Robin Ventura Bullpen Management

[lvjeremylv]

Way to miss the forest for the trees.

 

I am equating taking the same "profession" and asking them to do two completely different things within that profession. Tex is a middle school teacher. Asking him to teach K on a moments notice is akin to asking your middle reliever to close.

I think you're comparing apples & oranges. Yes I agree it's important that a bullpen have clearly defined roles, if the situation lends itself to it. Due to injuries and ineffectiveness in 2014 for the White Sox, the situation wasn't ideal for clearly defined roles. So I think Robin and the rest of the coaching staff did the best with what they had to work with. And the results were often ugly.

 

Is coming in for the 8th inning really COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than coming in for the 7th? I agree that the closer role is specialized and yes, you could make the argument that it's completely different than pitching in a set-up role. But to say that because Belisario was pitching in the 8th instead of the 6th, or because Lindstrom was pitching in the 7th instead of the 8th, that was the reason for their struggles - I think is an excuse, and a rather flimsy one, for their failures.

[southsider2k5]

.....

 

So which would you rather be?

 

The first, without question.

[lvjeremylv]

The first, without question.

So you'd choose personal success over team success in a team sport? Glad you don't play for the Sox.

[southsider2k5]

So you'd choose personal success over team success in a team sport? Glad you don't play for the Sox.

 

As a General Manager? Every.Single.Time. You build a team off of good players, not luck. The idea that is a pitcher is better because of wins should have been buried decades ago with the idea that a manager who screams a lot somehow cares more.\

 

As a player, I'd rather be the better pitcher, as it gives my team a better chance to win on a nightly basis.

[Eminor3rd]

And yet they don't matter when evaluating pitchers?

 

Those are different stats.

[witesoxfan]

I never said that.

 

Would you rather be 7-15 with a 2.00 ERA, or 20-3 with a 4.75 ERA?

 

Considering Rick Hahn just acquired a guy who went 7-13 with a 2.99 ERA last year over 219.2 IP, I think we know his answer.

[Eminor3rd]

I think his bullpen management was great. He would pick a closer and go with them until it was obvious they had to be replaced.

Not crazy of all the situational lefty/righty crap, but it's not Robin. All managers do it way too early in games.

I was incensed that game he ran out of pitchers. Hope that never happens again. But Robin's bullpen management was fine. He had one of the worst collection of pitchers to work with, expecially the few lefty hacks he was provided.

 

Yeah greg!

[Eminor3rd]

So you'd choose personal success over team success in a team sport? Glad you don't play for the Sox.

 

When acquiring players? Yes, lol.

 

Are you saying that we should go after bad players who will be overpriced because they lucked into success? Glad YOU don't work for the Sox.

[southsider2k5]

Considering Rick Hahn just acquired a guy who went 7-13 with a 2.99 ERA last year over 219.2 IP, I think we know his answer.

 

/thread

[lvjeremylv]

When acquiring players? Yes, lol.

 

Are you saying that we should go after bad players who will be overpriced because they lucked into success? Glad YOU don't work for the Sox.

Of course when acquiring players you go with the one with better stats (ERA, WHIP, K/BB ratio, batting average, RBI's, OBP, etc).

 

My original question was, would you rather have had a season with lots of personal success while the team struggled, or one where your team did better while your stats suffered. I, personally, would rather be on a team that won more games.

 

Or here's another one. Would you rather be Brad Johnson, NFL QB, who never did much in terms of personal stats or fame, but won a Super Bowl? Or Dan Marino who held lots of records but never won the big game? I, personally, would take the career of Brad Johnson. Some people might call that crazy, but I guess it's about personal preference.

 

So in review. In hindsight, I'd take wins over anything. In looking to the future and trying to predict what's more likely to happen when compiling players on a team? I'll take stats and not look at wins, particularly for pitchers, because yes, they are quite overrated.

[witesoxfan]

Of course when acquiring players you go with the one with better stats (ERA, WHIP, K/BB ratio, batting average, RBI's, OBP, etc).

 

My original question was, would you rather have had a season with lots of personal success while the team struggled, or one where your team did better while your stats suffered. I, personally, would rather be on a team that won more games.

 

Or here's another one. Would you rather be Brad Johnson, NFL QB, who never did much in terms of personal stats or fame, but won a Super Bowl? Or Dan Marino who held lots of records but never won the big game? I, personally, would take the career of Brad Johnson. Some people might call that crazy, but I guess it's about personal preference.

 

So in review. In hindsight, I'd take wins over anything. In looking to the future and trying to predict what's more likely to happen when compiling players on a team? I'll take stats and not look at wins, particularly for pitchers, because yes, they are quite overrated.

 

Would I personally rather win a World Series or have better personal stats? I'd obviously rather win a World Series. But to get to that point, you need players who are good. A guy with a 4.85 ERA is not good.

 

If Jeff Samardzija has a poor year but someone steps up and the Sox still win the division, I'd be perfectly fine with that.

[Eminor3rd]

Of course when acquiring players you go with the one with better stats (ERA, WHIP, K/BB ratio, batting average, RBI's, OBP, etc).

 

My original question was, would you rather have had a season with lots of personal success while the team struggled, or one where your team did better while your stats suffered. I, personally, would rather be on a team that won more games.

 

Or here's another one. Would you rather be Brad Johnson, NFL QB, who never did much in terms of personal stats or fame, but won a Super Bowl? Or Dan Marino who held lots of records but never won the big game? I, personally, would take the career of Brad Johnson. Some people might call that crazy, but I guess it's about personal preference.

 

So in review. In hindsight, I'd take wins over anything. In looking to the future and trying to predict what's more likely to happen when compiling players on a team? I'll take stats and not look at wins, particularly for pitchers, because yes, they are quite overrated.

 

I mean, it really depends on context. For example, say I'm 25, late round draft pick, never supposed to get past AA. Some injuries happen when I'm playing well and I'm getting maybe my only real shot to stick in the big leagues, pulling a pro-rated $500k for the first time in my life. I'd rather have a good year. It's a big deal for me and it could be the difference between having a successful career and setting my family up financially forever or trying to figure out how to sell real estate. I don't think it's unreasonably selfish to want to establish yourself first. THEN go for the gold. Walk before you run.

 

If I'm a veteran who has already made my first $25m or whatever, of course I want the ring.

 

But what does this have to do with Robin's bullpen management and how bad the White Sox relievers were last year?

[lvjeremylv]

But what does this have to do with Robin's bullpen management and how bad the White Sox relievers were last year?

Not a thing. It's off-topic, which tends to happen when you get 50-200 people reading and commenting on a thread.

 

Thankfully the Sox pen figures to be much better, so we'll see how Robin handles it.