TRACK the Manuel stupidity

[JUGGERNAUT]

09/02/03 v BOS : systemic

Lee AB w RON 2,3 & 1 out. Lee hits into a DP.

Why Manuel is partly to blame:

The SOX are a team packed with HR hitters. HR hitters are typically FB hitters.

They excel at hitting FB's. As such, the SOX as a team should practice routinely

hitting FB's with a man on 3rd & less than 2 outs. It's not hard to do.

You need the batter, a pitcher, a catcher & 3 OFs.

This practices 2 VERY IMPORTANT areas of the game:

1) hitting the SAC FLY

2) preventing the SAC FLY

 

Both of which the SOX have proven to be dismal this year in execution.

You fault the manager when the talent level exists to excel in these areas.

 

09/03/03 v BOS: game day

RON 1, 1 out. 4-4 tie.

Why replace Thomas? You are facing the toughest hitting team in the AL.

They have out-homered you in the series.

Intelligence would tell you keep your best hitter in the game.

Is Rowand fast enough to beat out a DP? No.

The difference betw Rowand & Thomas is that Rowand has a quicker first step.

If you were to race them both non-stop from 1B, Thomas would probably be a very close 2nd.

 

This had reprecussions because now Harris was the only sub avail for CF.

That came back to bite them in the 10th.

 

Maggs hits a SHORT double, but KIM sends Rowand.

RISKING THE 2ND OUT going to HOME in a tie BALL GAME is a F'G CARDINAL SIN!

Every F'g person who has ever played the game knows this!

You can easily tell by the hit that it was at best a SHORT DOUBLE.

You risk the out when it is a LONG DOUBLE.

 

 

Anybody want to bet how many games Manuel will effect the rest of the way?

[Dick Allen]

09/02/03 v BOS :  systemic

Lee AB w RON 2,3 & 1 out.  Lee hits into a DP.

Why Manuel is partly to blame:

The SOX are a team packed with HR hitters. HR hitters are typically FB hitters.

They excel at hitting FB's.  As such, the SOX as a team should practice routinely

hitting FB's with a man on 3rd & less than 2 outs.  It's not hard to do.

You need the batter, a pitcher, a catcher & 3 OFs.

This practices 2 VERY IMPORTANT areas of the game:

1) hitting the SAC FLY

2) preventing the SAC FLY

 

Both of which the SOX have proven to be dismal this year in execution.

You fault the manager when the talent level exists to excel in these areas.

 

09/03/03 v BOS: game day

RON 1, 1 out.  4-4 tie.

Why replace Thomas?  You are facing the toughest hitting team in the AL.

They have out-homered you in the series.

Intelligence would tell you keep your best hitter in the game.

Is Rowand fast enough to beat out a DP? No.

The difference betw Rowand & Thomas is that Rowand has a quicker first step.

If you were to race them both non-stop from 1B, Thomas would probably be a very close 2nd.

 

This had reprecussions because now Harris was the only sub avail for CF.

That came back to bite them in the 10th.

 

Maggs hits a SHORT double, but KIM sends Rowand.

RISKING THE 2ND OUT going to HOME in a tie BALL GAME is a F'G CARDINAL SIN!

Every F'g person who has ever played the game knows this!

You can easily tell by the hit that it was at best a SHORT DOUBLE.

You risk the out when it is a LONG DOUBLE. 

 

 

Anybody want to bet how many games Manuel will effect the rest of the way?

 

Rowand still could have played CF. Harris' spot would have been filled by the pitcher. There were plenty of replacements left to hit for the pitcher for 5 or 6 more innings. The game probably wouldn't last that long. Having Harris and his .185 average bat was inexcusable. JM needs to go.

[IlliniBob72]

Can you say with certainty that they don't practice hitting fly balls? And the Sox top GIDP guys are home run hitters, PK, Mags, CLee.

 

And how do you blame Manuel for Kimm sending Rowand, though I and others feel it was a good call?

[IlliniBob72]

Also, please don't confuse me for a Manuel supporter. I've had complaints about him for years, especially for his penchant for emptying the bench for last games of series. I just feel that players deserve more blame when things go south. Like stranding so many runners last night.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Can you say with certainty that they don't practice hitting fly balls? And the Sox top GIDP guys are home run hitters, PK, Mags, CLee.

 

And how do you blame Manuel for Kimm sending Rowand, though I and others feel it was a good call?

I've explained above why it was a very BAD call to wave Rowand home.

 

You can't manage a MLB game like you are playing nintendo & following a cheat sheet.

You have to be aware of the strength's & weaknesses of the team you are playing as well as your own.

 

As for my knowing whether they practice, there is an old saying :

Practice makes perfect or at least better

 

The evidence is on the field after some 300+ games of Manuel's tenure.

This team is consistently HORRIBLE year after year in acheiving SAC FLY's & preventing them.

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

Letting Ortiz face Sullivan with 3 lefties in the pen, and then letting him face Gordon with 2 lefties in the pen, were flat out blunders that cost the ball game.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Letting Ortiz face Sullivan with 3 lefties in the pen, and then letting him face Gordon with 2 lefties in the pen, were flat out blunders that cost the ball game.

Manuel supporters might not understand that, so:

BOS David Ortiz : (226A, 734 OPS) vs LH, (307A, 1022 OPS) vs RH

 

Do I hear the words NO-BRAINER echo'g through the empty chambers of those who support the mental midget known as Jerry Manuel?

 

Or let me put it this way. How many times was Thomas intentionally walked in this series? Good managers know the numbers.

<- trying to knock sense into you know who

[elrockinMT]

Letting Ortiz face Sullivan with 3 lefties in the pen, and then letting him face Gordon with 2 lefties in the pen, were flat out blunders that cost the ball game.

Manuel is hard to figure when it comes to making play and personnel decisions. He throws the book out and plays hunches and it seems it backfires on him from time to time. I think last night was one of those times. Marte should have faced Ortiz, or bring in Wunsch who is our left handed releif specialist RIGHT?! But, then again Flash is the man out of the pen. He has saved us more than once. It isn't easy being the manager especially when it's Jerry Manuel. The offense is as much to blame as Jerry's decisions though. A hit in one crucial spot would have won it in 9.

[southsider2k5]

Can you say with certainty that they don't practice hitting fly balls? And the Sox top GIDP guys are home run hitters, PK, Mags, CLee.

 

And how do you blame Manuel for Kimm sending Rowand, though I and others feel it was a good call?

The hitters wouldn't be the problem, who would you have had pitch. All that was left was Schow, Koch, Wunsch, and Adkins. Remember Wright is going to pitch this weekend against the Tribe

[Chisoxfn]

I still want to know why the hell Harris was hitting with Crede on 3rd and 2 outs. Why the hell not use Rios, who is much more experienced and a better hitter.

[JUGGERNAUT]

The bigger the series, the dumber Manuel gets.

 

As you know we had a wealth of off days this past week to where Manuel had opportunity of using Wright to re-align his rotation vs the Twinks. So how did the matchups go?

 

gm 1: SOX #1 vs MIN #3 : Sox win - A waste of Colon

gm 2: SOX #2 vs MIN #4 : Sox win - A waste of Buerhle, but JM's braindead use of the BP required the cushion

gm 3: SOX #4 vs MIN #1 : Min win - The 1-2 punch of Santana-Hawkins says it all

gm 4: SOX #3 vs MIN #2 : Min win

 

Some of you will argue that E-LO is not the SOX #3, but it's not records. It's about how well you were expected to pitch before the season started & how well you are pitching now. The same applies to MIN. Santana is pitching like an ACE & most people around MLB felt that was his potential.

 

It all goes back to the NYY series:

08/27: BC vs NYY

08/28: MB vs NYY

08/29: JG vs Det

08/30: DW vs Det

08/31: EL vs Det

09/02: MB vs BOS

09/03: JG vs BOS

09/05: BC vs Cle

09/06: MB vs Cle

09/07: DW vs Cle

09/08: EL vs Lohse

09/09: JG vs ????

09/10: BC vs Santana

09/11: MB vs Radke

 

That's how you manage a rotation.

 

Now what's the earliest you could see this coming?

Santana : 08/24, w off day next start 08/30, w off days 09/05

Radke : 08/26, next start 08/31, w off days 09/06

 

The rest is pretty straight forward.

 

So yeah I blame Manuel for being brainless in NYY & not seeing the forest betw the trees.

[JUGGERNAUT]

What's left in the tank?

 

CLE vs MIN:

Rogers

Lohse

Pulido

Santana

 

BOS vs SOX:

Wright

Colon

Buerhle

 

MIN vs SOX:

Radke vs E-LO

Rogers vs JG

Lohse vs Colon

 

A sweep is not impossible since there is no Santana.

 

SOX vs KC:

Buerhle

E-LO (3 days rest)

JG (3 days rest)

 

SOX vs NYY:

Wright

Colon

Buerhle

 

KC vs SOX:

E-LO

JG

Wright/Colon (3 days)

Colon/Buerhle (3 days)

 

NO DAYS OFF from MIN to KC. There is no other option.

 

Monday off.

 

OAK vs SOX:

E-LO

JG

MB/BC

BC/MB

E-LO

[JUGGERNAUT]

What's left in the tank?

 

CLE vs MIN:

Rogers

Lohse

Pulido

Santana

 

BOS vs SOX:

Wright

Colon

Buerhle

 

MIN vs SOX:

Radke vs E-LO

Rogers vs JG

Lohse vs Colon

 

A sweep is not impossible since there is no Santana.

 

SOX vs KC:

Buerhle

E-LO (3 days rest)

JG  (3 days rest)

 

SOX vs NYY:

Wright

Colon

Buerhle

 

KC vs SOX:

E-LO

JG

Wright/Colon (3 days)

Colon/Buerhle (3 days)

 

NO DAYS OFF from MIN to KC.  There is no other option.

 

Monday off.

 

OAK vs SOX:

E-LO

JG

MB/BC

BC/MB

E-LO

MGR. JERRY MANUEL !!!!!!!

JUST DO IT EXACTLY LIKE I'VE SPEC'D IT OUT HERE.

 

AND NO F'G TRYOUTS in THE BULLPEN!

[winninguglyin83]

I like your plan and your attention to detial.

 

One minor point: I believe the Twins are leading toward starting Eric Milton Sunday in Cleveland. He's pitched in Double-A and rejoined the team in Chicago this week.

 

I assume that means they will use either Pulido or Reed on Monday.

 

That way Gardenhire can go for the KO in the Twinkiedome with Santana and Radke.

 

Just a hunch, but I expect that to happen.

 

JM ain't managing the Twinkies.

 

And one final point: If the division is lost, the Number One thing to point back at will ALWAYS be the Eight losses to the Tigers.

 

No matter how you explain it, it's just not something a good team allows to happen.

[Soxfest]

JM blows Sox have always won in spite of him, If they do not win division JM can pack his worthless ass.

[IlliniBob72]

The bigger the series, the dumber Manuel gets.

 

As you know we had a wealth of off days this past week to where Manuel had opportunity of using Wright to re-align his rotation vs the Twinks.  So how did the matchups go?

 

gm 1: SOX #1 vs MIN #3 : Sox win - A waste of Colon

gm 2: SOX #2 vs MIN #4 : Sox win - A waste of Buerhle, but JM's braindead use of the BP required the cushion

gm 3: SOX #4 vs MIN #1 : Min win - The 1-2 punch of Santana-Hawkins says it all

gm 4: SOX #3 vs MIN #2 : Min win

 

Some of you will argue that E-LO is not the SOX #3, but it's not records.  It's about how well you were expected to pitch before the season started & how well you are pitching now. The same applies to MIN.  Santana is pitching like an ACE & most people around MLB felt that was his potential.

 

It all goes back to the NYY series:

08/27: BC vs NYY

08/28: MB vs NYY

08/29: JG vs Det

08/30: DW vs Det

08/31: EL vs Det

09/02: MB vs BOS

09/03: JG vs BOS

09/05: BC vs Cle

09/06: MB vs  Cle

09/07: DW vs Cle

09/08: EL vs Lohse

09/09: JG vs ????

09/10: BC vs Santana

09/11: MB vs Radke

 

That's how you manage a rotation. 

 

Now what's the earliest you could see this coming?

Santana : 08/24, w off day next start 08/30, w off days 09/05

Radke : 08/26, next start 08/31, w off days 09/06

 

The rest is pretty straight forward.

 

So yeah I blame Manuel for being brainless in NYY & not seeing the forest betw the trees.

You wouldn't pitch Colon for 8 days??? And how is JM supposed to know who Gardenhire is going to pitch in which game of the series? Surely if JM has so much luxury in tinkering with his rotation, Gardenhire does also. It really doesn't matter anyway. Since the Sox scored 3 runs in the last two games combined, whether they had Colon and Buerhle pitching or Cy Young and Koufax, they probably would have lost anyways. The top 4 guys pitched in the series, you can't ask for much more than that.

[CubKilla]

I laughed late in the game when JM pitch-hit first-Major-League-at-bat Aaron Miles when the bench had pining riding notables such as PK, Aaron Rowand, Willie Harris, and Tony Graffenino. And those are just the guys that JM passed up off the top of my head. Then he puts Burke in for Olivo instead of Alomar. Then he starts Daubach in place of PK.

 

The White Sox Organization cannot fire this jamoke fast enough.

[Bmr31]

I laughed late in the game when JM pitch-hit first-Major-League-at-bat Aaron Miles when the bench had pining riding notables such as PK, Aaron Rowand, Willie Harris, and Tony Graffenino. And those are just the guys that JM passed up off the top of my head. Then he puts Burke in for Olivo instead of Alomar. Then he starts Daubach in place of PK.

 

The White Sox Organization cannot fire this jamoke fast enough.

If he HAD to play Daubach, someone please explain to me why he couldnt wait until this weekend, and play him against his former team.

[CubKilla]

I laughed late in the game when JM pitch-hit first-Major-League-at-bat Aaron Miles when the bench had pining riding notables such as PK, Aaron Rowand, Willie Harris, and Tony Graffenino. And those are just the guys that JM passed up off the top of my head. Then he puts Burke in for Olivo instead of Alomar. Then he starts Daubach in place of PK.

 

The White Sox Organization cannot fire this jamoke fast enough.

If he HAD to play Daubach, someone please explain to me why he couldnt wait until this weekend, and play him against his former team.

EXACTLY!

[YASNY]

I laughed late in the game when JM pitch-hit first-Major-League-at-bat Aaron Miles when the bench had pining riding notables such as PK, Aaron Rowand, Willie Harris, and Tony Graffenino. And those are just the guys that JM passed up off the top of my head. Then he puts Burke in for Olivo instead of Alomar. Then he starts Daubach in place of PK.

 

The White Sox Organization cannot fire this jamoke fast enough.

If he HAD to play Daubach, someone please explain to me why he couldnt wait until this weekend, and play him against his former team.

Because he was 10 for 26 lifetime against Radke... with 3 dingers, iirc.

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

How about some more game strategy? We're losing 4-1 in the biggest game of the year, and Loiza's 96th pitch produced the Twins final run, against a lefty I'm pretty sure, and THERE'S ONLY BEVINGTON'S INVISIBLE RELIEVER UP IN THE BULLPEN.

 

Our next manager needs to know how to manage pitching. And I totally agree with the posts about the pitching rotation. JM needs a clue, and he'll never find it.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Where do I begin with the last BOSOX game.

 

Blunder 1

1st off DW. Should he have started?

Dare I say we have to go back to the NYY series. Again.

Colon's pc over last 4 starts: 108,123,117,117.

The 123 in NY is a sin because it was a 7-2 gm after the 4th.

 

The general consensus is limit your starters to 300 pc/15 days.

This is predicated an an avg of 100 warmup throws per gm.

So in a sense a 300 pc is actually 600 throws.

If Manuel takes Colon out after 5 ip, he saves another 40 throws.

Now Colon's 15 day avg becomes < 110 pc.

If you went into Friday's game setting a fixed limit of 90 pc,

again you're keeping his 15 day avg < 110 pc.

 

How does Colon fair vs the BOSOX?

.218A, .274OBP, .372SLG - I'd say pretty darn good.

 

How does DW fair vs the BOSOX?

.200A, .351OBP, .450SLG - Not the right man for the job.

 

Hawk & DJ were all over Manuel in this decision & this game.

 

Blunder 2

No one warming up after DW walks 2 in the 1st.

If you look over DW's career he is either on in the K zone or he's off.

There's no in between. Clearly he was off & everyone but JM knew it.

You get somebody warming up after the 1st & you bring him if DW walks another.

You might allow him 2 walks in a row in the 2nd, but that's it.

 

Look at the game logs. Take him out with 2 men on, & chances are Schow limits the damage to 2 runs.

 

Schow pitched a scoreless 3rd & the SOX add 2 dingers.

Score after 4, 3-2 SOX.

 

Again Hawk & DJ were brutal on JM. DW was falling behind every hitter in the 1st 5 he faced.

 

Blunder 3

Schow taken out after 51 pc. Reasonable.

Nomar .523 OPS vs Koch. Reasonable.

Ramirez .724 OPS vs Koch. Reasonable.

Ortiz .400 OPS vs Koch. Reasonable.

Millar ??? vs Koch. Get someone up.

Mueller 1167 OPS vs Koch. Get him the F out.

 

This is a F'g play off game! No F'g confidence builders or tryouts any more.

He did his F'g job & recorded 3 outs. It's not time to test him vs someone who owns his arse. He might have only walked Mueller but he never should have faced him!

 

Bill Mueller .611 OPS vs Sullivan. BINGO!

Varitek >>> vs Sully.

Kapler 000 OPS vs Sully.

 

Use the F'g scouting reports Manuel (you F'g dip s***!)!

 

If I'm managing the team, the score is still 3-2 SOX after 5.

 

I probably let Sully face Damon in the 6th.

It's a risk but the fact most of the BOSOX haven't seen him is reason to take the risk.

 

I'm even willing to say the decision costs me, and it's 3-3 when Wunsch comes on.

 

We go to the 7th.

 

The SOX add another run so 4-3 SOX.

 

SOX win 4-3!

[LeroySettle]

Has anyone mentioned the recent minnesota series. JM apparently thought we had won the series after the 2nd game because:

 

In game 3- Tony G is starting over Alomar

 

In game 4- Daubach is starting over PK

 

I'm sorry these are must win games, you play your best team. I'm not saying Tony G is bad or that Daubach doesn't hit well verse Radke, but in must win games you play your best players...peroid. I've never seen any manager in any sport sit their best players in must win games. Did the Bulls ever not start MJ in a must win game, has Greenbay ever told Farve "take a rest in week 3, if we are up in the 4th qtr we'll get you some snaps, did Bonds sit out any games in last years WS? Of course not.

 

JM also has this mentality that some games don't count as much as others. This maybe true if you have a 10-15 game lead and its just about wrapped up, but this year EVERY GAME counted. Its just like the votes for the presidential election in Floriday- they all count!!

 

I'm starting to have my doubts about our chances for the playoffs, especially with the upcoming schedule. This team wins despite JM, not because or for him. JM has made some very bad decisions over the last few years (...remember in 2001 when he insisted sitting Valentine in favor of no bat Clayton, had 50 year old harold Baines in the lineup, and stuck with that no hitting center fielder- I can't even remember his name- and we got off to a horrible start). Its time for KW to make a move.

[CubKilla]

I was reading somewhere that JM voiced a desire to start Daubach again in this BoSox series. The White Sox need to ship this tinkering jagoff with no clue on how to manage a BP out on a rail.

[aboz56]

I was reading somewhere that JM voiced a desire to start Daubach again in this BoSox series. The White Sox need to ship this tinkering jagoff with no clue on how to manage a BP out on a rail.

It better not be tonight, because the game tonight is not the time to screw around.