Evan Longoria

[Balta1701]

If Longoria can play at an all-star clip (WAR > 5) for the next 3 to 5 years, you have to start thinking about him as hall-of-fame material, don't you?

Yes. But then again, maintaining all-star level performance for 5 years isn't easy.

[LDF]

 

but what will the cost be to get him??? Anderson, Montas and Rodon?

[Balta1701]

but what will the cost be to get him??? Anderson, Montas and Rodon?

That's about what Tampa Bay should ask for.

[LDF]

That's about what Tampa Bay should ask for.

 

exactly.

[hi8is]

Give me Zobrist or give me death!

[LDF]

Give me Zobrist or give me death!

 

he would be a great addition i wonder what will be the cost?

 

 

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

he would be a great addition i wonder what will be the cost?

 

He would be perfect on this team. And he would require a fraction of what Longoria would get back in a trade.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Mike F.

[Quin]

Give me Zobrist or give me death!

 

He played college ball at ON nearby

[GreenSox]

but what will the cost be to get him??? Anderson, Montas and Rodon?

3 top 100s, incl some elite, for longoria?

 

Did I really read a comparison to Mike Schmidt?

 

Pure comedy has come at Christmas time.

 

And then when the egg nog wears off someone can explain how he he has 3x the value of Donaldson when they are similar players (albeit without the sportscenter fawning for Donaldson) when Donaldson has the superior contract that doesn't tie up a team during his declining years ( which are coming soon for longoria if not already underway)

Edited December 25, 2014 by GreenSox

[Balta1701]

he would be a great addition i wonder what will be the cost?

So, he's an underpaid player worth more in "value" than Samardzija was, equally close to FA, he ought to cost more than JS. He wouldn't rise to the level of Rodon, but something built around Anderson + Montas might be plausible if the Rays like those guys.

[LDF]

So, he's an underpaid player worth more in "value" than Samardzija was, equally close to FA, he ought to cost more than JS. He wouldn't rise to the level of Rodon, but something built around Anderson + Montas might be plausible if the Rays like those guys.

 

JS contract is in the hands of the sox brass. do i want him, JS signed, yeah but again

at what cost, is he worth 30 mil per? its all between JS agent and the sox FO.

 

my question of cost for Zobrist is twofold.

1. if the cost is doable and then yes get him. again the unknown cost is doable.

2. ok, if the cost is doable, get the expiring contract, try to sign him, if not give him

a qualifying offer and get a 1 round draft pick.

 

all i ask was a idea of what cost would it take on the sox to give up.

 

edit.... btw, thanks for the question, i liked it.

Edited December 26, 2014 by LDF

[witesoxfan]

It is going to cost Tim Anderson (plus some) to get Zobrist and he's going to be 34 years old. Acquiring Zobrist would be an incredibly short-sighted move that really doesn't mesh well with what the Sox have been doing this offseason.

 

I'd put the odds of the Sox acquiring Zobrist lower than the Sox acquiring Longoria, and the Rays aren't going to trade Longoria. The Sox probably have the talent necessary to acquire Zobrist, but it would destroy the top end talent in the minor league system, leave the Sox minor league system exactly where they were 2 years ago when Hahn took over, and the Sox still wouldn't be the favorites in the division, nevermind conceding all hope of re-signing Samardzija.

 

It's just not a move that makes sense and I doubt the Sox have done anything other than a possible email or text.

[Balta1701]

It is going to cost Tim Anderson (plus some) to get Zobrist and he's going to be 34 years old. Acquiring Zobrist would be an incredibly short-sighted move that really doesn't mesh well with what the Sox have been doing this offseason.

 

I'd put the odds of the Sox acquiring Zobrist lower than the Sox acquiring Longoria, and the Rays aren't going to trade Longoria. The Sox probably have the talent necessary to acquire Zobrist, but it would destroy the top end talent in the minor league system, leave the Sox minor league system exactly where they were 2 years ago when Hahn took over, and the Sox still wouldn't be the favorites in the division, nevermind conceding all hope of re-signing Samardzija.

 

It's just not a move that makes sense and I doubt the Sox have done anything other than a possible email or text.

I gotta at least partially disagree with that given that they already traded for one guy who is a free agent at the end of this year. That makes it make a fair amount more sense to me. The difference isn't that the move is short-sighted, it's that the Sox have been trying to sacrifice their depth in trades rather than their couple top guys.

[LDF]

It is going to cost Tim Anderson (plus some) to get Zobrist and he's going to be 34 years old. Acquiring Zobrist would be an incredibly short-sighted move that really doesn't mesh well with what the Sox have been doing this offseason.

 

I'd put the odds of the Sox acquiring Zobrist lower than the Sox acquiring Longoria, and the Rays aren't going to trade Longoria. The Sox probably have the talent necessary to acquire Zobrist, but it would destroy the top end talent in the minor league system, leave the Sox minor league system exactly where they were 2 years ago when Hahn took over, and the Sox still wouldn't be the favorites in the division, nevermind conceding all hope of re-signing Samardzija.

 

It's just not a move that makes sense and I doubt the Sox have done anything other than a possible email or text.

 

as you said and as many would say or think, heck yes that is a high price to pay.

 

there is several things that might prevent that, Rays need to shed salary, and acquire more

prospects. he is 34 and has an expiring contract. that in itself is or may be too much of a price

for some.

[witesoxfan]

I gotta at least partially disagree with that given that they already traded for one guy who is a free agent at the end of this year. That makes it make a fair amount more sense to me. The difference isn't that the move is short-sighted, it's that the Sox have been trying to sacrifice their depth in trades rather than their couple top guys.

 

Yeah, but look at what they gave up for Samardzija. I might be the biggest fan of Semien on the site (there are a few of us who will cagefight over that title at some point), but he's ultimately a guy who scouts project to be a league average player, which is valuable but was also from a position of strength for the Sox. The rest is as follows:

 

-a pitcher who projects as a back of the rotation starter or a middle reliever

-a 1B who has yet to show any sort of significant in-game power

-a catcher who was getting crowded out

 

The Sox could legitimately have replacements for all 4 currently in the system (depending on how you view Semien's status). Beyond that, the Sox were going to have to find room on the 40-man roster for guys like Robertson and Cabrera too, and that would have involved them giving up on at least one of these guys anyways - probably Phegley - so to capitalize on some of that value actually works better for the Sox in this instance.

 

I could see all of those guys having careers, and potentially long ones, but there isn't a super talented and/or can't miss prospect in that entire bunch. Tim Anderson, Carlos Rodon, and Frank Montas are super talented and/or can't miss prospects. The Sox can't afford to give up talent like that for a potential one year rental. With the talent the Sox have in house, they could absolutely afford to give up on good but still marginal talents in Bassitt, Ravelo, and Phegley without batting an eye, and given the Sox depth at SS/2B, they could afford to give up one of those guys too. Frankly, if you view Ynoa as a replacement for Bassitt within the system, you can cancel those two out and then it becomes Semein, Ravelo, and Phegley for Samardzija. That's a move you make every time too.

[BigFinn]

'Twas the day after Christmas, with nothing to do,

so I looked up Ben Zobrist (his stats) woo hoo?

 

Jay Jaffe lists Zobrist as the 34th best 2B of all time! I knew he was good but,34th all-time?!

 

Here is a list of the 10 most similar players according to Baseball-reference.com:

 

Aaron Boone—juicer

Dave Hollins—at age 29, he was traded from Philadelphia to Boston for OF Mark Whiten at age at age 30 he was traded from Minnesota to Seattle for a pre-juicing David Ortiz

Corey Koskie—traded from Toronto to Milwaukee for RP Brian Wolfe

Hector Lopez—traded from the KC Athletics to the Yankees as part of the deal that also sent Ralph Terry to the Yankees for Johnny Kucks, Jerry Lumpe, and Tom Sturdivant. The KC Athletics were the minor league feeder for the late fifties, early sixties Yankees. They also plucked Roger Maris in another deal (steal) from KC.

Don Hoak—Hoak was involved in three separate deals that included multiple players, the most famous of whom were Smokey Burgess (former White Sox pinch-hitter), Harvey Haddix (of the 12-inning, spoiled perfect game), and Frank Thomas (the “other” Frank Thomas, not our Hall of Famer, the Big Hurt). Hoak was at 3B when Dick Allen came up with the 1964 Phillies. Hoak played 6 games that year and never played in MLB after that. The way Allen played in ’64, Hoak was lucky to play in those six games!

Scott Spezio—Spezio was never involved in any trades. His Dad, Ed, played 3B for the Sox when Beltin’ Bill Melton was sidelined with back issues in 1972.

Bill Mueller—Mueller was involved in two trades: one for RP Tim Worrell, one for minor league pitcher Jeff Verplancke.

Milton Bradley—now we’re veering away from truly similar players to Ben Zobrist. Bradley was an outfielder who was frequently traded just to change the mix in the clubhouse.

Joe Randa—At age 35, (the point of this exercise), was traded from Cincinnati to the Padres for a couple of pitching prospects, Travis Chick and Justin Germano. Germano had a 9-year career as a spot starter and a middle reliever. Travis Chick never cracked his way into the big leagues. I think that Randa has been a hitting coach in recent days.

Bernard Gilkey—Gilkey was a part of a couple of multi-player deals, one of which include one-time Sox catcher Jorge Fabregas.

 

If the Sox want Ben Zobrist, he shouldn't cost that much - a couple of low-level lottery picks, a decent pitching prospect, or a relief pitcher off the 40-man roster.

 

But buyer beware: Koskie and Bradley were done after their age-33 seasons. Hollins, Spezio, Gilkey, and Randa were part-time players by age 34. Only Hoak, Lopez, and Mueller were still playing more-or-less full time into their mid-thirties. And only Bill Mueller played effectively into his mid-thirties.

[oldsox]

Yeah, but look at what they gave up for Samardzija. I might be the biggest fan of Semien on the site (there are a few of us who will cagefight over that title at some point), but he's ultimately a guy who scouts project to be a league average player, which is valuable but was also from a position of strength for the Sox. The rest is as follows:

 

-a pitcher who projects as a back of the rotation starter or a middle reliever

-a 1B who has yet to show any sort of significant in-game power

-a catcher who was getting crowded out

 

The Sox could legitimately have replacements for all 4 currently in the system (depending on how you view Semien's status). Beyond that, the Sox were going to have to find room on the 40-man roster for guys like Robertson and Cabrera too, and that would have involved them giving up on at least one of these guys anyways - probably Phegley - so to capitalize on some of that value actually works better for the Sox in this instance.

I could see all of those guys having careers, and potentially long ones, but there isn't a super talented and/or can't miss prospect in that entire bunch. Tim Anderson, Carlos Rodon, and Frank Montas are super talented and/or can't miss prospects. The Sox can't afford to give up talent like that for a potential one year rental. With the talent the Sox have in house, they could absolutely afford to give up on good but still marginal talents in Bassitt, Ravelo, and Phegley without batting an eye, and given the Sox depth at SS/2B, they could afford to give up one of those guys too. Frankly, if you view Ynoa as a replacement for Bassitt within the system, you can cancel those two out and then it becomes Semein, Ravelo, and Phegley for Samardzija. That's a move you make every time too.

That's a valid point, that we had to send four players to get room for Melky. So, the trade essentially was giving Semien, Ravelo, Bassitt, Phegley, and second and third round draft picks for Shark, Ynoa, Robertson, and Melky (plus a 2016 high draft pick if Shark goes away next year).

[witesoxfan]

'Twas the day after Christmas, with nothing to do,

so I looked up Ben Zobrist (his stats) woo hoo?

 

Jay Jaffe lists Zobrist as the 34th best 2B of all time! I knew he was good but,34th all-time?!

 

Here is a list of the 10 most similar players according to Baseball-reference.com:

 

Aaron Boone—juicer

Dave Hollins—at age 29, he was traded from Philadelphia to Boston for OF Mark Whiten at age at age 30 he was traded from Minnesota to Seattle for a pre-juicing David Ortiz

Corey Koskie—traded from Toronto to Milwaukee for RP Brian Wolfe

Hector Lopez—traded from the KC Athletics to the Yankees as part of the deal that also sent Ralph Terry to the Yankees for Johnny Kucks, Jerry Lumpe, and Tom Sturdivant. The KC Athletics were the minor league feeder for the late fifties, early sixties Yankees. They also plucked Roger Maris in another deal (steal) from KC.

Don Hoak—Hoak was involved in three separate deals that included multiple players, the most famous of whom were Smokey Burgess (former White Sox pinch-hitter), Harvey Haddix (of the 12-inning, spoiled perfect game), and Frank Thomas (the “other” Frank Thomas, not our Hall of Famer, the Big Hurt). Hoak was at 3B when Dick Allen came up with the 1964 Phillies. Hoak played 6 games that year and never played in MLB after that. The way Allen played in ’64, Hoak was lucky to play in those six games!

Scott Spezio—Spezio was never involved in any trades. His Dad, Ed, played 3B for the Sox when Beltin’ Bill Melton was sidelined with back issues in 1972.

Bill Mueller—Mueller was involved in two trades: one for RP Tim Worrell, one for minor league pitcher Jeff Verplancke.

Milton Bradley—now we’re veering away from truly similar players to Ben Zobrist. Bradley was an outfielder who was frequently traded just to change the mix in the clubhouse.

Joe Randa—At age 35, (the point of this exercise), was traded from Cincinnati to the Padres for a couple of pitching prospects, Travis Chick and Justin Germano. Germano had a 9-year career as a spot starter and a middle reliever. Travis Chick never cracked his way into the big leagues. I think that Randa has been a hitting coach in recent days.

Bernard Gilkey—Gilkey was a part of a couple of multi-player deals, one of which include one-time Sox catcher Jorge Fabregas.

 

If the Sox want Ben Zobrist, he shouldn't cost that much - a couple of low-level lottery picks, a decent pitching prospect, or a relief pitcher off the 40-man roster.

 

But buyer beware: Koskie and Bradley were done after their age-33 seasons. Hollins, Spezio, Gilkey, and Randa were part-time players by age 34. Only Hoak, Lopez, and Mueller were still playing more-or-less full time into their mid-thirties. And only Bill Mueller played effectively into his mid-thirties.

 

I don't know that this is the best way to go about valuing a player. A few comparables for Chris Sale at this point are Mark Prior, Jaime Garcia, and Stephen Strasburg, along with a few guys who played before the 50s and a couple of whom were also born in the 19th century. All of those guys would have had highly variable values at each point of their careers.

 

Right now, Ben Zobrist is a guy who plays good defense at a lot of positions, swings a good stick, hits for a bit of power, draws a lot of walks, doesn't strike out a ton, and helps you on the base paths. He's a very good player who does not put up very flashy numbers. All of the teams are aware of this.

 

I will stand by saying that the bare minimum he will cost will be Tim Anderson and Frank Montas, and that's not something the Sox can afford at this point.

 

[Dick Allen]

Zobrist is a really unique player. It took him to age 27 to be above replacement, and since, he has pretty much been a sabermetric superstar. And he is still not all that well known around baseball. Last year there were rumors he was available and a lot of posts on here about him being a decent bench piece.

 

He is 34 in May, on the last year of his contract, so his price tag should be lower than it has been. I would love the White Sox to get him, but not for Anderson +. 2 years ago, I would.

 

If he has another good year, his next contract will be very interesting. Will he get paid like the saber star he is or will he get paid like the middle 30s fairly unknown guys he is? I would guess in the middle. (Out on a huge limb)

Edited December 26, 2014 by Dick Allen

[LDF]

Yeah, but look at what they gave up for Samardzija. I might be the biggest fan of Semien on the site (there are a few of us who will cagefight over that title at some point), but he's ultimately a guy who scouts project to be a league average player, which is valuable but was also from a position of strength for the Sox. The rest is as follows:

 

-a pitcher who projects as a back of the rotation starter or a middle reliever

-a 1B who has yet to show any sort of significant in-game power

-a catcher who was getting crowded out

 

The Sox could legitimately have replacements for all 4 currently in the system (depending on how you view Semien's status). Beyond that, the Sox were going to have to find room on the 40-man roster for guys like Robertson and Cabrera too, and that would have involved them giving up on at least one of these guys anyways - probably Phegley - so to capitalize on some of that value actually works better for the Sox in this instance.

 

I could see all of those guys having careers, and potentially long ones, but there isn't a super talented and/or can't miss prospect in that entire bunch. Tim Anderson, Carlos Rodon, and Frank Montas are super talented and/or can't miss prospects. The Sox can't afford to give up talent like that for a potential one year rental. With the talent the Sox have in house, they could absolutely afford to give up on good but still marginal talents in Bassitt, Ravelo, and Phegley without batting an eye, and given the Sox depth at SS/2B, they could afford to give up one of those guys too. Frankly, if you view Ynoa as a replacement for Bassitt within the system, you can cancel those two out and then it becomes Semein, Ravelo, and Phegley for Samardzija. That's a move you make every time too.

 

man..... a lot of posters are giving great post today.... nice. >> another

great post.

 

but everyone in the world knew the sox was going to need another

SP and the value of that went up, and up.

 

the sox can walk away from Zob and it wouldn't hurt us, the sox will look

for another option. the cost of supply and demand rules this.

[witesoxfan]

Zobrist is a really unique player. It took him to age 27 to be above replacement, and since, he has pretty much been a sabermetric superstar. And he is still not all that well known around baseball. Last year there were rumors he was available and a lot of posts on here about him being a decent bench piece.

 

He is 34 in May, on the last year of his contract, so his price tag should be lower than it has been. I would love the White Sox to get him, but not for Anderson +. 2 years ago, I would.

 

If he has another good year, his next contract will be very interesting. Will he get paid like the saber star he is or will he get paid like the middle 30s fairly unknown guys he is? I would guess in the middle. (Out on a huge limb)

 

I'm very interested to see it too. The first comparable that came to mind was RA Dickey, but I don't foresee Zobrist getting a 5 year deal.

[LDF]

I don't know that this is the best way to go about valuing a player. A few comparables for Chris Sale at this point are Mark Prior, Jaime Garcia, and Stephen Strasburg, along with a few guys who played before the 50s and a couple of whom were also born in the 19th century. All of those guys would have had highly variable values at each point of their careers.

 

Right now, Ben Zobrist is a guy who plays good defense at a lot of positions, swings a good stick, hits for a bit of power, draws a lot of walks, doesn't strike out a ton, and helps you on the base paths. He's a very good player who does not put up very flashy numbers. All of the teams are aware of this.

 

I will stand by saying that the bare minimum he will cost will be Tim Anderson and Frank Montas, and that's not something the Sox can afford at this point.

 

and that is too high of a price to pay. i agree with you.

 

now considering he is a 1 yr rental, Rays are looking to cut payroll, and

needs players. this is my crazy idea.

 

a pkg of

DV + 4 mil, Sanchez, Sunburn

 

for Ben Zob, plus a prospect in the low 16 range.

[witesoxfan]

and that is too high of a price to pay. i agree with you.

 

now considering he is a 1 yr rental, Rays are looking to cut payroll, and

needs players. this is my crazy idea.

 

a pkg of

DV + 4 mil, Sanchez, Sunburn

 

for Ben Zob, plus a prospect in the low 16 range.

 

I was thinking Zobrist had an option for 2016, but still, Tampa wouldn't even counter that offer. Viciedo is virtually valueless, Sanchez is viewed as basically having the upside of a league average player, and Sanburn has such little value that he was traded for 1 month of Adam Dunn (which is not to say that he is untalented, just that he does not have a lot of value). Tampa is not giving you Zobrist plus a prospect for that.

 

He may not cost Tim Anderson plus, as I was under the assumption that he was under contract for the next 2 years, so that's my fault, but it's still going to take a very good prospect - someone like a Tim Anderson, Frank Montas, or Tyler Danish - plus another prospect or two to acquire him. That does not seem like a good venture for the Sox.

 

It just doesn't feel like the right move at this point for the Sox to make.

[LDF]

I was thinking Zobrist had an option for 2016, but still, Tampa wouldn't even counter that offer. Viciedo is virtually valueless, Sanchez is viewed as basically having the upside of a league average player, and Sanburn has such little value that he was traded for 1 month of Adam Dunn (which is not to say that he is untalented, just that he does not have a lot of value). Tampa is not giving you Zobrist plus a prospect for that.

 

He may not cost Tim Anderson plus, as I was under the assumption that he was under contract for the next 2 years, so that's my fault, but it's still going to take a very good prospect - someone like a Tim Anderson, Frank Montas, or Tyler Danish - plus another prospect or two to acquire him. That does not seem like a good venture for the Sox.

 

It just doesn't feel like the right move at this point for the Sox to make.

 

in my crazy boring life, i was reading and thinking. i have been thinking of the Tpa and Wsh

situation with there 1 yr expiring contract players. i know i am obsessed with the expiring

contracts, but what a way to build up draft picks in the 1 round.

 

DV is going to be much better than what they have now, by far, kick in 4 mil for his salary

of offset the playroll, plus he can hit the ball hard to a tune of 20+ hrs.

Tpa will get rid of Ben Z contract of 7.5 mill.

Sanburn is a RP and Tpa needs help in the pitching depd.

so let the front offices discuss the rest. as long the major farm players are not touch.

 

all this for a rental. as of last wk both Wash and Tpa were trying to figure out the rest

of the offseason will go. Wash is another interesting team i been thinking about as well.

[witesoxfan]

in my crazy boring life, i was reading and thinking. i have been thinking of the Tpa and Wsh

situation with there 1 yr expiring contract players. i know i am obsessed with the expiring

contracts, but what a way to build up draft picks in the 1 round.

 

DV is going to be much better than what they have now, by far, kick in 4 mil for his salary

of offset the playroll, plus he can hit the ball hard to a tune of 20+ hrs.

Tpa will get rid of Ben Z contract of 7.5 mill.

Sanburn is a RP and Tpa needs help in the pitching depd.

so let the front offices discuss the rest. as long the major farm players are not touch.

 

all this for a rental. as of last wk both Wash and Tpa were trying to figure out the rest

of the offseason will go. Wash is another interesting team i been thinking about as well.

 

Tampa would be considering the possible draft compensation as well then, and Zobrist could very easily accept it too, which throws a wrench into potential future plans. He could also have a year where he begins breaking down and a qualifying offer makes a lot less sense.

 

On Viciedo, he's a guy that makes sense in Tampa but not at his current price and they aren't going to give up anything of value for him. Sanburn has not thrown a pitch at AA yet and thus has little to no value.

 

To even keep Tampa on the line, I think the bare minimum the Sox would have to offer would be along the lines of Viciedo, Montas, Hawkins, and approximately $4 million for Zobrist, and I think it'd be crazy if a team didn't offer more than that. The Cubs or Mets could offer up a couple of intriguing options and Tampa would have a hard time turning them down. Given that the Sox have stated they're pretty much up against their spending limit right now, I don't think adding $7.5 million to that is going to make things any easier along with giving up a ton of future pieces for a 34 year old rental.