Balta1701 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 04:00 PM) Technically speaking the upside from the trade perspective would be with Marlins. If Rienzo can pan out in the NL into a 4th / 5th starter, probably more valuable than Jennings upside as a reliever. How likli that is is another story but I could see plenty of scenarios where Rienzo contributes a greater WAR long term than Jennings. Jennings happens to be a nice fit for now but comes with his own issues. We aren't talking about some stud reliever here, rather a solid back of the pen guy with really bad lefty splits. But if you've got one guy Coop says "I can work with" and one guy Coop says "I can't work with".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 02:57 PM) I geuinely think you are the only White Sox fan who could find anything wrong with this deal at all. Just pointing out factors. If Jennings and his 1.5 WHIP was on this team, you guys would want to cut him. Edited December 11, 2014 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 01:01 PM) But if you've got one guy Coop says "I can work with" and one guy Coop says "I can't work with".... I'm not saying its a bad trade, just saying, I could see the player we traded having more success elsewhere. Clearly you consider what Coop says but also isn't a lot of this talk about Coop disliking Rienzo pure speculation. Or has Coop came out somewhere and blasted him saying he'll never be anything. I don't have a problem with this trade but I don't think this is really a deal to get super excited for and I can't say that Hahn dominated everyone on this deal. A year ago I'd have been pretty pissed if we traded Rienzo for a reliever like this. Rienzo did struggle this year so that impacts things a bit but again, I think long-term, he has a shot at sticking as a 4th/5th starter. We aren't the right fit for him so we are trading from an area of surplus and filling an area that isn't but I really can't fault the Marlins for trading a reliever for a guy who could into a cost controlled back of the rotation starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 01:04 PM) Just pointing out factors. If Jennings and his 1.5 WHIP was on this team, you guys would want to cut him. The WHIP is the exact reason I can't get overly ecstatic about this trade. I just don't know how you can have sustainable long term success based with that sort of WHIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 12:59 PM) I also wouldn't be surprised if Rienzo had a decent career at some point. He has decent stuff, strong fastball and curve ball as well as room to grow on both, but that doesn't mean I have any problem with this deal. Ok...I think you and are on the same wavelength here. I'm just saying, from the Marlins perspective, I totally see why they would make this deal. I also don't really see Jennings as some key cog to our pens success. I think the key to him being valuable is if Coop can truly fix him cause if he pitches the same as he did last year, to be frank, I think he'd piss off a lot of Soxtalk cause that WHIP, over a long-term timeframe, is going to result in quite a few runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Rick Hahn is based god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 02:59 PM) I also wouldn't be surprised if Rienzo had a decent career at some point. He has decent stuff, strong fastball and curve ball as well as room to grow on both, but that doesn't mean I have any problem with this deal. He is going to end up as something between a bad 5th starter, and a decent set up guy, at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 02:35 PM) It wouldn't surprise me if Rienzo has a good major league career. He has a plus pitch. I don't think the Sox liked him though. Jennings walks too many. Bad WHIP. We'll see. In all fairness, Rienzo walks more batters and has a higher WHIP than Jennings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 03:01 PM) But if you've got one guy Coop says "I can work with" and one guy Coop says "I can't work with".... I think that's exactly what this trade is. Our problem child for their problem child. Bud pardon me for not jumping for joy believing that we've made some big bullpen upgrade with a 1.5 WHIP pitcher. Coop has some fixing to do before that happens. W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 03:04 PM) Just pointing out factors. If Jennings and his 1.5 WHIP was on this team, you guys would want to cut him. QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 03:06 PM) The WHIP is the exact reason I can't get overly ecstatic about this trade. I just don't know how you can have sustainable long term success based with that sort of WHIP. Not all WHIP is created equal though. I see a guy who gets a lot of ground balls who was on a team who may not have had a ton of range or defensive prowess. The Sox infield defense could be better than it is, but I feel safe saying it's better than the Marlins. Maybe the Marlins can tweak Rienzo, but I was definitely wrong on him. We're complaining about Jennings putting up a high WHIP in the majors, but Rienzo's was just as bad in AAA this past year, which does not bode well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) And his career FIP is 3.58. Didn't know WHIP was more important. Thanks Greensox. Goodness enjoy the ride guys Hahn just turned Rienz o into a guy that by the numbers probably would have been the Soxs 2nd best pen arm last year. Missing bats is a great equalizer. Edited December 11, 2014 by chitownsportsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 01:21 PM) Not all WHIP is created equal though. I see a guy who gets a lot of ground balls who was on a team who may not have had a ton of range or defensive prowess. The Sox infield defense could be better than it is, but I feel safe saying it's better than the Marlins. Maybe the Marlins can tweak Rienzo, but I was definitely wrong on him. We're complaining about Jennings putting up a high WHIP in the majors, but Rienzo's was just as bad in AAA this past year, which does not bode well. Based upon the below, not too sure about that. This was the Def per Fangraphs for each team by respective positions. I don't know enough about Marlins to say whether these stats make sense or not. Looking at the Sox it all makes sense although I really can't figure how 1B can be so negative for either team, presume that is just more some form of positional factor or something? Marlins Team Infield D: SS: +.4 2B: -.5 3B: 1.4 1B: -19 Total: -17.7 White Sox Team D: SS: +7.3 2B: -4.4 3B: -2.4 1B: -18.3 Total: -17.8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 03:32 PM) Based upon the below, not too sure about that. This was the Def per Fangraphs for each team by respective positions. I don't know enough about Marlins to say whether these stats make sense or not. Looking at the Sox it all makes sense although I really can't figure how 1B can be so negative for either team, presume that is just more some form of positional factor or something? Marlins Team Infield D: SS: +.4 2B: -.5 3B: 1.4 1B: -19 Total: -17.7 White Sox Team D: SS: +7.3 2B: -4.4 3B: -2.4 1B: -18.3 Total: -17.8 Abreu had a terrible start, and then Adam Dunn and Paul Konerko for the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 03:21 PM) Not all WHIP is created equal though. I see a guy who gets a lot of ground balls who was on a team who may not have had a ton of range or defensive prowess. The Sox infield defense could be better than it is, but I feel safe saying it's better than the Marlins. Maybe the Marlins can tweak Rienzo, but I was definitely wrong on him. We're complaining about Jennings putting up a high WHIP in the majors, but Rienzo's was just as bad in AAA this past year, which does not bode well. Nobody's complaining about the trade. No one has said this is a trade that the Sox should not have made. While he does miss bats, he also walks players- not exactly what you want in the 7th and 8th (especially in situations where bats need to be missed). this idea that he's better than any incumbent Sox pitcher is "Grass is always greener" on steroids. the Sox have done well eyeballing other teams pens for guys with some control issues like this so it wouldn't surprise me at all if it turns out extremely well. Edited December 11, 2014 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Ball Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 10:06 PM) The WHIP is the exact reason I can't get overly ecstatic about this trade. I just don't know how you can have sustainable long term success based with that sort of WHIP. He was unlucky with a high BABIP though (.339). Assuming that regresses to a more reasonable level this year then the hit rate should fall and the WHIP will reduce. He's an above average pitcher. Gets a lot of ground balls from his fastball (52% GB/BIP vs MLB average of 36%) and his slider has an excellent whiff rate (~40% Whiff/Swing career and ~44% in '14 vs MLB average of ~32%). Should be a nice addition to the 'pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Rienzo ends up like Massett when he left and Jennings ends up like Thornton when he came here and everyone lives happily every after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Dan Hayes @CSNHayes 2h2 hours ago Don Cooper said Dan Jennings won't need a new pitch, just a "mechanical alteration." White Sox like the LHP. http://bit.ly/1vHCZxT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Allison Urycki @AllisonUrycki the great moment when your ex gets traded from the white sox to Miami! Thank you sweet baby jesus! ??#hegone #imfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 04:15 PM) Dan Hayes @CSNHayes 2h2 hours ago Don Cooper said Dan Jennings won't need a new pitch, just a "mechanical alteration." White Sox like the LHP. http://bit.ly/1vHCZxT Why does he need an alteration? His numbers look really good. What am I missing here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 QUOTE (spiderman @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 04:32 PM) Why does he need an alteration? His numbers look really good. What am I missing here? Lefties his him hard and his WHIP is very high for his ERA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 QUOTE (southside hitman @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 11:33 PM) Lefties his him hard and his WHIP is very high for his ERA. And we are putting him in front of a not so good defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) Coop screamed uncle with Rienzo. He sucks. Jennings may suck. I will take the may suck over the does suck every time. If there is an adjustment that makes him real good, great. If not, all i remember about Rienzo appearances are lots of runners and a lot of shots of Coop pissed off in the dugout. It wasn't happening for Andre with the White Sox. Edited December 11, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 05:10 PM) This should mean no relief work for Rodon I think e is better as a starter, but might be starting at AAA in 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Clearly a glaring mechanical issue that Coop saw with this one. I don't usually cry "Coop will fix him" but this seems like a guy that Cooper is pretty confident that he can improve and this dude is already a solid reliever. This could turn out pretty damn good for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 04:16 PM) Allison Urycki @AllisonUrycki the great moment when your ex gets traded from the white sox to Miami! Thank you sweet baby jesus! ??#hegone #imfree HAHAHAHA, Andre a bit of a stalker?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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