couldn't figure any way to also add Morse and split the AB's).

 

And I'm not 100% convinced at all that Avisail is ready to hit behind Abreu. But we'll see.

 

 

What we're MORE likely to see IMO in terms of spending/financial commitment/s.

 

 

Eaton

Gillaspie

Abreu

Ethier

A.Garcia

Rasmus

Ramirez

Flowers

M.Johnson

 

With Saunders as the 4th OF.

 

Of course, you'd be expecting a new starter, Noesi and maybe Bassit to hold the back end of the rotation together and keep them within shouting distance of the division leaders for 6-8 weeks until Rodon joined the squad. (And there would be a tremendous amount of pressure on Rodon upon arrival, not unlike Daniel Hudson in 2010).

 

I would switch the 2 bolded for the reason Garcai to get adjusted to the big league. then switch them

back.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

you got a point, but getting a nice player may have to outweigh the cost of loosing a pick.

 

Right, but he's just not a slamdunk player that would make me not care about the pick. He is almost Alex Rios-like in his sporadically good and bad seasons. Let me preface this by saying I know WAR is not the end all be all stat, but it's a good quick reference to a player's season, so check this out for his recent years.....

 

2009: 1.4 WAR (okay year)

2010: -1.4 WAR (epic bad season)

2011: 3.7 WAR (Very good, all-star caliber season)

2012: 4.5 WAR (Awesome season, all-star caliber again)

2013: -0.9 WAR (Only played 88 games, but was awful)

2014: 2.6 WAR (Decent above average year)

 

 

That's 6 years worth of "What will he be next year"??? Giving him a long term deal is very scary, because his career is like a box of chocolates, you never know which one you're gunna get.

[GreenSox]

 

Melky can hit and doesn't strike out much, but I wish he played decent D. That was a real weak spot on this team.

We can trade Alexei and get a good outfielder plus a couple of good a/aa prospects.

Sandoval is the position player available, and by far, imo.

[caulfield12]

Melky can hit and doesn't strike out much, but I wish he played decent D. That was a real weak spot on this team.

We can trade Alexei and get a good outfielder plus a couple of good a/aa prospects.

Sandoval is the position player available, and by far, imo.

 

 

I'd take Hanley Ramirez's impact bat over Sandoval any day of the week. I might even take Cruz if I believed his 2nd half wasn't a warning indicator of an impending age-related decline (Dunn in 2010) but happened for other reasons (see league pitching around Jose Abreu).

 

The question is Hanley's health, of course...but that's the same as Kung Fu Panda's weight issues next year, or especially 4-5 years down the line. We've seen it blow up with Prince Fielder already.

Edited November 21, 2014 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Adam, Mich and for this discussion Conor are all lefty.

 

I believe someone posted the idea of Mich batting #1, if he makes it out of spring training.

then the sox has Adam at #2 and then Jose at #3.

 

that is still a left, left and a right handed hitting order.

 

so lets say do not use Mich as #1 but Adam and in my book Conor as #2. again hoping that Conor

comes out swinging like last yr.

 

that is still a LH, LH and RH lineup.

 

using maybe Marcus as a #2 hitter, I rather not put the pressure on him again. he may go back into

a tail spin.

 

some how the line up is going to get 2 of the same hands hitters. in top of the lineup, or 2 of the same

hand in the middle.

Robin will do whatever he can to avoid having that happen, including hitting people like Gillaspie right behind Abreu. He made that very clear last year.

[LDF]

Right, but he's just not a slamdunk player that would make me not care about the pick. He is almost Alex Rios-like in his sporadically good and bad seasons. Let me preface this by saying I know WAR is not the end all be all stat, but it's a good quick reference to a player's season, so check this out for his recent years.....

 

2009: 1.4 WAR (okay year)

2010: -1.4 WAR (epic bad season)

2011: 3.7 WAR (Very good, all-star caliber season)

2012: 4.5 WAR (Awesome season, all-star caliber again)

2013: -0.9 WAR (Only played 88 games, but was awful)

2014: 2.6 WAR (Decent above average year)

 

 

That's 6 years worth of "What will he be next year"??? Giving him a long term deal is very scary, because his career is like a box of chocolates, you never know which one you're gunna get.

 

I hate to say this, but nothing is life is a guarantee. every yr players are worry about injury,

a bad hitting streak, dang it I forgot the rest of the quotes I was going to use. I am sure you

can get my drift.

[LDF]

Robin will do whatever he can to avoid having that happen, including hitting people like Gillaspie right behind Abreu. He made that very clear last year.

 

I know, and that result was not too successful.

[GreenSox]

I'd take Hanley Ramirez's impact bat over Sandoval any day of the week.

 

The question is his health...but that's the same as Kung Fu Panda's weight issues next year, or especially 4-5 years down the line. We've seen it with Prince Fielder already.

Hanley has actually had health troubles and a lot of them. Sandoval hasn't. Hanley had an impact bat 5 years ago. Today it's good. Sandoval is younger and plays much better D.

Plus, I get the sense that Hanley's a "me first" player and I don't think Ventura is very good at handling those types.

Edited November 21, 2014 by GreenSox

[Andy the Clown]

That's fine. So are Scherzer, Shields, Lester and Hanley Ramirez, but we're not going to be paying them, either.

 

It's not about "good."

 

It's about weighing past results/risk mitigation versus future return on investment.

 

Melky's 30 years old. There's nothing wrong with a 4 year deal.

[Andy the Clown]

Eaton

Gillaspie

Abreu

Ethier

A.Garcia

Rasmus

Ramirez

Flowers

M.Johnson

 

Come on man, that's a 90-loss team. We could do that for free.

[Chicago White Sox]

Right, but he's just not a slamdunk player that would make me not care about the pick. He is almost Alex Rios-like in his sporadically good and bad seasons. Let me preface this by saying I know WAR is not the end all be all stat, but it's a good quick reference to a player's season, so check this out for his recent years.....

 

2009: 1.4 WAR (okay year)

2010: -1.4 WAR (epic bad season)

2011: 3.7 WAR (Very good, all-star caliber season)

2012: 4.5 WAR (Awesome season, all-star caliber again)

2013: -0.9 WAR (Only played 88 games, but was awful)

2014: 2.6 WAR (Decent above average year)

 

 

That's 6 years worth of "What will he be next year"??? Giving him a long term deal is very scary, because his career is like a box of chocolates, you never know which one you're gunna get.

Seems like he has been pretty good since since 2011, with 2013 being an exception when he had a tumor on his spine.

 

I guess I disagree with you here.

 

[southsider2k5]

Right, but he's just not a slamdunk player that would make me not care about the pick. He is almost Alex Rios-like in his sporadically good and bad seasons. Let me preface this by saying I know WAR is not the end all be all stat, but it's a good quick reference to a player's season, so check this out for his recent years.....

 

2009: 1.4 WAR (okay year)

2010: -1.4 WAR (epic bad season)

2011: 3.7 WAR (Very good, all-star caliber season)

2012: 4.5 WAR (Awesome season, all-star caliber again)

2013: -0.9 WAR (Only played 88 games, but was awful)

2014: 2.6 WAR (Decent above average year)

 

 

That's 6 years worth of "What will he be next year"??? Giving him a long term deal is very scary, because his career is like a box of chocolates, you never know which one you're gunna get.

 

2013 he was hurt. Take that out, and things look a lot different.

[caulfield12]

Come on man, that's a 90-loss team. We could do that for free.

 

 

So Cabrera makes us an 83-85 win team?

 

I'm not even certain he will outproduce Rasmus the next four years straight up, let alone when you take costs into consideration, and finally the advantage Rasmus has of being able to take over for Eaton in CF and play the position at least adequately, compared to Cabrera at this stage of his career.

[caulfield12]

2013 he was hurt. Take that out, and things look a lot different.

 

 

And you're willing to give him essentially the same deal Adam Dunn had?

4 years/$60 million?

 

 

I love how exchanging Dunn for Ethier and Viciedo for Rasmus leads to a worse season than 2013. If everyone believes in defensive metrics/DRS/UZR so much, getting Viciedo out of the outfield alone should give you a tremendous benefit. We can't, on one hand, say how great it would be to add Heyward for one year and then turn around and totally discount defense with Rasmus, at least in LF.

Edited November 21, 2014 by caulfield12