Dodgers aggressively pursuing Alexei

[witesoxfan]

No matter the circumstances?

 

Well no matter the realistic circumstances. If the Sox got him for $10 mill a year and didn't pay much, I'd be perfectly content, but that's not going to happen. I'm not entirely sure how motivated the Dodgers are to move Matt Kemp specifically, but they should be motivated to move an outfielder or two. However, I think there will be teams who are interested in Matt Kemp that would eat most or all of the salary if given for essentially free or will give up legitimate prospects if the Dodgers eat his salary. The Sox would probably be in the conversation if they traded Alexei Ramirez for him, but that's a lateral move at best to me and could just as easily put them in contract purgatory hell, which puts them in a worse situation.

 

There's just nothing about Matt Kemp and his overall game that makes me think he's gonig to be the missing piece of the puzzle for the White Sox. Frankly, I think Nelson Cruz accmplishes roughly the same goal as bringing in Matt Kemp but that likely only requires a 3 year deal at the most and it could easily be a 2 year deal, and I don't want them signing Nelson Cruz either.

[witesoxfan]

Kemp maybe overrated now but when he signed that contract he put up numbers teams dream about in 2011. Hit .324, obp .399, slug .586. Ops .986, 39 hr, 126 rbi's, 33 2b and 40 sb. If you can get the dodgers to knock off some money and is less the the amount that Sandoval and Hanley ramirez is going to get then he's not that overrated. The only thing slowing kemp down is the injuries but he played 150 games last year.

 

You are using numbers from 2011 to justify bringing in Matt Kemp in 2015.

[Whisox05]

I still think Eithier is the way to go for us, not Kemp....Either + $15-20M of his remaining $56M, 1 of Van Slyke/Schebler, and a young bull pen arm like Chris Winthrow, Paco Rodriguez, or Yimi Garcia for Alexei makes the most to me. We could then go out and get a cheap guy like Stephen Drew for SS if we are really that worried about Semien/Sanchez's D.

 

1. Eaton CF

2. Micah/Semein 2B

3. Eithier LF

4. Abreu 1B

5. Laroche DH

6. Garcia RF

7. Gillaspie/Semien 3B

8. Flowers

9. Drew/Semien

 

Not bad at all if you ask me....just add a #3 SP and 1 more bull pen piece and we would definitely compete for a playoff spot.

 

I would prefer to stay away from ethier. He needs to be platooned. That package you suggesting is going to be more then alexei from the sox. I would also stay away from Semien at 3rd. He has 14 errors in 50 appearances there over the last 2 years. 33 appearances in 2014 and 10 errors alone. Until he fixes his defense there I would be worried.

[witesoxfan]

I would prefer to stay away from ethier. He needs to be platooned. That package you suggesting is going to be more then alexei from the sox. I would also stay away from Semien at 3rd. He has 14 errors in 50 appearances there over the last 2 years. 33 appearances in 2014 and 10 errors alone. Until he fixes his defense there I would be worried.

 

Platoons aren't bad things. That package that he suggested could be an absolute heist for the Sox, but I doubt the Dodgers would make it. Semien is perfectly fine defensively - quick feet, soft hands, good arm - but his footwoork has been poor as he has rushed his throws. That's something that improves with time and repitition.

[Whisox05]

You are using numbers from 2011 to justify bringing in Matt Kemp in 2015.

 

I'm using those numbers to say he wasn't always overrated. If the sox got him for 15 million AAV over the 5 yrs and produces along the lines of his 2014 stats of .287 average, .346 obp, .506 slg, .852 ops, 25 hr, 38 2b and 89 rbi's then he's not that overrated.

Edited November 24, 2014 by WhiteSoxLifer

[witesoxfan]

I'm using those numbers to say he wasn't always overrated. If the sox got him for 15 million AAV over the 5 yrs and produces along the lines of his 2014 stats of .287 average, .346 obp, .506 slg, .852 ops, 25 hr, 38 2b and 89 rbi's then he's not that overrated.

 

I don't care if he was or was not overrated in 2011, I'm saying that right now, in today's game, he is overrated and may be the most overrated player in the league. The fact that you are using his offensive output and ignoring his defensive output to suggest that he is somehow reasonably worth $21+ mill per year is outrageous.

[mataipaepae]

I don't care if he was or was not overrated in 2011, I'm saying that right now, in today's game, he is overrated and may be the most overrated player in the league. The fact that you are using his offensive output and ignoring his defensive output to suggest that he is somehow reasonably worth $21+ mill per year is outrageous.

I have heard it is complicated?

[witesoxfan]

I have heard it is complicated?

 

Oh good, my stalker is back.

[TheFutureIsNear]

I would prefer to stay away from ethier. He needs to be platooned. That package you suggesting is going to be more then alexei from the sox. I would also stay away from Semien at 3rd. He has 14 errors in 50 appearances there over the last 2 years. 33 appearances in 2014 and 10 errors alone. Until he fixes his defense there I would be worried.

 

Personally, I think you are underrating Eithier a good bit. Part of a platoon isn't that big of a deal when you are talking about a LH OF. He will still get an easy 500 PA's if he stays healthy. I'm not putting much stock in his #' in 2014 because of the situation he was in...in 2013 he hit .294/.394/.460 against righties in just under 400 PA's. Even if you want to say he's regressed a decent amount since then I think it would be hard to argue that he could give us a .280/.360/.420 type of season while playing at least adequate D in LF. That's a pretty valuable player if you ask me...

 

And Semien better learn how to play 3B and 2B at least adequately or he's going to have a hard time finding any playing time at all. I think he will be fine there playing against LH pitchers only though. There isn't anything that I'm aware of in his skill set that should keep him from being able to at least hold his own at 3B. He was a young guy playing a position he's unfamiliar with, errors are going to happen.

[Whisox05]

I don't care if he was or was not overrated in 2011, I'm saying that right now, in today's game, he is overrated and may be the most overrated player in the league. The fact that you are using his offensive output and ignoring his defensive output to suggest that he is somehow reasonably worth $21+ mill per year is outrageous.

 

Wow you don't apparently read what I'm saying. I'm not saying kemp is worth 21+ million. I'm saying if the dodgers paid him down to about 15 million a year then I would more accepting. You are acting like if the sox were somehow to get him they would be taking his whole contract which you know would not be the case. We all know kemp is not worth 21 million a year. The player I feel who is overrated right now is Hanley ramirez. He is going to get 22 million aav. That is bad.

Edited November 24, 2014 by WhiteSoxLifer

[witesoxfan]

Wow you don't apparently read what I'm saying. I'm not saying kemp is worth 21+ million. I'm saying if the dodgers paid him down to about 15 million a year then I would more accepting. You are acting like if the sox were somehow to get him they would be taking his whole contract which you know would not be the case. We all know kemp is not worth 21 million a year. The player I feel who is overrated right now is Hanley ramirez. He is going to get 22 million aav. That is bad.

 

Why would the Dodgers do that? Do you really think they view Alexei Ramirez to be such an upgrade over the next two years that they'd trade Matt Kemp - who is an overrated player but not a bad player - and would kick in $20 million on top of that for him?

[BlackSox13]

With Hanley off the market there's one less option available for the Yanks, Mets, Dodgers, Seattle etc.

 

As time goes on I become more and more curious as to who might make the offer for Alexei that Hahn cannot resist.

 

Don't change that channel Sox fans!

[witesoxfan]

With Hanley off the market there's one less option available for the Yanks, Mets, Dodgers, Seattle etc.

 

As time goes on I become more and more curious as to who might make the offer for Alexei that Hahn cannot resist.

 

Don't change that channel Sox fans!

 

I don't think the Sox will end up trading him.

[Balta1701]

Why would the Dodgers do that? Do you really think they view Alexei Ramirez to be such an upgrade over the next two years that they'd trade Matt Kemp - who is an overrated player but not a bad player - and would kick in $20 million on top of that for him?

So the Dodgers get one of the top 5 shortstops in the game for the next year+ and remove a total of $67 million in salary obligations?

 

I think they'd be crazy not to do that.

[Whisox05]

Why would the Dodgers do that? Do you really think they view Alexei Ramirez to be such an upgrade over the next two years that they'd trade Matt Kemp - who is an overrated player but not a bad player - and would kick in $20 million on top of that for him?

 

Funny alot of people are suggesting kemp for alexei on the board but you aren't bashing their opinions like mine. Apparently any opinion of mine on any topic is not good enough for you. Wondered why it took me so long to post anything after reading the board for years.

[witesoxfan]

So the Dodgers get one of the top 5 shortstops in the game for the next year+ and remove a total of $67 million in salary obligations?

 

I think they'd be crazy not to do that.

 

I don't think Ramirez is a top 5 shortstop in the game either, even if I think he is a really good and valuable shortstop. Probably top 10, but I wouldn't go beyond that. Either way, I think the Dodgers can find a way to save more money than that even, plus that also leaves them without one of their best offensive outfielders. They are also a franchise who is not struggling for money right now, for $67 million over 5 years isn't really that much for them.

 

I don't think they'd do it.

[Balta1701]

I don't think Ramirez is a top 5 shortstop in the game either, even if I think he is a really good and valuable shortstop. Probably top 10, but I wouldn't go beyond that. Either way, I think the Dodgers can find a way to save more money than that even, plus that also leaves them without one of their best offensive outfielders. They are also a franchise who is not struggling for money right now, for $67 million over 5 years isn't really that much for them.

 

I don't think they'd do it.

I checked a couple days ago, he's #4 in MLB in fWAR over the last 5 years and #5 over the last 2 years. He's a legit top 5 shortstop in baseball.

 

Oh, and whether we believe it or not, there have been reports that this is a franchise which does need to shed payroll.

[witesoxfan]

Funny alot of people are suggesting kemp for alexei on the board but you aren't bashing their opinions like mine. Apparently any opinion of mine on any topic is not good enough for you. Wondered why it took me so long to post anything after reading the board for years.

 

I think anybody who suggests Kemp for Alexei is wrong, it has nothing to do with you being a new poster or going after you. I'm glad you are posting and sharing your opinions even if I happen to disagree with them. I just believe that trading Alexei for Kemp adds unnecessary money to the White Sox and makes them a worse team. I also don't think the Dodgers will find that to be the best use of their resources.

 

If the trade does happen, I'll eat my words and voice my displeasure with the move. To me, nothing about that move makes sense for either the Dodgers or the White Sox.

[Lillian]

Personally, I think you are underrating Eithier a good bit. Part of a platoon isn't that big of a deal when you are talking about a LH OF. He will still get an easy 500 PA's if he stays healthy. I'm not putting much stock in his #' in 2014 because of the situation he was in...in 2013 he hit .294/.394/.460 against righties in just under 400 PA's. Even if you want to say he's regressed a decent amount since then I think it would be hard to argue that he could give us a .280/.360/.420 type of season while playing at least adequate D in LF. That's a pretty valuable player if you ask me...

 

And Semien better learn how to play 3B and 2B at least adequately or he's going to have a hard time finding any playing time at all. I think he will be fine there playing against LH pitchers only though. There isn't anything that I'm aware of in his skill set that should keep him from being able to at least hold his own at 3B. He was a young guy playing a position he's unfamiliar with, errors are going to happen.

 

I agree, and the following stats will illustrate just how consistently terrific Ethier has been vs. RH pitching, which after all is what hitters face most of the time:

YEAR PA .AVG .OBP SLG BB SO

2008 441 .326 .392 .560 44 64

2009 498 .302 .390 .571 59 77

2010 407 .318 .396 .564 46 66

2011 400 .321 .410 .468 51 62

2012 379 .325 .398 .546 39 61

2013 393 .294 .394 .460 52 60

 

That is 6 consecutive years, in his prime, when Ethier was as consistently good as anyone facing RHP. Last year would appear to be an outlier and the reasons are well known.

By contrast, Kemp has feasted on LH pitching most of his career. He is not nearly as consistently good vs. RHP.

Add in the injury free history and character/leadership factors, as well as the cost, and it is easy to see why one might prefer Either to Kemp, who would provide more HR's, but that's about all.

As he ages, he could use the rest vs LH starters, which would make him available as a pinch hitter off the bench, in the late innings vs RHP. Wouldn't that be a great asset to have?

Edited November 24, 2014 by Lillian

[witesoxfan]

I checked a couple days ago, he's #4 in MLB in fWAR over the last 5 years and #5 over the last 2 years. He's a legit top 5 shortstop in baseball.

 

Oh, and whether we believe it or not, there have been reports that this is a franchise which does need to shed payroll.

 

He was #8 this year and is heading into his age 33 season where his biggest advantage has been his range in the field and that's starting to diminish as he's getting older. I think having him at about 8th is the safest spot to project him moving forward.

[mataipaepae]

Oh good, my stalker is back.

That's difficult to know?

[BlackSox13]

I don't think the Sox will end up trading him.

I guess we will find out between now and ST. I know the Sox want depth up the middle but how much depth do they need? Semien, Saladino, Sanchez, Diaz, Johnson, Jirschele and L.Garcia are the middle infielders between Charlotte and the Sox not including Alexei. Then there's the Anderson freight train coming at Birmingham.

 

It sure as hell looks like something is brewing. We shall see...

[Vance Law]

Wow you don't apparently read what I'm saying. I'm not saying kemp is worth 21+ million. I'm saying if the dodgers paid him down to about 15 million a year then I would more accepting. You are acting like if the sox were somehow to get him they would be taking his whole contract which you know would not be the case. We all know kemp is not worth 21 million a year. The player I feel who is overrated right now is Hanley ramirez. He is going to get 22 million aav. That is bad.

 

But then you are talking about a 5 year $75 million deal......and giving up one of the game's better shortstop.

 

As wite said, we'd be better off just signing Nelson Cruz for cheaper and keeping Alexei.

[cabiness42]

In the end, I don't think an Alexei trade ends up happening. The Sox don't NEED to trade him because he isn't expensive dollars-wise and even though the position has depth within the system, there isn't a prime candidate to play the position this season and succeed where the Sox are clearly geared towards competing in 2015. There is still ample opportunity to trade him next offseason, when Anderson MIGHT be ready to take over. So, from the Sox standpoint, they would need to be overwhelmed in order to deal Alexei.

 

From the suitors' standpoint, the trend in recent years has been an increased willingness to spend dollars to acquire talent and a decreased willingness to give up players/prospects in order to acquire talent. Even in Alexei's case, where there is not comparable free agent available that can be bought with dollars, I don't see a team being willing to take a "loss" in a trade to the extent that would be required to get Alexei.

 

The Dodgers might be the lone exception because they have a logjam in the outfield, but even with them it would take one of their outfielders + a substantial amount of cash + a very good and very near major league ready prospect, and on paper that would be such an unfair trade that it might be hard to swallow.

[witesoxfan]

I think the more likely outcome is that some of the 2B depth is traded. My personal prediction is that the Sox trade Micah Johnson this offseason, but I've definitely been wrong before and will be wrong again.