southsider2k5 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 07:17 PM) And you're willing to give him essentially the same deal Adam Dunn had? 4 years/$60 million? I love how exchanging Dunn for Ethier and Viciedo for Rasmus leads to a worse season than 2013. If everyone believes in defensive metrics/DRS/UZR so much, getting Viciedo out of the outfield alone should give you a tremendous benefit. We can't, on one hand, say how great it would be to add Heyward for one year and then turn around and totally discount defense with Rasmus, at least in LF. His floor is so much higher than Adam Dunn it isn't even funny. Plus he can actually play in the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palehose23 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 06:59 PM) I hope they don't sign him, I don't want guys who have any connection to PEDs on the team. Then you want the Sox to trade Jose Quintana then, right? http://www.sbnation.com/hot-corner/2013/8/...-ped-suspension Edited November 21, 2014 by palehose23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 So Cabrera makes us an 83-85 win team? I'm not even certain he will outproduce Rasmus the next four years straight up, let alone when you take costs into consideration, and finally the advantage Rasmus has of being able to take over for Eaton in CF and play the position at least adequately, compared to Cabrera at this stage of his career. Suggesting the addition of Ethier and Rasmus is...poor judgment, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 06:22 PM) His floor is so much higher than Adam Dunn it isn't even funny. Plus he can actually play in the field. Dunn's floor was in the sub sub basement . I don't even know who you're talking about. Cabrera ? because pretty much anyone but Leury Garcia has a floor higher than Dunn's . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 07:10 PM) Suggesting the addition of Ethier and Rasmus is...poor judgment, imo. So please give us all your good judgement besidees Melky for DH ? Starting pitching? Relief pitching ? payroll ? International signings ? Compete year ? Give up draft choices ? Trade minor leaguers ? It's quite disheartening seeing every suggestion shot down "I wouldn't give so and so more than X dollars for X years blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda . Seems to me nothing would get resolved among our fine posters except say no to all FA 's because of PEDS , their daddy is a problem, too old , coming off a bad year , bad idea, coming off a good year , bad idea. You all have paralysis by analysis. Sorry Andy didn't aim this at you in particular but there are a lot of risks involved and you take your best shot based on past and upside and defense taking as much into consideration as possible and then it's "poor judgment" while 90% of the naysayers never have a plan of their own just some vague idea of how much the Sox have to spend and what everyone fairly deserves on the FA agent market. FA is like the draft. Its crap shoot and when it isn't you pay the highest amount and many years for the best players which turns that into an even bigger mess of a crapshoot. You pay the piper in one way or another eventually . Edited November 21, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 10:32 PM) So please give us all your good judgement besidees Melky for DH ? Starting pitching? Relief pitching ? payroll ? International signings ? Compete year ? Give up draft choices ? Trade minor leaguers ? It's quite disheartening seeing every suggestion shot down "I wouldn't give so and so more than X dollars for X years blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda . Seems to me nothing would get resolved among our fine posters except say no to all FA 's because of PEDS , their daddy is a problem, too old , coming off a bad year , bad idea, coming off a good year , bad idea. You all have paralysis by analysis. Sorry Andy didn't aim this at you in particular but there are a lot of risks involved and you take your best shot based on past and upside and defense taking as much into consideration as possible and then it's "poor judgment" while 90% of the naysayers never have a plan of their own just some vague idea of how much the Sox have to spend and what everyone fairly deserves on the FA agent market. FA is like the draft. Its crap shoot and when it isn't you pay the highest amount and many years for the best players which turns that into an even bigger mess of a crapshoot. You pay the piper in one way or another eventually . Not the right plac for this, I know, so please excuse me while i digress, but, is there any indication sox are looking at Hanley? Feel like adding him and a melky or Rasmus would make us instant contenders.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (Special K @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 10:08 PM) Not the right plac for this, I know, so please excuse me while i digress, but, is there any indication sox are looking at Hanley? Feel like adding him and a melky or Rasmus would make us instant contenders.... Not at the speculated dollar levels of $80-120 million. If the numbers were in the 50's or 60's, I think they'd definitely have to give it strong consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 03:32 AM) So please give us all your good judgement besidees Melky for DH ? Starting pitching? Relief pitching ? payroll ? International signings ? Compete year ? Give up draft choices ? Trade minor leaguers ? It's quite disheartening seeing every suggestion shot down "I wouldn't give so and so more than X dollars for X years blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda . Seems to me nothing would get resolved among our fine posters except say no to all FA 's because of PEDS , their daddy is a problem, too old , coming off a bad year , bad idea, coming off a good year , bad idea. You all have paralysis by analysis. Sorry Andy didn't aim this at you in particular but there are a lot of risks involved and you take your best shot based on past and upside and defense taking as much into consideration as possible and then it's "poor judgment" while 90% of the naysayers never have a plan of their own just some vague idea of how much the Sox have to spend and what everyone fairly deserves on the FA agent market. FA is like the draft. Its crap shoot and when it isn't you pay the highest amount and many years for the best players which turns that into an even bigger mess of a crapshoot. You pay the piper in one way or another eventually . whether you like it or not, those analysis as you said needs to be taken into account, in order to guide the org in making the right decision, because it is a crap shot. the org needs those answer to minimize the gamble and make the best informed decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 12:57 AM) Not at the speculated dollar levels of $80-120 million. If the numbers were in the 50's or 60's, I think they'd definitely have to give it strong consideration. All I have to say is that you are going to have to spend something if you want to get something... Cannot remember the last time (I'm sure somebody else on here can remind me) the Sox landed a top free agent positional player. I'm not going to count the Abreu move as he had not yet played a game, but, even if we do, the results we had would suggest it's not a bad move going for Hanley. Not suggesting throwing hundreds of millions like the Marlins just did, but, going after these B+ free agents like Hanley for somewhere in the range like you mentioned has to occur otherwise we will keep losing with guys like Gillespie, Flowers, Tanks, etc. Gillespie had a fine year last year, and it's okay to have 1 or 2 guys like that on your roster, but, not 4 or 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (Special K @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 08:18 AM) otherwise we will keep losing with guys like Gillespie, Flowers, Tanks, etc. Gillespie had a fine year last year, and it's okay to have 1 or 2 guys like that on your roster, but, not 4 or 5. There is a big difference between guys like Flowers and Gillaspie and guys like Viciedo right now. Flowers and Gillaspie weren't terrible. You can win with a roster full of guys like Flowers and Gillaspie as long as you don't have terrible players alongside them. If you're going to have terrible players like Viciedo throughout your roster, you need to balance them out with extra all stars, which is tougher and a lot more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Special K @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 11:08 PM) Not the right plac for this, I know, so please excuse me while i digress, but, is there any indication sox are looking at Hanley? Feel like adding him and a melky or Rasmus would make us instant contenders.... The lineup would look nice, but the pitching staff is still cringe-worthy at the back end and in the bullpen. L Eaton CF S Cabrera LF R Ramirez 3B R Abreu 1B L Gillaspie DH R Garcia RF S Semien 2B R Ramirez SS R Flowers CA L Sale L Quintana R Noesi L Danks R ? Edited November 21, 2014 by Eminor3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (palehose23 @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 09:02 PM) Then you want the Sox to trade Jose Quintana then, right? http://www.sbnation.com/hot-corner/2013/8/...-ped-suspension Along with Flowers, Nieto, and Rienzo to name a few others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 09:36 AM) The lineup would look nice, but the pitching staff is still cringe-worthy at the back end and in the bullpen. L Eaton CF S Cabrera LF R Ramirez 3B R Abreu 1B L Gillaspie DH R Garcia RF S Semien 2B R Ramirez SS R Flowers CA L Sale L Quintana R Noesi L Danks R ? At that point, we would have to make a trade or hope to improve internally. You do have to factor Rodon in at some point, and if he starts out of the bullpen, the sox have already upgraded their pen this year with two solid lefties. Then really all you need to do is find starting pitcher to hopefully slot in the 3 role... and have Noesi as your 5 and really hope Danks has a strong year. But still, it's not a stellar rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (Special K @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 09:47 AM) At that point, we would have to make a trade or hope to improve internally. You do have to factor Rodon in at some point, and if he starts out of the bullpen, the sox have already upgraded their pen this year with two solid lefties. Then really all you need to do is find starting pitcher to hopefully slot in the 3 role... and have Noesi as your 5 and really hope Danks has a strong year. But still, it's not a stellar rotation. No. No no. No. No No No No. No. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 09:50 AM) No. No no. No. No No No No. No. No. Im not for Rodon starting out of the 'pen. I was responding to the hypothetical rotation proposed above. I prefer he start on the 5-man rotation. That being said, your response was a little bit of an overreaction. It's not like Sale or even Buehrle for that matter didn't have success starting their careers out of the 'pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 05:59 PM) I hope they don't sign him, I don't want guys who have any connection to PEDs on the team. I just want to say this, and it will not be the last time I say this: if people do not want the White Sox to bring in people connected with PEDs, then they may as well DFA Tyler Flowers and Jose Quintana now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 09:04 AM) I just want to say this, and it will not be the last time I say this: if people do not want the White Sox to bring in people connected with PEDs, then they may as well DFA Tyler Flowers and Jose Quintana now. Yeah, it's short-sighted to say we don't want anyone who was ever associated with PEDs on the Sox. There are more guys out there who were taking that stuff than we will ever know. Cabrera got caught, and his case was more high-profile because he lied. But, he's still a good hitter and would immediately fill a need and a wish at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 09:09 AM) Yeah, it's short-sighted to say we don't want anyone who was ever associated with PEDs on the Sox. There are more guys out there who were taking that stuff than we will ever know. Cabrera got caught, and his case was more high-profile because he lied. But, he's still a good hitter and would immediately fill a need and a wish at the same time. There are some really shady circumstances around his, including trying to forge a website to attempt to clear his name, but it wouldn't stop me from pursuing him for the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewokpelts Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 04:39 PM) With the Russell Martin signing, this could open up the Melky Cabrera sweepstakes quite a bit as Toronto might not have much money to play with. Cabrera just turned 30 who is a switch hitter, little above average defensively, doesn't strikeout but doesn't walk that much either. Definitely a contact type guy. What do you guys think? Yes or no and what would you give him years/money wise. f*** him. sox dont need a roider piece of s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I think we do need a roider piece of s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 10:34 AM) f*** him. sox dont need a roider piece of s***. QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 09:04 AM) I just want to say this, and it will not be the last time I say this: if people do not want the White Sox to bring in people connected with PEDs, then they may as well DFA Tyler Flowers and Jose Quintana now. But thank you for participating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 10:35 AM) But thank you for participating. I've given up the PED crusade. If they get suspended they get suspended, but not all PED busts are equal. Q's at the age of 17 seems very innocent: http://www.sbnation.com/hot-corner/2013/8/...-ped-suspension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 09:04 AM) I just want to say this, and it will not be the last time I say this: if people do not want the White Sox to bring in people connected with PEDs, then they may as well DFA Tyler Flowers and Jose Quintana now. They should also return all of their 2005 World Series memorabilia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 10:47 AM) I've given up the PED crusade. If they get suspended they get suspended, but not all PED busts are equal. Q's at the age of 17 seems very innocent: http://www.sbnation.com/hot-corner/2013/8/...-ped-suspension No, they're not equal at all, and while I didn't check that link, I've read enough on Quintana's to know that there were other circumstances behind it. Still, I can't stand when people make blanket statements about people who use PEDs. Cabrera was as clean as we can possibly know last year and he had a good season. If he gets busted, then the Sox don't have to pay him for 100 games which will recoup something like 20% of the amount they have to pay him (assuming he gets a 3 year deal). Yeah, if he was using and he gets busted, then it's a big deal and it's a big problem, and the Sox are on the hook for 2 years, but these are risks you have to take sometimes. The Sox could just as easily sign Sandoval and find him using PEDs a year and a half into his contract, which is only a 50 game suspension, and then he could fall completely off the cliff. Hypotheticals and what ifs are a fun game to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 There's always something odd when a guy was never very good, then got really good, then got busted for roids, then kept being good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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