Predict The Next Move

[GreenSox]

Do you really want Ethier now, after we just added a left handed hitter who rakes against RH pitching but who can't hit lefties?

No

It makes the team too one-dimensional. Add Gillaspie to the can't hit lefties column. Now if you can add a real RH who can hit, that might be okay. But Ethier should basically come for picking up some salary. Even danks is too much to give.

Edited November 25, 2014 by GreenSox

[Jerksticks]

Yes, you would certainly think that would be the case. However, apparently our organization has not shared our embracement of this principle. We haven't had much left handed,

potent hitting, in quite a while.

 

I often think that this team was constructed upside down, with almost all Left handed pitchers, and almost all right handed hitters. It has always seemed very perplexing to me.

I think that's because it's just never available. Every team wants it and nobody can get it. You're talking about the best hitters in the game.

[Eminor3rd]

Yes, you would certainly think that would be the case. However, apparently our organization has not shared our embracement of this principle. We haven't had much left handed,

potent hitting, in quite a while.

 

I often think that this team was constructed upside down, with almost all Left handed pitchers, and almost all right handed hitters. It has always seemed very perplexing to me.

 

I wouldn't assume it's for lack of trying, though.

[Lillian]

I wouldn't assume it's for lack of trying, though.

 

OK. Then, let's try a little harder!!! We need one more potent LH bat, to fill the remaining OF slot.

[LDF]

Juan Francisco has been DFA.... I wonder if he will be a nice backup plan for

the sox at 3b.

 

nice offensive numbers, kind of went down last yr.

 

edit~~~ I screwed up on the team. sorry.

Edited November 26, 2014 by LDF

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I think that you have certainly established the argument that we need left-handed hitters. I think we all agree. I like that LaRoche addressed that, and I think we're fortunate that we're actually in a market where left-handed power is less expensive than right-handed power.

 

As for Ethier: the idea of him makes sense, but his cost is truly prohibitive. I think he's popular on here for people who assume he'll come with salary relief, but we need to remember that if he does, he'll cost us talent. The only way we get him "free" is if we take the money. To me, there was room for one high-money, one dimensional acquisition for left-handed power, and that went to LaRoche. I think if we eat another $10-15m on Ethier, we're going to find ourselves hard-pressed to make the pitching upgrades we need to make for the team to have a fighting chance at a WC berth in 2015.

 

All of that said, the next biggest priority behind pitching has GOT to be a left-handed LF, IMO. I just don't know that Ethier is the answer.

Which is why Melky is ideal . That way he can be in the lineup against LH and RH thereby limiting the effectiveness of a LH reliever. Seems to me though that Hahn is doing his damnedest not to give up that 2nd rd pick . Maybe another SH like Zobrist (FA 2016) ,Dexter Fowler ( FA 2016) or Angel Pagan (FA 2017) coming back from injury could be options.

[GreenSox]

Won't give up a second round pick, but will give up quality prospect(s) for a 1 year player?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Won't give up a second round pick, but will give up quality prospect(s) for a 1 year player?

Just throwing names out there. How we acquire them is not up to me nor did I suggest we would give up prospects for them.

 

Brock Holt is a good utility type player LH 26 years old. Maybe would be a good regular. Played all over the diamond for the Red Sox. Maybe he get's squeezed out.

 

2014 Games By Position: PH (1), 1B (8), LF (8), CF (10), 2B (11), SS (12), RF (35), 3B (39)

Edited November 26, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[thxfrthmmrs]

The short answer is YES. Look, it’s common wisdom that most hitters hit pitchers from the other side better. Since most of the good pitchers, and in fact, most pitchers, are right handed,

there is an inherent advantage to a lineup consisting of several good left handed hitters.

Therefore, yes, I'd love the Sox to be able to put a lineup on the field, on those typical days when they are facing a RH pitcher, that had Abreu, LaRoche, Garcia and Ethier hitting in the middle of the order.

 

It's the same reason that I'm a little intrigued by the potential of Juan Diaz, who also seems to hit RHP pretty well, for a good defensive SS. If Alexei is traded, it will be interesting to see

if he figures into the mix, for the SS competition.

 

Ever since Quinary called you out for constantly suggesting LH bat for the Sox, I noticed this is a theme in just about every post of yours.

 

In a perfect world, your logic would make perfect sense. But baseball isn't a perfect world, there are many variability that will negate your advantage. Starting with late game situations, do you really want to stack your team with players who are absolutely useless when the opposing team brings in a loogy? What about when your team faces a left handed starter, then you will have 3 regulars, LaRoche, Gillaspie, and say Ethier that have to be benched on that given day. There is a reason you didn't see the likes of those 3 guys competing for batting titles, they are bound to face lefties, which will regress their BA over time. The purpose of having LH in your lineup is to avoid teams from stacking pitchers with a specific handedness against you, but you do not have to do it to the extreme if you want to win games. I'd rather have reliable hitters who can consistently hit pitchers of either handedness, who you can rely on late in games, and who can stay on the field every game.

 

At this point, I think the bigger need is defense for our LF. We already have a question mark in Avi in RF, we can't cripple ourselves by targeting a LH bat only guy like Either. If we can get a good fielder who also happens to be a good LH bat, great. But that LH bat shouldn't be our top priority at this point.

[Dunt]

I find it odd that the Sox haven't really been linked to a RHSP despite everyone saying they are looking for one. Waiting on Maeda?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I find it odd that the Sox haven't really been linked to a RHSP despite everyone saying they are looking for one. Waiting on Maeda?

The domino's have to start falling . All the big signings have been posiion players so far. It will be sorted out .

[Lillian]

Ever since Quinary called you out for constantly suggesting LH bat for the Sox, I noticed this is a theme in just about every post of yours.

 

In a perfect world, your logic would make perfect sense. But baseball isn't a perfect world, there are many variability that will negate your advantage. Starting with late game situations, do you really want to stack your team with players who are absolutely useless when the opposing team brings in a loogy? What about when your team faces a left handed starter, then you will have 3 regulars, LaRoche, Gillaspie, and say Ethier that have to be benched on that given day. There is a reason you didn't see the likes of those 3 guys competing for batting titles, they are bound to face lefties, which will regress their BA over time. The purpose of having LH in your lineup is to avoid teams from stacking pitchers with a specific handedness against you, but you do not have to do it to the extreme if you want to win games. I'd rather have reliable hitters who can consistently hit pitchers of either handedness, who you can rely on late in games, and who can stay on the field every game.

 

At this point, I think the bigger need is defense for our LF. We already have a question mark in Avi in RF, we can't cripple ourselves by targeting a LH bat only guy like Either. If we can get a good fielder who also happens to be a good LH bat, great. But that LH bat shouldn't be our top priority at this point.

 

It's a "theme" in my posts, because we are having a discussion about it. When the discussion is over, I'll be happy to change the subject.

In the meantime, to continue the discussion, and address your specific comments:

It's very difficult for an opposing team to counter all of the good LH hitters, with LOOGY's, late in the game. How many good LH Relievers do most teams have?

Moreover, when it comes to the critical final inning, how many closers are left handed?

The same argument that you're making could be applied to a team that is "stacked" with right handed hitters.

If Avi performs up to expectations we have our RH hitters in Abreu and Garcia. At the moment we have 1 dangerous LH hitter in LaRoche.

I do agree with you that ideally we could find either a switch hitting, good defensive outfielder, or at least one who hit acceptably well vs. LHP.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Juan Francisco has been DFA.... I wonder if he will be a nice backup plan for

the sox at 3b.

 

nice offensive numbers, kind of went down last yr.

 

edit~~~ I screwed up on the team. sorry.

 

If got to Boston, that means the White Sox passed on him once already.

[thxfrthmmrs]

It's a "theme" in my posts, because we are having a discussion about it. When the discussion is over, I'll be happy to change the subject.

In the meantime, to continue the discussion, and address your specific comments:

It's very difficult for an opposing team to counter all of the good LH hitters, with LOOGY's, late in the game. How many good LH Relievers do most teams have?

Moreover, when it comes to the critical final inning, how many closers are left handed?

The same argument that you're making could be applied to a team that is "stacked" with right handed hitters.

If Avi performs up to expectations we have our RH hitters in Abreu and Garcia. At the moment we have 1 dangerous LH hitter in LaRoche.

I do agree with you that ideally we could find either a switch hitting, good defensive outfielder, or at least one who hit acceptably well vs. LHP.

 

 

The purpose of a loogy is to get LH hitters out, you should assume they are good against lefties. Furthermore, LaRoche, Ethier and Gillaspie are just awful against lefties, it doesn't take a good loogy to get them out.

 

In the final critical inning, if you have a deadly LH bat against a RH closer, many times mangers will bring in a lefty to face the batter then bring in a closer. You are trying to game the system with a hitter that has his flaws, so opposing managers will be creative in negating your advantage. Your suggested scenario does not happen as often as you think it does. If you want a good bat against RH pitchers late in games, a LH bench player should do a fine job as well.

 

If bringing a lefty will help the team solve other flaws, namely defensively and baserunning, as well, then by all means. But bringing in a bat only player who further magnifies the team's flaws, then no thanks. I just want to clarify my opinion on what the Sox's priorities should be.

[BlackSox13]

Just want to point out that heavy right handed hitting lineups do not always work out against a left handed starting pitcher. Also, the Sox have been starved for quality left handed bats. The only left handed bats that have shown signs of life on a daily basis are Gillaspie and Eaton. The Sox have added LaRoche but could use another left handed hitting outfielder ( preferably with some pop) which is why the names of Ethier, CarGo and Crawford have been mentioned/ rumored. LaRoche is the lone power bat from the left side at the moment and seeing as how the Sox have a gaping hole in LF it makes sense the Sox would look for a left handed bat for LF.

Edited November 26, 2014 by StRoostifer

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just want to point out that heavy right handed hitting lineups do not always work out against a left handed starting pitcher. Also, the Sox have been starved for quality left handed bats. The only left handed bats that have shown signs of life on a daily basis are Gillaspie and Eaton. The Sox have added LaRoche but could use another left handed hitting outfielder ( preferably with some pop) which is why the names of Ethier, CarGo and Crawford have been mentioned/ rumored. LaRoche is the lone power bat from the left side at the moment and seeing as how the Sox have a gaping hole in LF it makes sense the Sox would look for a left handed bat for LF.

Melky, Rasmus and Saunders. I'm also adding Brock Holt to the list (See my post in Red Sox OF's thread for more in depth on him)

Edited November 26, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[BlackSox13]

Melky, Rasmus and Saunders. I'm also adding Brock Holt to the list (See my post in Red Sox OF's thread for more in depth on him)

Holt is interesting. I just looked him up and the only positions he didn't play at in 2014 were catcher and pitcher. The kid definitely has versatility and seems to play solid defense wherever he's at.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Holt is interesting. I just looked him up and the only positions he didn't play at in 2014 were catcher and pitcher. The kid definitely has versatility and seems to play solid defense wherever he's at.

 

Please, anything to get Leury Garcia back to AAA.

 

Actually, I'd prefer Holt to Danks or Saladino as well. But at what cost for "Zobrist Lite"?

[Thad Bosley]

Melky, Rasmus and Saunders. I'm also adding Brock Holt to the list (See my post in Red Sox OF's thread for more in depth on him)

I don't think it'll be any of those guys, quite frankly. Mr. Kenny Williams is on record right now stating that when our roster is finally completed, Sox fans will be able to "dream again" about returning to the postseason. With the two, maybe three, remaining big holes to fill in LF, RH starter, and maybe 3B, I don't think adding any of those four outfielders really moves the needle to get us dreaming about anything. Whoever they get for that corner outfield spot is going to be a bigger name than any of those four guys you mentioned. I mean, think of it: you add one of those four guys to play left, then you sign one of the second tier RH starter free agents. Would that get you dreaming about anything, other than maybe a triumphant return to having a .500 ball club? It just doesn't add up.

 

I don't know how they're going to pull it off, but I think they have a splashy move coming our way, maybe even two, that will genuinely have us all excited about our chances both in 2015 and beyond. But again, I don't think it involves the likes of Rasmus, Saunders, or certainly Holt. Maybe, just maybe, Cabrera, but even he, I don't think it's going to be him, either.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Please, anything to get Leury Garcia back to AAA.

 

Actually, I'd prefer Holt to Danks or Saladino as well. But at what cost for "Zobrist Lite"?

I was looking at his MiL stats too and in 2012 at AAA for 95 AB's he hit .432 . Can't call him Zobrist lite because he's not a switch hitter , he's LH but since he hits LH's well it's almost like he's a switch hitter. I know you called him that because of his D versatility though

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I don't think it'll be any of those guys, quite frankly. Mr. Kenny Williams is on record right now stating that when our roster is finally completed, Sox fans will be able to "dream again" about returning to the postseason. With the two, maybe three, remaining big holes to fill in LF, RH starter, and maybe 3B, I don't think adding any of those four outfielders really moves the needle to get us dreaming about anything. Whoever they get for that corner outfield spot is going to be a bigger name than any of those four guys you mentioned. I mean, think of it: you add one of those four guys to play left, then you sign one of the second tier RH starter free agents. Would that get you dreaming about anything, other than maybe a triumphant return to having a .500 ball club? It just doesn't add up.

 

I don't know how they're going to pull it off, but I think they have a splashy move coming our way, maybe even two, that will genuinely have us all excited about our chances both in 2015 and beyond. But again, I don't think it involves the likes of Rasmus, Saunders, or certainly Holt. Maybe, just maybe, Cabrera, but even he, I don't think it's going to be him, either.

Could be a big name pitcher . The lineup already is better with a full year of Avi and LaRoche so it's not like a huge name is necessary at the remaining positions, just a nice little upgrade would do just fine. A more talented roster , if you will, rather than the stars with the stiffs.

 

It's the starting rotation that could have the biggest impact name added to it. Besides KW likes being interviewed and coming up with quotable stuff. The Sox really have nothing to trade with unless Hahn dips into the minors and that would be counter-productive to his original plan.

[witesoxfan]

If got to Boston, that means the White Sox passed on him once already.

 

Boston had a worse record than the Sox did this year so that's not necessarily true. Still, Francisco wouldn't add a lot to the Sox. He's a left handed hitter who's bad defensively. He's also struck out at a 34.4% clip for his career, has only a 7.4% walk rate, and he can't hit lefties. He'd have virtually no spot on the Sox roster and if both Gillaspie and Semien were to get hurt - your #1 and #2 on the 3B depth chart as of this moment - I'd rather throw Davidson into the fire as there's limited data on him as opposed to Francisco where we basically know what we have already.

[southsider2k5]

Boston had a worse record than the Sox did this year so that's not necessarily true. Still, Francisco wouldn't add a lot to the Sox. He's a left handed hitter who's bad defensively. He's also struck out at a 34.4% clip for his career, has only a 7.4% walk rate, and he can't hit lefties. He'd have virtually no spot on the Sox roster and if both Gillaspie and Semien were to get hurt - your #1 and #2 on the 3B depth chart as of this moment - I'd rather throw Davidson into the fire as there's limited data on him as opposed to Francisco where we basically know what we have already.

 

Holy crap, I didn't realize Boston only won 71 games last year.

 

[BlackSox13]

Please, anything to get Leury Garcia back to AAA.

 

Actually, I'd prefer Holt to Danks or Saladino as well. But at what cost for "Zobrist Lite"?

Yeah, no doubt Leury can use more time at Charlotte and I agree with ya about taking Holt over Danks/ Saladino. As far as cost, I haven't a clue. I know Boston already has too many outfielders and their infield seems set as well with the exception of catcher so pitching would likely be what they seek. Sale and Q are out of the question IMO but you think there's any chance Boston would be interested in Noesi?

[caulfield12]

Yeah, no doubt Leury can use more time at Charlotte and I agree with ya about taking Holt over Danks/ Saladino. As far as cost, I haven't a clue. I know Boston already has too many outfielders and their infield seems set as well with the exception of catcher so pitching would likely be what they seek. Sale and Q are out of the question IMO but you think there's any chance Boston would be interested in Noesi?

 

 

Noesi's too valuable to the Sox because he's insurance to at least hold down the fort at the back end of the rotation while waiting for reinforcements and/or Bassit/Beck to have an impact before Rodon comes up for good.

 

Boston wouldn't gamble with Noesi as their 5, and it's sort of like the Phil Humber or McHugh situations, where players that have been waived by other teams still aren't deemed trustworthy in terms of giving up much talent.

 

I wouldn't mind the trade itself, if I knew we were going to have replacements for Noesi, but the trade in and of itself doesn't make sense strategically for where we are at this point in the off-season. If we had Brett Anderson and Hochevar on the roster, it would be more comfortable to deal Noesi, but he still needs another 1/2 year of consistency to build up a bit more value IMO.