Sale switching Sox?

[southsider2k5]

Given Dombroski's track-record and history of finding ace starting rotations (and building around an ace or two) as well as his aggressiveness when it comes to trade (and use his prospects), I would be stunned if he hasn't asked the Sox about Sale. Absolutely stunned. I also think Sale is probably the best chip to move, but obviously a lot of risk with moving him. You need to get a huge haul and you need to be extremely confident in your scouting. I'm to the point now that I used to be totally focused on pitching, that I'm totally switched and we need to find talented, toolsy, multi-faceted position players who can contribute on a daily basis.

 

While Sale is amazing and awesome (as is Q), the premium right now is on positional talent. Pitching is just so freaking good that the old addage of you can never have too much good pitching is less true because their is just so much damn good pitching.

 

With where Sale is at in his contract, I honestly don't think the Sox could be realistically offered enough to trade Chris. Factor in the PR disaster that would result from it, and it becomes even more unlikely.

 

Maybe in a couple of years if the rebuild still hasn't gone anywhere you think about it, but pretty much the price would start with a current or soon to be star offensive player, and go from there. No package of prospects would be enough.

[Chisoxfn]

With where Sale is at in his contract, I honestly don't think the Sox could be realistically offered enough to trade Chris. Factor in the PR disaster that would result from it, and it becomes even more unlikely.

 

Maybe in a couple of years if the rebuild still hasn't gone anywhere you think about it, but pretty much the price would start with a current or soon to be star offensive player, and go from there. No package of prospects would be enough.

I honestly think their recent performance is already a PR disaster so what real downside do they have. Ratings are bad, attendance is lousy, the team has struggled. Are you really going to disenfranchise that many more people? All we really want is wins and if you think it is the right move, then you need to make it. If a team is going to go crazy for Sale than you should probably bite the bullet vs. wait another year (if we really don't think we can contend this year).

 

If the Sox take a, lets give this one more shot thing (given last years roster) and then if it doesn't work, we'll move some young pitching / others and retool, well then that just doesn't make sense to me. You have no idea if your assets get hurt, etc. So if they think they'll move Sale in a number of scenarios (depending on how the club performs this year), then I think you move him now (or at least listen to offers).

 

Bottom line is we need to find a lot of quality position players and figure out a way to become a good defensive team. In this era of baseball, you either find a way to have an unusually potent offense (and live with mediocre pitching) or you have awesome pitching and strong defense. Right now the Sox have a crappy offense, a crappy defense, and above average pitching...that just doesn't fly. And they don't have a ton of young position talent to upgrade the area, so they are going to have to look outside of the org to find the talent.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 and I probably am making things sound worse then they are (as I still think with the right moves, we can contend pretty quickly), but I think it will be a challenge to get their without moving existing major league young talent and leveraging our young proven pitching to get position talent while relying / hoping our track record of developing young pitching can continue to be true (and thus we get to the spot where we have the defense, hitting, and pitching to become an elite team). Right now we are just such a flawed / patch work team. It was as if strategically we had no idea where we were going to go last off-season and instead of being strategic in where we headed, we kind of pieced it together and knew the collective parts didn't mesh but hoped the overall results would somehow overcome it. It also reaked a bit of building a team without appreciating / considering the current roster construction in baseball and the deflated offensive era and the overall importance of a run.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

It's been mentioned in several articles that Dombrowski has checked with the A's about Sonny Gray and the White Sox about Sale.

 

It came from Gammons and besides Gray and Sale it also included Carlos Carrasco of the Indians that Dombrowski has checked into the availability.

[southsider2k5]

I honestly think their recent performance is already a PR disaster so what real downside do they have. Ratings are bad, attendance is lousy, the team has struggled. Are you really going to disenfranchise that many more people? All we really want is wins and if you think it is the right move, then you need to make it. If a team is going to go crazy for Sale than you should probably bite the bullet vs. wait another year (if we really don't think we can contend this year).

 

If the Sox take a, lets give this one more shot thing (given last years roster) and then if it doesn't work, we'll move some young pitching / others and retool, well then that just doesn't make sense to me. You have no idea if your assets get hurt, etc. So if they think they'll move Sale in a number of scenarios (depending on how the club performs this year), then I think you move him now (or at least listen to offers).

 

Bottom line is we need to find a lot of quality position players and figure out a way to become a good defensive team. In this era of baseball, you either find a way to have an unusually potent offense (and live with mediocre pitching) or you have awesome pitching and strong defense. Right now the Sox have a crappy offense, a crappy defense, and above average pitching...that just doesn't fly. And they don't have a ton of young position talent to upgrade the area, so they are going to have to look outside of the org to find the talent.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 and I probably am making things sound worse then they are (as I still think with the right moves, we can contend pretty quickly), but I think it will be a challenge to get their without moving existing major league young talent and leveraging our young proven pitching to get position talent while relying / hoping our track record of developing young pitching can continue to be true (and thus we get to the spot where we have the defense, hitting, and pitching to become an elite team). Right now we are just such a flawed / patch work team. It was as if strategically we had no idea where we were going to go last off-season and instead of being strategic in where we headed, we kind of pieced it together and knew the collective parts didn't mesh but hoped the overall results would somehow overcome it. It also reaked a bit of building a team without appreciating / considering the current roster construction in baseball and the deflated offensive era and the overall importance of a run.

 

There are plenty of people still going to games, even at this reduced rate. Another "White Flag" trade would put the franchise in a state where they might as well start looking for a new home. This is a middle market revenue team, keep in mind.

[Chisoxfn]

There are plenty of people still going to games, even at this reduced rate. Another "White Flag" trade would put the franchise in a state where they might as well start looking for a new home. This is a middle market revenue team, keep in mind.

Following the white flag trade, we eventually went on one of the franchises best runs, so that might not be a bad thing. The fan base came back and was at its peak following the world series that was one again, following the trade. I'm not saying the trade directly impacted the world series, but the 2000 era White Sox were molded from that trade (along with draft picks, etc) and then a contingent of that base evolved into the 2005 champ.

 

Additionally, this is trading your best player for prospects. Yes, it is a sign of a change in strategy, but unlike the white flag trade, we are not a few games out of the playoffs or favorites for anything right now. We are a combined 59 games under .500 over the past 3 seasons. Also, from an attendance perspective, while the white flag trade (along with other things) led to a 400K decline in attendance from the 97 season into 98 and 99, the Sox followed that up with the best attendance run in modern franchise history (with exception with the early new comiskey years where they, like any other team, benefited from the newness of the park (and a pretty damn good roster).

[southsider2k5]

Following the white flag trade, we eventually went on one of the franchises best runs, so that might not be a bad thing. The fan base came back and was at its peak following the world series that was one again, following the trade. I'm not saying the trade directly impacted the world series, but the 2000 era White Sox were molded from that trade (along with draft picks, etc) and then a contingent of that base evolved into the 2005 champ.

 

Additionally, this is trading your best player for prospects. Yes, it is a sign of a change in strategy, but unlike the white flag trade, we are not a few games out of the playoffs or favorites for anything right now. We are a combined 59 games under .500 over the past 3 seasons. Also, from an attendance perspective, while the white flag trade (along with other things) led to a 400K decline in attendance from the 97 season into 98 and 99, the Sox followed that up with the best attendance run in modern franchise history (with exception with the early new comiskey years where they, like any other team, benefited from the newness of the park (and a pretty damn good roster).

 

We also had a Hall of Famer in the line up. In this deal, we'd be trading the face of our franchise, and unlike that deal, he is no where near free agency.

[Chisoxfn]

We also had a Hall of Famer in the line up. In this deal, we'd be trading the face of our franchise, and unlike that deal, he is no where near free agency.

I don't think Chris Sale puts fans in the seats. I really don't think a pitcher can help drive your attendance anyway, as they only pitch once every 5 days. I think you are overselling the impacts of moving Chris Sale. I honestly don't think the fan base would be dealt some death blow. Yes, if it was the Big Hurt in his prime, I could see it, he played every day and that allows for a fan to be more connected / emotionally tied to a player.

 

As amazing as Chris Sale is, he still only plays in 20% of the Sox games (and historically even a little less than that due to injuries) so it is hard for that person to be as impactful on a franchise and overall draw. You think about people that are must watch and while their are some pitchers on that list, it is normally position guys.

 

And again, I really don't care...I don't see how it could get that much worse from an attendance ratings perspective. Figure out ways to win and consistently win. Having a great player on a crappy team solves nothing. I want a good team and we should do whatever it takes to be good (and if the front office thinks that means you move someone like Sale, fine, sign me up).

[shipps]

The only thing that effects attendance is winning and losing. If trading Sale means more wins than ultimately it should positively effect attendance. Period.

 

Now for a losing team I suppose it would help in attendance on days Sale pitches but I am not sure there were much more people showing up last year. Actually with some of his best games it was pretty empty unfortunately.

[GGajewski18]

Major blockbuster proposal:

 

SP Chris Sale, CF Adam Eaton, and SS Tim Anderson for SS Xander Bogaerts, CF Mookie Betts, C Blake Swihart, 3B Rafael Devers, and SP Eduardo Rodriguez

 

Who says no?

[Chisoxfn]

Major blockbuster proposal:

 

SP Chris Sale, CF Adam Eaton, and SS Tim Anderson for SS Xander Bogaerts, CF Mookie Betts, C Blake Swihart, 3B Rafael Devers, and SP Eduardo Rodriguez

 

Who says no?

I'd want Moncada as well but that is an intriguing package. Bogaerts and Betts both have nice early MLB track-records Swihart is major league ready and a change of pace as well. Rodriguez is young and fits into a rotation now. I'd do this deal if you pulled out Eaton. Add in Moncada and would do this deal in general. I like the idea of getting a number of guys who fit in as current MLB starters with the only minor league piece being Rafael Devers (who is years away).

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Major blockbuster proposal:

 

SP Chris Sale, CF Adam Eaton, and SS Tim Anderson for SS Xander Bogaerts, CF Mookie Betts, C Blake Swihart, 3B Rafael Devers, and SP Eduardo Rodriguez

 

Who says no?

No thanks. I'd probably do it though if Moncada and Owens were included too.

Edited November 17, 2015 by ChiSoxFanMike

[BlackSox13]

Major blockbuster proposal:

 

SP Chris Sale, CF Adam Eaton, and SS Tim Anderson for SS Xander Bogaerts, CF Mookie Betts, C Blake Swihart, 3B Rafael Devers, and SP Eduardo Rodriguez

 

Who says no?

I would do that deal in a heartbeat which tells me Boston emphatically says no. I have a hard time believing Boston would trade Bogarerts and Betts.

Edited November 18, 2015 by BlackSox13

[GGajewski18]

I'd want Moncada as well but that is an intriguing package. Bogaerts and Betts both have nice early MLB track-records Swihart is major league ready and a change of pace as well. Rodriguez is young and fits into a rotation now. I'd do this deal if you pulled out Eaton. Add in Moncada and would do this deal in general. I like the idea of getting a number of guys who fit in as current MLB starters with the only minor league piece being Rafael Devers (who is years away).

 

CF Betts

SS Bogaerts

1B Abreu

LF Cabrera

C Swihart

RF Garcia

DH LaRoche

3B Olt

2B Sanchez

 

Add a Todd Frazier and maybe another OF and this offense is as good as it comes imo.

 

Quintana

Rodon

Rodriguez

Johnson

Danks

 

Formidable.

[chitownsportsfan]

He pitches once every 5 days how many tickets can he really sell?

[ChiSoxFanMike]

CF Betts

SS Bogaerts

1B Abreu

LF Cabrera

C Swihart

RF Garcia

DH LaRoche

3B Olt

2B Sanchez

 

Add a Todd Frazier and maybe another OF and this offense is as good as it comes imo.

 

Quintana

Rodon

Rodriguez

Johnson

Danks

 

Formidable.

Hitters 6-9 in that lineup are automatic outs just about every time.

[GreenSox]

Major blockbuster proposal:

 

SP Chris Sale, CF Adam Eaton, and SS Tim Anderson for SS Xander Bogaerts, CF Mookie Betts, C Blake Swihart, 3B Rafael Devers, and SP Eduardo Rodriguez

 

Who says no?

Well, this is a cool trade.

Honestly, I don't think it's quite enough for the Sox. If you leave Anderson off, I'm there or maybe one of the Johnsons instead of Anderson.

 

Bosox wouldn't do it because it messes up their current team and they plan on contending.

Edited November 18, 2015 by GreenSox

[Buehrle>Wood]

There's nothing formidable about that team

[fredmanrique]

Our

There's nothing formidable about that team

Long time reader, first time poster. If we go the trade sale route then move everyone and lets fill the park by mid 2017

 

Sale, eaton and robertson to boston for Bogarets, Betts, Swihart, Devers, Bradley Jr (Leaving Moncada out makes this feel plausible )

 

Abreu and Quintana to Pittsburgh for Glasnow, A Meadows and J Bell.

 

Keep Melky and Danks until the deadline. Let LaRoche rot while melky plays dh for a bit. By 2017 with money to spare:

 

1. Betts CF

2. Bogarets SS

3. A Meadows RF

4. J Bell 1B

5. Swihart C

6. Melky or upgrade if traded DH

7. Devers or spend money if not ready or M Johnson 3b

8. JBJ LF

9. T Anderson 2B

 

Rodon, Fulmer, Glasnow, Tons of money left to add if E Johnson, Danish, etc aren't viable

 

If Im Pitt or Bos I do these deals. We are not close in 2016 so stink for one year, get a top pick and be thrilled with this team in 2017 maintaining thompson, montas, sanchez, etc as well

 

 

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Boston will not trade a boatload of prospects for Sale.

[Chicago White Sox]

Boston will not trade a boatload of prospects for Sale.

Why? They just traded a boatload of prospects for a closer.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Why? They just traded a boatload of prospects for a closer.

 

Is this the Boston Harbor? How many boats do you think they got?

[Dick Allen]

Why? They just traded a boatload of prospects for a closer.

Precisely the reason. They gave up a ton of prospects. They aren't going to empty the cupboard.

[Chicago White Sox]

Precisely the reason. They gave up a ton of prospects. They aren't going to empty the cupboard.

I don't see them giving up the chips it would take to get Sale, but I definitely see them trading for a starter.

[lasttriptotulsa]

I don't see them giving up the chips it would take to get Sale, but I definitely see them trading for a starter.

 

I don't see why Boston would want to give up a bunch of prospects to acquire a starter. Money is not an issue for them and there are plenty of good free agent starters available. Why give up the talent when you can just go out and buy one and lose nothing more than a draft pick?

[SCCWS]

I don't see them giving up the chips it would take to get Sale, but I definitely see them trading for a starter.

 

I don't. My gut says they used the prospects to get a reliever because they will use FA to get 2 starters. I thought they would trade Ramirez + big cash for pitching but w Ortiz announcement they can stash him at 1B for a year then move him to DH.