Cops kill kid who had toy gun at park

[greg775]

What part of "person with a gun" and "scaring others" would make a sane, rational person just waltz on over to see what is going on? Assuming all the facts are true, I see nothing but a tragedy all around here. You've got a concerned citizen doing their job, a cop doing their job, and a kid being a dumb kid.

 

It doesn't sound to me like the scene was threatening. Again, it sounds like the kid was more an irritant than a threat. Nobody was fleeing or anything because of this toy gun. If anybody was really worried they'd be heading out of there.

If we're at the stage of our lives people can accept 12 year olds getting killed in a situation like this, I think we're at a bad stage. Not saying you, but some people seem OK with the outcome.

I'm saying if the situation had played out like I am thinking it played out, yes I probably would go over to the table and say something or grab the toy gun. Would I get punched by the kid's parents or maybe even the kid? I guess.

I'm anxious to see the tape which exists. Again, I'm going more by "12 year old kid" in this deal. Twelve year old kids are not all that menacing. Now could a 12year old cause trouble with a real gun? Sure.

I do think the cops have to be fired in this case. There had to be a different outcome than this one. How bout using a tazer? Oh I know, they don't always work. I guess the 12 year old might have only been knocked off balance a bit with a tazer.

[Jenksismyhero]

It doesn't sound to me like the scene was threatening. Again, it sounds like the kid was more an irritant than a threat. Nobody was fleeing or anything because of this toy gun. If anybody was really worried they'd be heading out of there.

 

But you don't know that and the concerned citizen didn't know that, hence why he called the cops.

 

If we're at the stage of our lives people can accept 12 year olds getting killed in a situation like this, I think we're at a bad stage. Not saying you, but some people seem OK with the outcome.

 

Being "ok" with it and not wanting to make the tragedy worse by ruining the officers life even more (the guilt and PTSD for this will be life long probably) are two different things. No one thinks a 12 year old being killed is "ok."

 

I'm saying if the situation had played out like I am thinking it played out, yes I probably would go over to the table and say something or grab the toy gun. Would I get punched by the kid's parents or maybe even the kid? I guess.

 

And when you get shot and killed for waltzing up to someone who is waiving a gun in the air we can all be "ok" with the fact that Darwin won again.

 

I'm anxious to see the tape which exists. Again, I'm going more by "12 year old kid" in this deal. Twelve year old kids are not all that menacing. Now could a 12year old cause trouble with a real gun? Sure.

 

I do think the cops have to be fired in this case. There had to be a different outcome than this one. How bout using a tazer? Oh I know, they don't always work. I guess the 12 year old might have only been knocked off balance a bit with a tazer.

 

This is the really annoying commentary permeating the country in response to these shootings. You and others have this mentality that cops are mythical figures that can do the right thing 100% of the time. Cops are people. People make mistakes in judgment in emergency situations. People fear for their safety. Cops in particular are targets of violence. Why cops have to risk their lives even more than they already do to make someone on the internet using hindsight feel better is beyond me. If a cop walks into a situation with a potential gun toting person, young or old, and that person doesn't comply with orders and becomes a threat to the safety of the officers or others, the decision of the person in that situation - not the person sitting on his computer reading articles about what happened - should prevail. Yes, there should be a review. Yes, there should be some bar that a cop has to meet before using deadly force. But absent something practically egregious, you don't second guess that decision because no one can replicate that moment. None of this "but maybe there was time to try X and Y, and why didn't they at least try this or that."

 

 

[greg775]

But you don't know that and the concerned citizen didn't know that, hence why he called the cops.

 

 

 

Being "ok" with it and not wanting to make the tragedy worse by ruining the officers life even more (the guilt and PTSD for this will be life long probably) are two different things. No one thinks a 12 year old being killed is "ok."

 

 

 

And when you get shot and killed for waltzing up to someone who is waiving a gun in the air we can all be "ok" with the fact that Darwin won again.

 

 

 

This is the really annoying commentary permeating the country in response to these shootings. You and others have this mentality that cops are mythical figures that can do the right thing 100% of the time. Cops are people. People make mistakes in judgment in emergency situations. People fear for their safety. Cops in particular are targets of violence. Why cops have to risk their lives even more than they already do to make someone on the internet using hindsight feel better is beyond me. If a cop walks into a situation with a potential gun toting person, young or old, and that person doesn't comply with orders and becomes a threat to the safety of the officers or others, the decision of the person in that situation - not the person sitting on his computer reading articles about what happened - should prevail. Yes, there should be a review. Yes, there should be some bar that a cop has to meet before using deadly force. But absent something practically egregious, you don't second guess that decision because no one can replicate that moment. None of this "but maybe there was time to try X and Y, and why didn't they at least try this or that."

 

You know what, I look at the cop's situation in terms of his having a job to do. I also work for a living and am under contant scrutiny and get yelled at or fired if I do a poor job. I think this cop did a very poor job. I may be wrong. That's how I feel. My bottom line is he is in a dangerous line of work and he didn't need to shoot to kill a 12 year old. It's a more serious line of work than mine, but in judging him before seeing the tape, I think he gets a big, fat FAIL for what happened. At this point in time I think he should definitely find a new line of work. Again, if this proves false when the tape comes out, my bad.

I'm going by what I've read which is a dangerous thing to do in the day and age of social media.

[witesoxfan]

You know what, I disagree. s***, I never even heard of an orange cap. You still don't need to die over something like this. How bout a cop in this case do a better job of solving this situation? It's possible you know.

 

It's a terrible thing that happened, but there were measures that could have been taken to ensure that it didn't happen. And, had it been a real gun and he was shooting at others, then what happens?

[southsider2k5]

A picture of the toy gun is at the link

 

http://wgntv.com/2014/11/24/cleveland-poli...a-real-firearm/

[StrangeSox]

I don't know why they make airsoft guns that are essentially indistinguishable from the real thing if you remove the orange tip.

[NorthSideSox72]

A picture of the toy gun is at the link

 

http://wgntv.com/2014/11/24/cleveland-poli...a-real-firearm/

Looks real enough that I would have to assume it was real.

 

[witesoxfan]

 

So, without knowing, real or fake?

[Rowand44]

Looks real enough that I would have to assume it was real.

Absolutely.

[NorthSideSox72]

 

So, without knowing, real or fake?

More importantly. From a distance and moving around, how would you know it was fake? I can't see how anyone could come to that conclusion with any assuredness. You therefore have to use felony stop procedures and assume it is real, until proven otherwise.

 

[StrangeSox]

that looks remarkably like the toy gun I took the orange tip off of when I was little.

[southsider2k5]

Looks real enough that I would have to assume it was real.

 

I have zero police experience to know if there is a way to see the difference that I don't know about, but I wouldn't have a damned clue.

[NorthSideSox72]

that looks remarkably like the toy gun I took the orange tip off of when I was little.

Which is frightening. I used to have cap guns as a kid, but they looked nothing like a real gun. Well not nothing like, but certainly not anything as close as the one in the picture.

 

Actually I remember as a kid, I sawed off the plastic barrell of a cap gun, exposing the short metal chamber inside. If you put a jumping jack or bottle rocket into the barrell, which was a loose fit, and fire the cap gun, it would ignite the firework. Instant rocket launcher!

 

I'm kind of surprised I still have all my fingers. Also happy I never tried to make them look like a real gun.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

I have zero police experience to know if there is a way to see the difference that I don't know about, but I wouldn't have a damned clue.

There is no magic "police vision". You see that gun, in someone's hand or waist or whatever, and it looks real enough. Cops are robots with x-ray vision.

 

[StrangeSox]

Which is frightening. I used to have cap guns as a kid, but they looked nothing like a real gun. Well not nothing like, but certainly not anything as close as the one in the picture.

 

Actually I remember as a kid, I sawed off the plastic barrell of a cap gun, exposing the short metal chamber inside. If you put a jumping jack or bottle rocket into the barrell, which was a loose fit, and fire the cap gun, it would ignite the firework. Instant rocket launcher!

 

I'm kind of surprised I still have all my fingers. Also happy I never tried to make them look like a real gun.

Here's an Airsoft AR-15 right below a real AR-15. Paint that orange tip black and it's indistinguishable.

 

[BigHurt3515]

Why does a 12 year old have an air soft gun in a park in the first place?? Some parents suck

[NorthSideSox72]

Here's an Airsoft AR-15 right below a real AR-15. Paint that orange tip black and it's indistinguishable.

 

Again, that is frightening. Ideally no child should have such a thing. And if they do, they need to be taught to basically handle it as if it was real, when around other people in any scenario.

 

[southsider2k5]

There is no magic "police vision". You see that gun, in someone's hand or waist or whatever, and it looks real enough. Cops are robots with x-ray vision.

 

I mean more like reading a pitchers pick off move... where you focus in on something that tips it off. Again, I don't know if that even exists.

[NorthSideSox72]

I mean more like reading a pitchers pick off move... where you focus in on something that tips it off. Again, I don't know if that even exists.

To do that reliably, you'd have to have a mental catalog of every real gun currently in circulation, and it's profile from every possible angle. That's just not practically possible.

 

[StrangeSox]

well that's what the orange tip is supposed to be for

[GoSox05]

I think with a little kid, I would be more willing to take a risk that maybe the gun is fake or if it is real the kid doesn't even know what he's doing with it. I think I would rather take the risk of getting shot at than to shoot a little kid. I could never live with that.

[StrangeSox]

Based on the two stories I've read so far, what I imagine happened is that the kid got spooked by these police with guns pointed at him and wanted to show them that it was just a toy. As soon as he went to grab it out of his waistband, they shot him.

[NorthSideSox72]

Based on the two stories I've read so far, what I imagine happened is that the kid got spooked by these police with guns pointed at him and wanted to show them that it was just a toy. As soon as he went to grab it out of his waistband, they shot him.

Probably. Just a terribly sad end one way or another.

 

Also BTW, not sure how big this kid was, but he may not have looked like a "little kid" at all. I don't know one way or another. But we're not talking about a 6 year old here.

 

[greg775]

I think with a little kid, I would be more willing to take a risk that maybe the gun is fake or if it is real the kid doesn't even know what he's doing with it. I think I would rather take the risk of getting shot at than to shoot a little kid. I could never live with that.

 

Amen. But that would take high quality, top notch police work. Some people are giving the cop such a free pass. If the guy does an exemplary job, no 12 year old dies.

[MexSoxFan#1]

When I first heard of this story and before the identity of the victim was released, I told friends and co-workers that I would be shocked if the victim wasn't black and the cop wasn't white...

 

Yeah, I went there.

Edited November 25, 2014 by MexSoxFan#1