SoCalSox Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 09:16 PM) Ya the Royals are losing Shields, may trade pen pieces for a bat. They have to struggle and manufacture runs. Very little power in the lineup. Tigers bullpen sucks, lost Hunter, their SS has injury issues. They may lose Scherzer. Verlander is declining. Truth is this division will beat up on each other. I simply think it's realistic to think that the Sox can compete in this division. In the playoffs, anything can happen, as we've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 David Robertson's Awesome Strange Arsenal http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/david-rober...trange-arsenal/ Breaks down how Robertson's slower pitchers still get the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 01:50 AM) David Robertson's Awesome Strange Arsenal http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/david-rober...trange-arsenal/ Breaks down how Robertson's slower pitchers still get the job done. Visual aid. His fastball does seem to have a jump at the end. Certain looks faster than 92. I can't figure out if his breaking pitch reminds me more of Jenks or Santos. I think Santos because Jenks was more 12-6. Santos has more slider movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 04:45 AM) Well if you want to see an opinion that is as negative as possible about the team here it is. i don't necessary agree. if anything, this was a cold hard analysis of this team. looking or concentrating on real possibilities of what can go wrong. after last yr explosion, i would like to know what are the options to recover. that one item about loosing Bassitt is very true. (i like the trade) i am not going to look at this team thru rose colored glasses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 06:19 AM) I simply think it's realistic to think that the Sox can compete in this division. In the playoffs, anything can happen, as we've seen. oh i think that the sox can and will compete, this trade will make Det to shell out the money for their FA pitcher. all the AL teams will have to take notice at the sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 06:05 PM) Great post. It's always good to have a closer with a track record. Not meaning to start a fight here, but is this guy a LOT better than Addison Reed? But having a closer is great cause we can put some of those other guys in the battle for setup guys. It really was annoying last year seeing our guys blow game after game. I hope he gets off to a good start and is an effective closer all year. Great point. Just imagine if Davidson wins the job and fulfills the promise the Sox obviously thought he had. Would be amazing if we had a power bat at third and he could field at least as good as Gillaspie. Among the most predictable questions from Greg, ever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 03:06 AM) Visual aid. His fastball does seem to have a jump at the end. Certain looks faster than 92. I can't figure out if his breaking pitch reminds me more of Jenks or Santos. I think Santos because Jenks was more 12-6. Santos has more slider movement. First off, what an awful song selection for that video lol. Secondly, he does have some life to his fastball at the end it looks like. Robertson definitely fits the mold what Hahn wants to build with a ground ball/strikeout pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shago Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 08:32 PM) I thought about it, and then I kicked myself in the nuts to simulate what bringing back Belisario would feel like to Sox fans. I just repeated to remind myself. Blow-a-savio might be the worst pitcher in Sox history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 09:58 PM) Exactly what I was thinking... Oh well. No one is going to burst my bubble. With a better closer, this was close to a .500 team last year. Good pieces so far this year lead me to believe they can contend. We're a 79-83 win team right now. Not 87-88 or even 90+. That's the main point. It's easy to play the Devil's Advocate part and talk about the negatives. Obviously, there are an equal or greater number of positives, and I've pointed them out in both the Robertson and Samardzija threads as well. Edited December 10, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shago Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 08:58 AM) We're a 79-83 win team right now. Not 87-88 or even 90+. That's the main point. It's easy to play the Devil's Advocate part and talk about the negatives. Obviously, there are an equal or greater number of positives, and I've pointed them out in both the Robertson and Samardzija threads as well. Couldn't agree more .... Incredible amount of holes to fill .... Not there yet. Robertson signing was just plain stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 10:45 PM) Well if you want to see an opinion that is as negative as possible about the team here it is. QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 08:58 AM) We're a 79-83 win team right now. Not 87-88 or even 90+. That's the main point. It's easy to play the Devil's Advocate part and talk about the negatives. Obviously, there are an equal or greater number of positives, and I've pointed them out in both the Robertson and Samardzija threads as well. QUOTE (La Marr Hoyt HOF @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 09:06 AM) Couldn't agree more .... Incredible amount of holes to fill .... Not there yet. Robertson signing was just plain stupid. Just for reference, I actually see a couple potentially major issues Caulfield left out (that's right, Caulfield's list was not long enough). But I will add a different set of edits. I think this is still a sub .500 team if we see the normal mix of "things going wrong and things going right". A big difference from last year though is that "if everything goes right, we actually have a shot to be really good". You can tell I'm not confident about everything going right and I think my biggest reason for thinking that has been made pretty clear, but I thought that was an important point to add to Caulfield's list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 03:21 PM) Just for reference, I actually see a couple potentially major issues Caulfield left out (that's right, Caulfield's list was not long enough). But I will add a different set of edits. I think this is still a sub .500 team if we see the normal mix of "things going wrong and things going right". A big difference from last year though is that "if everything goes right, we actually have a shot to be really good". You can tell I'm not confident about everything going right and I think my biggest reason for thinking that has been made pretty clear, but I thought that was an important point to add to Caulfield's list. wow, that took alot of courage to add that. good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) I know what Balta's going to say.... 1) We can't entirely trust Ventura with a potential playoff team saddled with high expectations...for example, Francona's made a pretty big difference in CLE (seemingly) and despite their critics, Yost and Ausmus have guided teams to the playoffs/World Series as well 2) Baserunning....Eaton hasn't established himself as a stolen base threat, Ramirez is aging and we just lost Semien's speed as well...seemingly the main hope is going to be Micah Johnson and Tim Anderson in the future, unless we add another speedster in LF 3) Goes with #1....with DeAza/Dunn/Beckham/Konerko already gone and Viciedo on the way out the door, are we going to see better execution (for example, runner on 3rd with less than 2 outs) and more "team play" from an almost completely different roster....or will the same mistakes keep cropping up? Edited December 10, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 09:20 AM) I know what Balta's going to say.... 1) We can't entirely trust Ventura with a potential playoff team saddled with high expectations...for example, Francona's made a pretty big difference in CLE (seemingly) and despite their critics, Yost and Ausmus have guided teams to the playoffs/World Series as well 2) Baserunning....Eaton hasn't established himself as a stolen base threat, Ramirez is aging and we just lost Semien's speed as well...seemingly the main hope is going to be Micah Johnson and Tim Anderson in the future, unless we add another speedster in LF 3) Goes with #1....with DeAza/Dunn/Beckham/Konerko already gone and Viciedo on the way out the door, are we going to see better execution (for example, runner on 3rd with less than 2 outs) and more "team play" from an almost completely different roster....or will the same mistakes keep cropping up? Not to even mention Finnegan and Duffy. On to 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Yost is the worst strategic manager in the entire league. If his team, under-talented compared to the field, can make it to WS despite him, then are just fine with Robin Ventura no matter what you think of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 11:13 AM) I am the only one who's not worried about KC at all? Everything went their way last year and they shouldn't have made it past the WC game. They lose their best pitcher and one of their best hitters. Yes, their young pitching is great but I'll take the top of our rotation over theirs any day of the week. I think Cleveland is the second best team in the division right now. Unless they do something big, they are going to take a huge hit next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpd9189 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 11:24 AM) Unless they do something big, they are going to take a huge hit next season. To be fair to KC, there's still a lot of times to make moves. Not everything has to get done at the Winter Meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 10:56 AM) Yost is the worst strategic manager in the entire league. If his team, under-talented compared to the field, can make it to WS despite him, then are just fine with Robin Ventura no matter what you think of him. Is he? I know he made that one faux pas in the Playin game, but is he that bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 06:24 PM) Unless they do something big, they are going to take a huge hit next season. the way KC is addressing their additions this offseason, you better believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 11:13 AM) I am the only one who's not worried about KC at all? Everything went their way last year and they shouldn't have made it past the WC game. They lose their best pitcher and one of their best hitters. Yes, their young pitching is great but I'll take the top of our rotation over theirs any day of the week. I think Cleveland is the second best team in the division right now. I would agree. I think their chances are less but they are still talented. It will depend how they make up the Shields deficit. He was a big part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 06:51 PM) I would agree. I think their chances are less but they are still talented. It will depend how they make up the Shields deficit. He was a big part of it. good point. however the way things are going, shields may resign, unless that ship sailed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 12:24 PM) Unless they do something big, they are going to take a huge hit next season. IF we wanted to look at them from the optimistic side, don't they still have a lot of guys with room to grow too? They've lost Shields but they've got young pitching pretty close to ready and other guys who seem like they could still get better right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 If you like KC going forward, you have to buy into Hosmer and Moustakas' second halves being "breakouts" rather than "hot streaks." Losing Butler shouldn't impact them much, because they didn't REALLY have his production last year, since he was terrible. You also have to really believe in Danny Duffy. Honestly I don't think we're THAT much worse. They're more balanced, for sure. Our defense is horribad (but not as bad as Cleveland's ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconOnAStick Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I don't need to buy Moustakas or Hosmer to buy the Royals. That OF is really, really good. Alex Gordon is a stud in left, Dyson is so much more than just a pinch runner/defensive replacement and Cain is quickly becoming one of the best overall OF in the game. The bullpen is still nails and the rotation is not going to feel the loss of Shields as much as most people think. Yordano is an ace in the making and Vargas/Duffy/Finnegan/Zimmer fills them out pretty well. Escobar at short and Perez behind the plate are damn good at what they do too. If you're looking for a team to really fall apart it's the Tigers. The cracks started showing last season, I don't think they've done nearly enough to caulk that roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 01:50 PM) If you like KC going forward, you have to buy into Hosmer and Moustakas' second halves being "breakouts" rather than "hot streaks." Losing Butler shouldn't impact them much, because they didn't REALLY have his production last year, since he was terrible. You also have to really believe in Danny Duffy. Honestly I don't think we're THAT much worse. They're more balanced, for sure. Our defense is horribad (but not as bad as Cleveland's ) Their bullpen is going to regress a bit too. I'm not too worried about them either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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