Rowand44 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 3, 2015 -> 02:00 PM) Anyone who has room on their ballot for Sammy Sosa or Mark McGwire is an idiot. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 4, 2015 -> 02:11 PM) Why? Because neither could put up Hall of Fame numbers without juicing their brains out. I can see putting in a proportionate amount of candidates from the Era in, and that would include Bonds and Clemens, but Sosa wouldn't have hit 400 homers without hardcore steroids, and McGwire was on his last legs in the mid-90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 12:56 PM) Because neither could put up Hall of Fame numbers without juicing their brains out. I can see putting in a proportionate amount of candidates from the Era in, and that would include Bonds and Clemens, but Sosa wouldn't have hit 400 homers without hardcore steroids, and McGwire was on his last legs in the mid-90's. Neither could Mike Piazza, then why aren't all those voters idiots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 12:57 PM) Neither could Mike Piazza, then why aren't all those voters idiots? Like I said, I would put in a proportionate amount of players from the Era in. If a person is willing to vote for guys on roids, then it probably starts with Bonds and Clemens. Then Piazza and Bagwell. Biggio, Pedro, Randy Johnson, Smoltz, Mussina, Schilling. If a person actually has room on their 10-man ballot for Sosa and/or McGwire, I don't get it at all. Edited January 5, 2015 by flavum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Bob Nightengale gets it, this sums up my thoughts completely http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2...emens/21290463/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 6, 2015 -> 08:13 AM) Bob Nightengale gets it, this sums up my thoughts completely http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2...emens/21290463/ Yeah, that's a good summary. Not sure if he means he would put in Palmeiro, McGwire, and Sosa if he had the chance, but I agree with most of what he's saying. Anyway, looks like the only suspense is Piazza getting in, and if McGwire and Sosa will fall off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 5, 2015 -> 01:03 PM) Like I said, I would put in a proportionate amount of players from the Era in. If a person is willing to vote for guys on roids, then it probably starts with Bonds and Clemens. Then Piazza and Bagwell. Biggio, Pedro, Randy Johnson, Smoltz, Mussina, Schilling. If a person actually has room on their 10-man ballot for Sosa and/or McGwire, I don't get it at all. You have no idea who did and didn't though. That makes this argument stupid. There are already guys in the HOF that have used PED's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 6, 2015 -> 08:13 AM) Bob Nightengale gets it, this sums up my thoughts completely http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2...emens/21290463/ I completely agree with what he says in that article, don't agree with his ballot though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 6, 2015 -> 09:03 AM) You have no idea who did and didn't though. That makes this argument stupid. There are already guys in the HOF that have used PED's. I know there are players in the Hall that did steroids and other PEDs already, that's why I would be willing to put in Clemens and Bonds. But I would also use my instincts and common sense not to go overboard on the amount of players from that Era going in. So for the players that made their debut from 1984-1995, I would put in: Roberto Alomar Jeff Bagwell Craig Biggio Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Tom Glavine Ken Griffey, Jr. Derek Jeter Randy Johnson Chipper Jones Barry Larkin Greg Maddux Pedro Martinez Fred McGriff Mike Mussina Mike Piazza Kirby Puckett Manny Ramirez Mariano Rivera Alex Rodriguez Ivan Rodriguez Curt Schilling John Smoltz Frank Thomas Jim Thome That's 25 from a 12-year period. I can look at this group and feel these are the best-of-the-best from the Era. Some juiced, some didn't, some we'll never know. But it looks good to me. Edited January 6, 2015 by flavum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 What a load of crap. Baseball ignored this for generations. That isn't our fault. That it the fault of baseball and even the writers who ignored it in order to not burn bridges and sources. Now the writers are frustrated because their ballots are screwed up with too many players because of the divide on how to handle the steroid era. Just because baseball made mistakes in the past, also doesn't mean it is OK to keep making them. Just because we don't know who did in the past, doesn't mean we can punish the ones we know did, and the ones we know, that they knew, they were cheating the system. This false equivalency between the good ol' days and today doesn't fly with me. There is a clear divide between the drugs of the modern era and things like amphetamines of the old days. Baseball made its bed, it can sleep in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 6, 2015 -> 09:37 AM) I know there are players in the Hall that did steroids and other PEDs already, that's why I would be willing to put in Clemens and Bonds. But I would also use my instincts and common sense not to go overboard on the amount of players from that Era going in. So for the players that made their debut from 1984-1995, I would put in: Roberto Alomar Jeff Bagwell Craig Biggio Barry Bonds Roger Clemens Tom Glavine Ken Griffey, Jr. Derek Jeter Randy Johnson Chipper Jones Barry Larkin Greg Maddux Pedro Martinez Fred McGriff Mike Mussina Mike Piazza Kirby Puckett Manny Ramirez Mariano Rivera Alex Rodriguez Ivan Rodriguez Curt Schilling John Smoltz Frank Thomas Jim Thome That's 25 from a 12-year period. I can look at this group and feel these are the best-of-the-best from the Era. Some juiced, some didn't, some we'll never know. But it looks good to me. That's a good list. My bad dude. I misread your initial statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 6, 2015 -> 09:37 AM) What a load of crap. Baseball ignored this for generations. That isn't our fault. That it the fault of baseball and even the writers who ignored it in order to not burn bridges and sources. Now the writers are frustrated because their ballots are screwed up with too many players because of the divide on how to handle the steroid era. Just because baseball made mistakes in the past, also doesn't mean it is OK to keep making them. Just because we don't know who did in the past, doesn't mean we can punish the ones we know did, and the ones we know, that they knew, they were cheating the system. This false equivalency between the good ol' days and today doesn't fly with me. There is a clear divide between the drugs of the modern era and things like amphetamines of the old days. Baseball made its bed, it can sleep in it. I really believe there needs to be an exhibit about this era and the players who achieved amazing results. I'd even like to see baseball accept some of the responsibility. Not a hall of shame, but recognize what has become a major chapter in baseball history. I would also include guys like Pete Rose in a similar section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.