Harry Chappas Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 The value of Quintana and Sale will never be higher than it is right now. Proven track records and health will not be greater next year. A lost year of cost control, 200 innings and potential health issues make it the time to do something now. You either take the steps to improve for 2016 or you move one or both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 16, 2015 -> 11:04 PM) That's true. But they're available. Equivalent level hitters are not. Stanton almost was, but he wasn't. $150 to $200 million in savings also has a price tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 08:24 AM) I'd be willing to bet that Sale would get $400+ million if he was on the open market this offseason. I think he would get a billion to a billion and and a half for 7 years with an opt out after 4, so he could make $2 billion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 09:10 AM) The value of Quintana and Sale will never be higher than it is right now. Proven track records and health will not be greater next year. A lost year of cost control, 200 innings and potential health issues make it the time to do something now. You either take the steps to improve for 2016 or you move one or both of them. I disagree, have you seen the FA crop for SP next offseason? It is downright ugly, and Sale/Quintana would probably have more value next offseason even with the loss of a year of control. Teams are still going to need SP next year, and trade will be pretty much the only way to go. Right now there are tons of options in free agency, so the return wouldn't be as high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 09:10 AM) Lol. You can't be serious right? The richest contract for a pitcher in baseball history belongs to Clayton Kershaw at 7 years, $215 million. Before signing that contract Kershaw had already won 2 Cy Youngs, 3 ERA titles, and a triple crown. You really think that Sale would get nearly double the guaranteed money when he has not accomplished what Kershaw has and has lingering durability concerns? Even if it were a 10 year deal it would have to be $40+ million per year which is roughly 33% more per year than Kershaw makes. While I think $400 million is a bit crazy, I could see something between $250 and $300 with the dearth of pitchers around next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I would pay Sale a trazillion with 50 player options. I would give him the bonilla contract x 500 forevs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 09:44 AM) I think he would get a billion to a billion and and a half for 7 years with an opt out after 4, so he could make $2 billion. Well assuming roughly $7 million per WAR, Sale would only need to be a 20-30 WAR player each year for the next 7 to justify that contract. I think he can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Sox should trade Sale to Europe for Italy and an Slavic nation to be named later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Ok, maybe $400 million is a little crazy, but I do think he'd get a deal similar to Kershaw at the very least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 11:07 AM) Ok, maybe $400 million is a little crazy, but I do think he'd get a deal similar to Kershaw at the very least. He keeps pitching the way he has been, he certainly won't be with this organization after 2019. Contracts escalate every offseason. He'll get a 7/8 year deal worth at least 30/35 mill a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 11:28 AM) He keeps pitching the way he has been, he certainly won't be with this organization after 2019. Contracts escalate every offseason. He'll get a 7/8 year deal worth at least 30/35 mill a year. That's kind of what I was hinting at. Kershaw would get way more than $215 million in today's market for aces. Hell, Cueto or Zimmermann could get something close to that number this offseason and they're not even close to the talent level as Kershaw/Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 11:38 AM) That's kind of what I was hinting at. Kershaw would get way more than $215 million in today's market for aces. Hell, Cueto or Zimmermann could get something close to that number this offseason and they're not even close to the talent level as Kershaw/Sale. His contract is one year old, I dont think the market has changed that drastically over the past year. And Cueto and Zimmerman are not getting 200 million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 What if the Sox went to Sale after next season and told him they'll rip up the team options for 2018-19 if he signs a 5-year/$100 million contract for 2018-22. Sale gets a nice raise on those option years, $100M of guaranteed money where he had $0 before, and the chance for another contract at age 33. The Sox get three additional seasons from him at below market value. $100M seems low and I have a feeling it wouldn't be enough to get him to sign, but keep in mind that the Sox are taking on a lot more risk from Sale in this scenario; in his current deal, they hold all the cards. A number exists where he'd accept and it'd still be worth it for the Sox. $125? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 11:38 AM) That's kind of what I was hinting at. Kershaw would get way more than $215 million in today's market for aces. Hell, Cueto or Zimmermann could get something close to that number this offseason and they're not even close to the talent level as Kershaw/Sale. Also keep in mind that only one team was bidding on Kershaw when he signed that deal. Who knows what he gets on the open market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (shysocks @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 12:01 PM) What if the Sox went to Sale after next season and told him they'll rip up the team options for 2018-19 if he signs a 5-year/$100 million contract for 2018-22. Sale gets a nice raise on those option years, $100M of guaranteed money where he had $0 before, and the chance for another contract at age 33. The Sox get three additional seasons from him at below market value. $100M seems low and I have a feeling it wouldn't be enough to get him to sign, but keep in mind that the Sox are taking on a lot more risk from Sale in this scenario; in his current deal, they hold all the cards. A number exists where he'd accept and it'd still be worth it for the Sox. $125? I hope Sale gives the Sox a 'Hometown Discount' after his current deal is up, but I don't see that as being realistic. I'd love it though if he was on the Sox for his entire career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 12:27 PM) I hope Sale gives the Sox a 'Hometown Discount' after his current deal is up, but I don't see that as being realistic. I'd love it though if he was on the Sox for his entire career. Up to now, he really has no reason to give them a discount. Already signed a team-friendly deal and the team has been horrible over the past 3 years. I'm sure he'd rather go somewhere where he could compete.. We'll see how the next few years go and see if we have any success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 12:27 PM) I hope Sale gives the Sox a 'Hometown Discount' after his current deal is up, but I don't see that as being realistic. I'd love it though if he was on the Sox for his entire career. Prepare to be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 01:31 PM) Prepare to be disappointed. In all seriousness, if we get to the point where Sale is on the free agent market, at the prices that top pitchers are going for, I am plenty OK with letting someone else take a $250 or $300 million risk on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (shysocks @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 12:01 PM) What if the Sox went to Sale after next season and told him they'll rip up the team options for 2018-19 if he signs a 5-year/$100 million contract for 2018-22. Sale gets a nice raise on those option years, $100M of guaranteed money where he had $0 before, and the chance for another contract at age 33. The Sox get three additional seasons from him at below market value. $100M seems low and I have a feeling it wouldn't be enough to get him to sign, but keep in mind that the Sox are taking on a lot more risk from Sale in this scenario; in his current deal, they hold all the cards. A number exists where he'd accept and it'd still be worth it for the Sox. $125? I don't see either side pursuing that type of extension at this point but I wouldn't be surprised if they explored they idea after 2017 before they pick up his option. I think it would take something like adding another 5 years and a big pay increase in 2018 and 2019. Hard to say what the market will look like then but using today's market I would say adding $10 million each in 2018 and 2019 and then something like a 5 year, $125 million extension. Sale would effectively get $145 million in new money for the additional 5 year commitment. That would be close to the $31 million Kershaw is getting per year, but the Sox would 'only' effectively be paying him $171 million over 7 years. (~$24.4 million per year) Edited November 17, 2015 by lasttriptotulsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 01:33 PM) In all seriousness, if we get to the point where Sale is on the free agent market, at the prices that top pitchers are going for, I am plenty OK with letting someone else take a $250 or $300 million risk on him. Hard to look 4 years down the road and see where Sale, the franchise and the market would be but I basically agree with you. If the franchise is in roughly the same position financially that they are now there is no way they can commit $30 million per year to a single player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 01:31 PM) Prepare to be disappointed. Like I said, I know it's not realistic to expect it. I'll still root for him no matter what team he's on though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 15, 2015 -> 01:50 PM) Source assuming what you're talking about is the White Sox and Red Sox are talking about a deal? It's been mentioned in several articles that Dombrowski has checked with the A's about Sonny Gray and the White Sox about Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 04:10 PM) It's been mentioned in several articles that Dombrowski has checked with the A's about Sonny Gray and the White Sox about Sale. I haven't seen any that said he actually did. I have seen ones that said he should, or he could, not that he actually has done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 02:28 PM) I haven't seen any that said he actually did. I have seen ones that said he should, or he could, not that he actually has done it. Given Dombroski's track-record and history of finding ace starting rotations (and building around an ace or two) as well as his aggressiveness when it comes to trade (and use his prospects), I would be stunned if he hasn't asked the Sox about Sale. Absolutely stunned. I also think Sale is probably the best chip to move, but obviously a lot of risk with moving him. You need to get a huge haul and you need to be extremely confident in your scouting. I'm to the point now that I used to be totally focused on pitching, that I'm totally switched and we need to find talented, toolsy, multi-faceted position players who can contribute on a daily basis. While Sale is amazing and awesome (as is Q), the premium right now is on positional talent. Pitching is just so freaking good that the old addage of you can never have too much good pitching is less true because their is just so much damn good pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Given the fragility of pitchers today (in part because of pitch counts...) you can never have to much pitching in my opinion. It is still the most precious commodity in the game. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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