Y2Jimmy0 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Jonah Keri's Trade Value Column is out on grantland.com. It's a really great piece. Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, and Jose Abreu are all very good for the record, haha. http://grantland.com/features/2014-mlb-tra...ankings-part-1/ http://grantland.com/features/2014-mlb-tra...ankings-part-2/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 and hoping Rondon will be on next years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:31 AM) and hoping Rondon will be on next years! Rodon. But yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:33 AM) Rodon. But yes. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Quintana being nothing more than an honorable mention is puzzling to me, and a big miss on Keri's part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:39 AM) Quintana being nothing more than an honorable mention is puzzling to me, and a big miss on Keri's part. A guy who put up 5+ fWAR on a cheap contract under team control for a while. He's also left-handed. It's not easy to get into the top 50, but it seems like Quintana is the perfect combo of talent, team control, and below-market value contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 Take it up with Jonah Keri on twitter. He answered some of my questions yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:44 AM) A guy who put up 5+ fWAR on a cheap contract under team control for a while. He's also left-handed. It's not easy to get into the top 50, but it seems like Quintana is the perfect combo of talent, team control, and below-market value contract. Yep. The Jays would trade Encarnacion (49) for him? The Phillies wouldn't give up Hamels (39)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:57 AM) Yep. The Jays would trade Encarnacion (49) for him? The Phillies wouldn't give up Hamels (39)? Not sure how Hamels and his huge contract made it at 39. Especially when you consider Quintana was better last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 11:39 AM) Quintana being nothing more than an honorable mention is puzzling to me, and a big miss on Keri's part. Same. Cameron nailed Quintana, i thought, on his. But there's just no way I can fathom Cole Hamels being more valuable than Quintana in a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:00 PM) Not sure how Hamels and his huge contract made it at 39. Especially when you consider Quintana was better last year. Is Hamels' contract really huge in relative terms? 4 years 90 million is going to look dirt cheap to trade for after what Lester and Scherzer get as free agents. Hamels is a top 10 pitcher in baseball....Q is very good, but he's not on Hamels' level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 05:52 PM) .Q is very good, but he's not on Hamels' level I think a lot of people would disagree with you on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 FWIW most projection systems have Jose pegged for a sharp regression next year. Probably factored into Keri's thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 05:52 PM) Is Hamels' contract really huge in relative terms? 4 years 90 million is going to look dirt cheap to trade for after what Lester and Scherzer get as free agents. Hamels is a top 10 pitcher in baseball....Q is very good, but he's not on Hamels' level Comparatively speaking, yes, Hamels' contract is a huge negative when compared in context with Jose Quintana, and then figure that Jose Quintana was an absolutely phenomenal pitcher and he continues to improve enternig his age 26 season while Cole Hamels will likely only go down from year entering his age 31 season, and it's clear to anyone that Jose Quintana is a far more valuable pitcher and likely a much safer bet moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 QUOTE (daggins @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 06:00 PM) FWIW most projection systems have Jose pegged for a sharp regression next year. Probably factored into Keri's thinking. I'm intrigued as to why this is? Has this been the case for the last few years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Lack of track record, "underrated status" play into it. Mostly I would guess its his very low HR/FB rate. Even if he regresses he is still a 3 WAR pitcher on a dirt cheap contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 07:00 PM) Comparatively speaking, yes, Hamels' contract is a huge negative when compared in context with Jose Quintana, and then figure that Jose Quintana was an absolutely phenomenal pitcher and he continues to improve enternig his age 26 season while Cole Hamels will likely only go down from year entering his age 31 season, and it's clear to anyone that Jose Quintana is a far more valuable pitcher and likely a much safer bet moving forward. Here's a beauty of a stat. In his career, Cole Hamels has never put up a single season that produced as much fWAR as Quintana did last year. Quintana put up 5.3 fWAR, Cole Hamels's best season is 4.6 fWAR. At age 25, Jose Quintana outpitched any season in Cole Hamels's career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 06:52 PM) Is Hamels' contract really huge in relative terms? 4 years 90 million is going to look dirt cheap to trade for after what Lester and Scherzer get as free agents. Hamels is a top 10 pitcher in baseball....Q is very good, but he's not on Hamels' level What? How do you figure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 07:08 PM) Here's a beauty of a stat. In his career, Cole Hamels has never put up a single season that produced as much fWAR as Quintana did last year. Quintana put up 5.3 fWAR, Cole Hamels's best season is 4.6 fWAR. At age 25, Jose Quintana outpitched any season in Cole Hamels's career. People like you are why I hate that sabermetrics have become so household. You just regurgitate some number you vaguely understand and it's concrete fact in your mind. Please explain to me, in your own words, how Q was better than Hamels last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 SIGH. There are about 50 reasons Quintana is overlooked. And probably 90% of baseball fans would think your favorite team trading top prospects for Cole Hamels (despite his age and contract) is a better bet than trading those same prospects for Quintana. You can practically guarantee that there would be a significantly blip on the season ticket radar for any team adding Hamels. (Of course, this is not a smart way to run a franchise, looking at short-term PR gains versus longer term, repeatable success). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 08:23 PM) People like you are why I hate that sabermetrics have become so household. You just regurgitate some number you vaguely understand and it's concrete fact in your mind. Please explain to me, in your own words, how Q was better than Hamels last year. I think they are pretty comparable pitchers. Q strikes out a few less but also walks a few less per 9. Both pitched about 200 innings on bad teams. Similar ground balls rates, Q gave up a few less dingers. They are very comparable stat-wise, but Q is younger and much cheaper, which makes him more valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 07:23 PM) People like you are why I hate that sabermetrics have become so household. You just regurgitate some number you vaguely understand and it's concrete fact in your mind. Please explain to me, in your own words, how Q was better than Hamels last year. Please explain to me why Hamels is so much better than Q and you can't use stats cause those aren't your own words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon_44 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 5, 2014 -> 02:06 AM) Please explain to me why Hamels is so much better than Q and you can't use stats cause those aren't your own words. Put them both on the open market and Hamel's is going to get the better contract and be more in demand. Part of Q's value is tied to his team friendly contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Dec 5, 2014 -> 12:52 PM) Put them both on the open market and Hamel's is going to get the better contract and be more in demand. Part of Q's value is tied to his team friendly contract. you said his value, i disagree. it is his appeal that contract is a great contract for the team. the main problem is he is underrated. a person will not think that much of him until they see the stats for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 07:23 PM) People like you are why I hate that sabermetrics have become so household. You just regurgitate some number you vaguely understand and it's concrete fact in your mind. Please explain to me, in your own words, how Q was better than Hamels last year. Just because you don't understand a stat doesn't make it wrong or the people citing it wrong. Quintana and Hamels put up very similar FIP and xFIP numbers. The part that you are completely ignoring is that one pitches in the NL and one pitches in the AL (both pitch in hitter's parks so park factor is pretty much negated). Edited December 5, 2014 by lasttriptotulsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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