Cops kill kid who had toy gun at park

[greg775]

So a 12 year old kid has a gun at the park and is "scaring" some people with it.

An onlooker calls the cops instead of walking over and grabbing the toy gun off the picnic table and seeing what is going on with the kid.

Cops are called. According to the cop he sees the gun on the table, then the kid ultimately picks it up, has it in his belt. Cops tell him to drop it. He doesn't and they kill the kid.

 

Things IMO that went wrong that cost a 12 year old his life. ...

a.) The busy body onlooker should have walked over and grabbed the toy gun when it was on the table. Was there really an eminent danger here? Nobody was leaving the park during all this time the kid was scaring people because they probably were sure the gun was a toy.

b.) Does protocal really call for shooting and killing the kid when he won't respond? There are no alternatives?

 

More details will probably come out or might not, but just because a 12 year old kid is a brat and "scaring" people by having a toy in the park doesn't mean he needs to die. I'm sure when I was a kid, bratty neighborhood kids did inappropriate stuff that didn't result in the cops killing you.

 

Details aren't all out and probably will never be, but this sounds like an unnecessary death. The guy who called the cops is the first person I think erred in this case. So we can't investigate things ourselves? We always got to call the cops who over-react?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/boy-fake-gun-dies-sh...-170034176.html

 

 

[Brian]

Obviously the busy body onlooker thought the gun was real, so why would they just go over and grab it?

Sad situation but not blaming the person who reported it. They thought it was real.

[Quin]

This just makes me sad. Jesus.

[greg775]

Obviously the busy body onlooker thought the gun was real, so why would they just go over and grab it?

Sad situation but not blaming the person who reported it. They thought it was real.

 

According to the story the guy who called the cops said it probably was a fake gun. Why can't people ever observe, assess and do something? Didn't sound like this was that dangerous a park scene. Be that as it may, does the cop have to remove the kid from this world? No other alternatives to fix this situation??

 

I mean remember the kid was 12. Like I said there's a lot of bratty behavior in our world; you used to not have to die for being a punk or a bully or whatever he was doing.

 

Maybe death is the proper outcome for this situation. That's what the cop obviously decided had to be the solution to this problem. I think not, however.

Edited November 23, 2014 by greg775

[iamshack]

Greg, how would you like the cop to be your dad, or brother, or son? What are these police officers supposed to do when this kid takes a toy gun, with the orange safety indicator removed and is waving it around? How does he know it's fake? What if the kid shoots someone? Or fires at the officer?

 

I agree it would be nice if he could have fired at his leg or something, but the kid put himself in a position to be killed, and unfortunately he was.

 

People and parents have to be much more careful than this.

[southsider2k5]

Greg, how would you like the cop to be your dad, or brother, or son? What are these police officers supposed to do when this kid takes a toy gun, with the orange safety indicator removed and is waving it around? How does he know it's fake? What if the kid shoots someone? Or fires at the officer?

 

I agree it would be nice if he could have fired at his leg or something, but the kid put himself in a position to be killed, and unfortunately he was.

 

People and parents have to be much more careful than this.

 

And I would bet that no one feels worse than the officer.

[Balta1701]

Can't get past the contrast with this.

[Jake]

Seems like there was a key breakdown in communication in which 911 operator did not lead cops to believe there was any doubt whether the gun was real.

[LittleHurt05]

Last month at the park there was a kid, maybe 7 or 8 years old, running around with a fake Russian machine gun strapped around his neck. (Of course his parents were polocks like me) We live in a town that has had about 2 murders in 10 years, but still, what the f***? I can't imagine any situation today where it's OK for anybody to run around with a fake gun like that.

[greg775]

Greg, how would you like the cop to be your dad, or brother, or son? What are these police officers supposed to do when this kid takes a toy gun, with the orange safety indicator removed and is waving it around? How does he know it's fake? What if the kid shoots someone? Or fires at the officer?

 

I agree it would be nice if he could have fired at his leg or something, but the kid put himself in a position to be killed, and unfortunately he was.

 

People and parents have to be much more careful than this.

 

I'm assuming some things here, but let me quickly give you this scenario.

 

I imagine I'm at the park in the afternoon and kids are playing. There's a 12 year old kid with a gun and he's scaring people. He hasn't shot the gun. He's just being a bully or whatever. A pest.

Obviously nobody thinks it's a real gun or people would flee the park which apparently wasn't happening.

 

Instead of calling the fricking cops, I walk over and pick up the gun off the table when the 12 year old puts it on the table. Yes I actually get involved. Yes I am risking getting beat up by the parents of the 12 year old or shot by the 12 year old, but I'm pretty sure it's not a real gun. When I grab the gun I see if it's real or not. If it's not real I put it down and say something to the kid that's not real mean, just maybe you shouldn't scare the other kids. If it's real, well I keep it and call the cops and quickly tell them to NOT SHOOT ME when they arrive to pick up the gun.

 

I really truly don't think you need to end the 12-year-old's life over this. If my assumptions in this case prove false, then I'll change my position. But I don't think the cops need to show up and kill a kid over this transgression.

 

Yes ... if I'm brother of the cop I don't want some 12 year old ending my brother's life. I just happen to believe this situation did not need to end with a cop killing the 12 year old. I think this situation also dictated some onlookers perhaps getting involved.

 

If it's police protocol to kill in this situation ... fine.

 

[greg775]

These cops needed to be fired ... period.

 

12 year old boy dies in this case? Disgusting.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2...related_stories

[southsideirish71]

I'm assuming some things here, but let me quickly give you this scenario.

 

I imagine I'm at the park in the afternoon and kids are playing. There's a 12 year old kid with a gun and he's scaring people. He hasn't shot the gun. He's just being a bully or whatever. A pest.

Obviously nobody thinks it's a real gun or people would flee the park which apparently wasn't happening.

 

Instead of calling the fricking cops, I walk over and pick up the gun off the table when the 12 year old puts it on the table. Yes I actually get involved. Yes I am risking getting beat up by the parents of the 12 year old or shot by the 12 year old, but I'm pretty sure it's not a real gun. When I grab the gun I see if it's real or not. If it's not real I put it down and say something to the kid that's not real mean, just maybe you shouldn't scare the other kids. If it's real, well I keep it and call the cops and quickly tell them to NOT SHOOT ME when they arrive to pick up the gun.

 

I really truly don't think you need to end the 12-year-old's life over this. If my assumptions in this case prove false, then I'll change my position. But I don't think the cops need to show up and kill a kid over this transgression.

 

Yes ... if I'm brother of the cop I don't want some 12 year old ending my brother's life. I just happen to believe this situation did not need to end with a cop killing the 12 year old. I think this situation also dictated some onlookers perhaps getting involved.

 

If it's police protocol to kill in this situation ... fine.

 

If you see someone with a gun and you don't call the cops. You are being a moron. I know you are very naive and live in some sort of Mayberry bubble in Kansas but come on now. I was stabbed in my leg in lovely Mount Greenwood when I was in the 5th grade by another 11 year old during a fight. I am sure he was a wonderful boy and just got mixed up. Maybe he thought he was reaching for his legos. Maybe he thought it was a fake weapon. I don't know. That wonderful child wound up in prison later in life. Some children are not the lego playing rapscallions messing around and goofing with the local kids. Some of them are warming up for a bad decision that can affect someones life. Or the other possibility. We see plenty of examples where they get a real weapon that their wonderful parents left out. They decide to show off, play around with it. It could be that he doesn't understand that a real weapon is loaded or not. And sometimes accidents happen. Enough examples of kids accidentally shooting a family member or a friend with a real gun they thought was not loaded. So if I see something that looks like a weapon I am not going to confront the kid. I don't know if its real or not. And to be honest I don't trust the judgement of a child when it comes to things like that. I will call the police. Now I don't know if the police officer acted correctly, but the idea that you see a person with a gun and can determine if its real or not its amazing. Greg they don't have the big orange ends on them and shoot sparks like the ones you played with as a kid. This is a tragedy. A young life is gone and will never come back.

 

 

http://www.news4jax.com/news/police-12year...ss-man/27243908

http://wnep.com/2014/10/13/10-year-old-boy...year-old-woman/

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/justice/wisc...n-girl-stabbed/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-22...r-sentence.html

Edited November 24, 2014 by southsideirish71

[greg775]

If you see someone with a gun and you don't call the cops. You are being a moron. I know you are very naive and live in some sort of Mayberry bubble in Kansas but come on now. I was stabbed in my leg in lovely Mount Greenwood when I was in the 5th grade by another 11 year old during a fight. I am sure he was a wonderful boy and just got mixed up. Maybe he thought he was reaching for his legos. Maybe he thought it was a fake weapon. I don't know. That wonderful child wound up in prison later in life. Some children are not the lego playing rapscallions messing around and goofing with the local kids. Some of them are warming up for a bad decision that can affect someones life. Or the other possibility. We see plenty of examples where they get a real weapon that their wonderful parents left out. They decide to show off, play around with it. It could be that he doesn't understand that a real weapon is loaded or not. And sometimes accidents happen. Enough examples of kids accidentally shooting a family member or a friend with a real gun they thought was not loaded. So if I see something that looks like a weapon I am not going to confront the kid. I don't know if its real or not. And to be honest I don't trust the judgement of a child when it comes to things like that. I will call the police. Now I don't know if the police officer acted correctly, but the idea that you see a person with a gun and can determine if its real or not its amazing. Greg they don't have the big orange ends on them and shoot sparks like the ones you played with as a kid. This is a tragedy. A young life is gone and will never come back.

 

 

http://www.news4jax.com/news/police-12year...ss-man/27243908

http://wnep.com/2014/10/13/10-year-old-boy...year-old-woman/

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/justice/wisc...n-girl-stabbed/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-22...r-sentence.html

I do appreciate your comments. And it's awful you got stabbed by an 11 year old. I resent the naive stuff. I also grew up in Mt. Greenwood and we moved when my dad started to make some serious money and we fled to suburbia partly to escape some of the punks roaming the streets. I got chased a few times myself.

 

I just have a sneaky suspicion this situation was not that dangerous. Nobody seemed too concerned about this kid with the gun. We hear no reports of anybody fleeing or anything.

I will say your description of the possible scene seems a lot more implausible than mine. The cop said the weapon was on the bench for a while. Then the kid picked it up again. Without being "naive" I do think it might have been possible in this situation for somebody to diffuse it. If this situation developed like I'm picturing it (quite an assumption I know) yes I probably would have gotten involved in the manner I described.

 

12 year old kid? Have you seen the picture of the kid yet? Baby faced kid. I know danger lurks everywhere and I realize you got stabbed, but my initial reaction is this is a BLATANT overreaction in killing this 12 year old.

 

p.s. I reread your post and it probably does make sense to call the cops. It's very sad the message didn't get to the cop that the one caller said it was probably a toy. That's inexcusable. This 12 year old shouldn't have been killed over this.

Edited November 24, 2014 by greg775

[witesoxfan]

p.s. I reread your post and it probably does make sense to call the cops. It's very sad the message didn't get to the cop that the one caller said it was probably a toy. That's inexcusable. This 12 year old shouldn't have been killed over this.

 

Then the parents should have intervened and taken the toy gun from him or not allowed him to remove the orange cap.

 

There's a chain of events and you are looking at the end result and saying "he shouldn't be dead." It's the same thing as looking at people who die from a drug overdose and saying "they shouldn't be dead." Those people shouldn't have been using so many drugs that it ended up killing them but controls and steps were not taken to remove the stimulus from the equation and that results in bad situations for the party. Immediately pointing fingers at the cops is not the right thing to do. Parents need to take control of their families and not allow them to be in that situation.

[Milkman delivers]

Greg, the real issue is that most departments offer bonuses to any cop that gets into a shooting. The bonuses grow if the person is paralyzed or killed. And some even have kickers that depend on the age of the person shot, often increasing on either end of the age spectrum.

[StrangeSox]

Greg, the real issue is that most departments offer bonuses to any cop that gets into a shooting. The bonuses grow if the person is paralyzed or killed. And some even have kickers that depend on the age of the person shot, often increasing on either end of the age spectrum.

lol

 

so that's what the Saints modeled their bounty system on

Edited November 24, 2014 by StrangeSox

[southsider2k5]

Greg, the real issue is that most departments offer bonuses to any cop that gets into a shooting. The bonuses grow if the person is paralyzed or killed. And some even have kickers that depend on the age of the person shot, often increasing on either end of the age spectrum.

 

The sad thing is following some of the responses I have seen to this case, it wouldn't shock me if a lot of people out there thought this was true.

[Balta1701]

The sad thing is following some of the responses I have seen to this case, it wouldn't shock me if a lot of people out there thought this was true.

You've really nailed the downside of this shooting. The police officer feels terrible and people are saying silly things. How awful for those who have to endure this true suffering.

[StrangeSox]

I'm pretty happy I didn't get shot to death when I pulled the orange cap off of a bb gun when I was probably about 11 or 12. My mom wasn't too happy with me though when she saw it.

[NorthSideSox72]

Greg, it all comes down to this: in current day American society, you see someone with a gun, unless you somehow know for a FACT it is fake, you have to assume it is real. The situation progressed from there, sadly. It's sad all around, but I have a hard time blaming the cop in this case, if the facts are as being reported.

 

You've really nailed the downside of this shooting. The police officer feels terrible and people are saying silly things. How awful for those who have to endure this true suffering.

 

The heck is wrong with you? A 12 year old kid was shot because he and/or his parents were stupid. A cop now has to live with said shooting the rest of his life, as to the kids parents and family, the witnesses, and everyone else. It's all pretty flippin sad for everyone involved.

 

But by all means, make it seem like someone, anyone, is trying to say all our sympathy should be with the cop and no one else. And while you're at it, continue with your Hollywood-inspired falsehood of thinking a cop shooting a kid is just "feels terrible" about people saying silly things. Clearly the cop deserves no sympathy here, right?

 

F that.

 

[StrangeSox]

I don't actually see anyone expressing sympathy for the parents or the dead child in this thread, though. Instead, I see them being called stupid.

 

edit: except ssi71, who did call it a tragedy.

Edited November 24, 2014 by StrangeSox

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't actually see anyone expressing sympathy for the parents or the dead child in this thread, though. Instead, I see them being called stupid.

 

edit: except ssi71, who did call it a tragedy.

It goes without saying. A 12 year old kid, even if he did do a series of stupid things, dying like this is awful. It is abundantly clear, and all I'm sure would agree, that is the biggest tragedy here.

 

My response was to the flippant view some take on the cop's side of things. It bothers me, a lot.

 

[Balta1701]

Clearly the cop deserves no sympathy here, right?

I'd say that's at the very least debatable, as we've seen in this thread.

[greg775]

Last month at the park there was a kid, maybe 7 or 8 years old, running around with a fake Russian machine gun strapped around his neck. (Of course his parents were polocks like me) We live in a town that has had about 2 murders in 10 years, but still, what the f***? I can't imagine any situation today where it's OK for anybody to run around with a fake gun like that.

And yet that kid with the fake Russian gun is not dead. Hmm. That situation actually got resolved.

 

Then the parents should have intervened and taken the toy gun from him or not allowed him to remove the orange cap.

 

There's a chain of events and you are looking at the end result and saying "he shouldn't be dead." It's the same thing as looking at people who die from a drug overdose and saying "they shouldn't be dead." Those people shouldn't have been using so many drugs that it ended up killing them but controls and steps were not taken to remove the stimulus from the equation and that results in bad situations for the party. Immediately pointing fingers at the cops is not the right thing to do. Parents need to take control of their families and not allow them to be in that situation.

You know what, I disagree. s***, I never even heard of an orange cap. You still don't need to die over something like this. How bout a cop in this case do a better job of solving this situation? It's possible you know.

 

Greg, the real issue is that most departments offer bonuses to any cop that gets into a shooting. The bonuses grow if the person is paralyzed or killed. And some even have kickers that depend on the age of the person shot, often increasing on either end of the age spectrum.

You mean to tell me this situation couldn't have been resolved without a death? Pretty poor police work, sir. It's my right to say we expect better from police. You know, we do pay taxpayer dollars. People expect me to do a f***ing good job in my line of work; I do EXPECT you, Milkman, to do a better job in your line of work rather than to f***ing kill 12 year olds with toy guns.

 

I'm pretty happy I didn't get shot to death when I pulled the orange cap off of a bb gun when I was probably about 11 or 12. My mom wasn't too happy with me though when she saw it.

Exactly. I guess you could have died and some would say should have died had you pointed it in a park at somebody, maybe even at nobody, just if people were around.

[Jenksismyhero]

So a 12 year old kid has a gun at the park and is "scaring" some people with it.

An onlooker calls the cops instead of walking over and grabbing the toy gun off the picnic table and seeing what is going on with the kid.

Cops are called. According to the cop he sees the gun on the table, then the kid ultimately picks it up, has it in his belt. Cops tell him to drop it. He doesn't and they kill the kid.

 

Things IMO that went wrong that cost a 12 year old his life. ...

a.) The busy body onlooker should have walked over and grabbed the toy gun when it was on the table. Was there really an eminent danger here? Nobody was leaving the park during all this time the kid was scaring people because they probably were sure the gun was a toy.

b.) Does protocal really call for shooting and killing the kid when he won't respond? There are no alternatives?

 

More details will probably come out or might not, but just because a 12 year old kid is a brat and "scaring" people by having a toy in the park doesn't mean he needs to die. I'm sure when I was a kid, bratty neighborhood kids did inappropriate stuff that didn't result in the cops killing you.

 

Details aren't all out and probably will never be, but this sounds like an unnecessary death. The guy who called the cops is the first person I think erred in this case. So we can't investigate things ourselves? We always got to call the cops who over-react?

 

http://news.yahoo.com/boy-fake-gun-dies-sh...-170034176.html

 

What part of "person with a gun" and "scaring others" would make a sane, rational person just waltz on over to see what is going on? Assuming all the facts are true, I see nothing but a tragedy all around here. You've got a concerned citizen doing their job, a cop doing their job, and a kid being a dumb kid.