LDF Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 05:14 PM) Jose Bautista only had 600 PA's by age 25; I don't think he's a comp at all. David Ortiz had a career .351 OBP and a 101 wRC+ through age 25; he knew how to hit. Viciedo doesn't, is sitting at a .298 OBP and 95 wRC+, and he's going in the wrong direction. I totally agree, but as of right now, he can be a stopper, if the sox are trying to be conservative with salary. throw him somewhere and hope for another 20+ homer season. but not to bat him 4-6 in the lineup. I am totally surprise in the Cuban factor of other players (Jose and Alexia) not trying to help him. the 20 hrs is nice esp at a low price, but for me it will be what is the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 10:24 AM) He only had 600 PA's because he struggled with ML pitching. Ortiz had 1200 and at his age 25 season put up a slash line of .234/.324/.475. That line is obviously better than Viciedos this season, however, the entire league was better offensively in 2001 than it is today. I am sure someone here knows where to find the differential factor between 2014 and 2001, but I think when applied, the numbers will not be all that different. I don't think hitting is Viciedos problem either, it is more being disciplined of when not to swing that gets him in trouble. That's why I cited wRC+, it factors in the league's offensive environment. Ortiz was at 100 in that season. Viciedo was at 88 last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 10:26 AM) Viciedo is a strange case. He just turned 20 when he was assigned to Birmingham. What would Courtney Hawkins have done in Birmingham this year? There are flashes. Early in 2014 it looked like he turned a corner. Maybe another year of Steverson would do the trick. This guy seems to have a different hitting coach every year. Steverson was quoted a couple of weeks ago saying how good Viciedo wants to be. You look at his physique and I one would tend to think he probably gets a little lazy, but apparently he is very hard working. You aren't going to get much for him, unless he is some throw in with a bigger trade, which would be fine. If the option is to let him go for nothing or trade him for someone else's crap, I think sticking with him one more year makes sense. I did listen to a Hahn interview at the end of the season, and he was asked about Viciedo's status. He pretty much danced around it. I would hope the Sox are mulling the third option, which is to non-tender him and avoid the risk of being on the hook for $4M and another year of a wasted roster spot. Let somebody else waste time and energy on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS 17s17 seconds ago dioner navarro seeks trade after martin signing. jays suggest dh-c combo but theres interest. http://cbsprt.co/1zGHAF8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 11:26 AM) Viciedo is a strange case. He just turned 20 when he was assigned to Birmingham. What would Courtney Hawkins have done in Birmingham this year? There are flashes. Early in 2014 it looked like he turned a corner. Maybe another year of Steverson would do the trick. This guy seems to have a different hitting coach every year. Steverson was quoted a couple of weeks ago saying how good Viciedo wants to be. You look at his physique and I one would tend to think he probably gets a little lazy, but apparently he is very hard working. You aren't going to get much for him, unless he is some throw in with a bigger trade, which would be fine. If the option is to let him go for nothing or trade him for someone else's crap, I think sticking with him one more year makes sense. I did listen to a Hahn interview at the end of the season, and he was asked about Viciedo's status. He pretty much danced around it. It's an interesting case, for sure. His salary is going to be JUST high enough that it feels like it costs something to keep him. Even though I'm as big a Viciedo-hater as anyone, I think I'd tender him a contract. If we fail to land a real solution in LF/DH, giving him another year probably IS the best choice. And worst case, if we DO get a real solution and you can't trade Viciedo, you can DFA him and only be out $4m. Seems like a good insurance policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 10:54 AM) Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS 17s17 seconds ago dioner navarro seeks trade after martin signing. jays suggest dh-c combo but theres interest. http://cbsprt.co/1zGHAF8 Run Roh, scoobie doo to the rescue! The Sox could use a LH bat at catcher and Navarro won't cost what Castro or Grandal would cost. Though I still prefer Grandal over all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 10:59 AM) It's an interesting case, for sure. His salary is going to be JUST high enough that it feels like it costs something to keep him. Even though I'm as big a Viciedo-hater as anyone, I think I'd tender him a contract. If we fail to land a real solution in LF/DH, giving him another year probably IS the best choice. And worst case, if we DO get a real solution and you can't trade Viciedo, you can DFA him and only be out $4m. Seems like a good insurance policy. This feels a lot like the Gordon Beckham situation again. We are pretty sure we as fans know what we have, but we can't say for certain and it'd be better to give him one more shot and make him fail again than to give him up and see him finally turn it around and succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 10:59 AM) It's an interesting case, for sure. His salary is going to be JUST high enough that it feels like it costs something to keep him. Even though I'm as big a Viciedo-hater as anyone, I think I'd tender him a contract. If we fail to land a real solution in LF/DH, giving him another year probably IS the best choice. And worst case, if we DO get a real solution and you can't trade Viciedo, you can DFA him and only be out $4m. Seems like a good insurance policy. I resent that. Viciedo's estimated arb is $4.4M, which is basically what we're paying Duke next year. It's not a big deal but it isn't nothing either and I'd prefer we didn't even put ourselves in that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 06:26 PM) I resent that. Viciedo's estimated arb is $4.4M, which is basically what we're paying Duke next year. It's not a big deal but it isn't nothing either and I'd prefer we didn't even put ourselves in that position. the price of pitchers and hitter, esp RP will always be different. 4 mil for a hitter who can hit at least 20+ hrs is worth that and at worst case a 1 yr commitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 He is still looking for the Jays to deal him. http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/...s-to-trade-him/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Feb 23, 2015 -> 01:15 PM) He is still looking for the Jays to deal him. http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/...s-to-trade-him/ Sox killer, but I'm content with the Sox catchers right now. I don't think Navarro is much of an upgrade to give up prospects for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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