Gentrification

[bigruss]

This article popped up on my news feed, it's one of many articles on gentrification that shine a bad light on it and really to me seems to be racist (in that they don't want white people taking over neighborhoods, which to me is racist within itself).

 

 

I completely understand the frustration of neighborhoods completely changing, as those can be considered home for many families, but really I don't understand the angst over a neighborhood becoming more valuable, safer, and overall in better health. Neighborhoods swing all the time, it's like people would rather see it go into despair instead of allowing new businesses and white people there (and I call that out because it's a core concern in many of these articles).

 

This has especially been heated in Detroit, which again loses me completely. You have a complete s***hole city and you finally get investors to come and build up areas and money starts to flow in. But now since it's mostly white people moving in it's considered bad for the neighborhood.

 

What am I missing here? Clearly from my perspective this isn't a bad thing but others are really against it.

 

[LittleHurt05]

As the neighborhood becomes more valuable, the people who live in it get priced out and are forced to move. Isn't that the #1 concern? It just so happens that usually those being forced out are minorities and those moving in are white.

[StrangeSox]

As the neighborhood becomes more valuable, the people who live in it get priced out and are forced to move. Isn't that the #1 concern? It just so happens that usually those being forced out are minorities and those moving in are white.

Yep that's basically the core of it.

[Jenksismyhero]

White people. The worst. Amiright?

[LDF]

Yep that's basically the core of it.

 

i disagree, it is economic redevelopment. it basically mean

getting land and to redeveloped it. it those who chooses to

sell, they sell. it doesn't mean who buys into those are just

white, no, there are yuppies mixed. those who can afford to

buy there.

[StrangeSox]

I was saying that's the core of the problem people have with it--that it pushes poorer people out of the neighborhoods. Increasing property values don't help renters.

[bmags]

If you are really interested in it, there has been more paper spent on gentrification than World War Two, and basically:

-it's a net positive for the neighborhood

-those it negatively affects are the poorest and most vulnerable

- there are ways to mitigate the negative affects

- those ways are often not utilized, as those who move in often start performing nimby regulations

- the best way to help these neighborhoods are often counterintuitive, building of any kind is preferable to blocking new development, which is equivalent of putting heads in sand

- there is a large painful wound of 60s era urban renewal which was really painful and poorly done that looms over all of this

[gatnom]

Playing devil's advocate here... If somebody made a list online of "11 signs your neighborhood is going downhill", and "black people will show up" was reason number 11, there would certainly be some outcry to this, yes? Personally, I don't care if they don't like the white people who are pushing them out of their neighborhood, but it doesn't seem like a very PC way to describe things.

 

 

[bmags]

Do you care because you think that's wrong or because you wish you could identify black people as a problem without consequence.

[StrangeSox]

FWIW that was literally what was done to black people throughout much of the 20th century, and it was reason #1, not reason #11. It's basically what redlining and white flight were all about. So given that historical context, it'd be more offensive if said about black people in 2014 because they actually suffered for it for generations. White people aren't and weren't actually being redlined.

[bmags]

FWIW that was literally what was done to black people throughout much of the 20th century, and it was reason #1, not reason #11. It's basically what redlining and white flight were all about. So given that historical context, it'd be more offensive if said about black people in 2014 because they actually suffered for it for generations. White people aren't and weren't actually being redlined.

 

and of course, a major difference is that there is nothing structural stopping any white person from moving into that neighborhood. Nobody is going to burn their house down in defiance. Nobody is going to riot because they are moving.

 

But, you know, somebody put up a sign. And that's what we should spend our energy on.

 

Again, there are a lot of bogeymen with gentrification, but there is a reason those fears exist. Gentrification when done right can be very beneficial to all, but it's rarely done right. And one of the biggest things you see is money come in, and prevent a lot of the measures that could help because they just bought a house there and deserve to have the same quaint neighborhood that will never change.

[gatnom]

Do you care because you think that's wrong or because you wish you could identify black people as a problem without consequence.

 

I have no problem with black people. I just thought it's not right to hold them to different standards because of the respective colors of our skin. If that makes me somebody trying to "identify black people as a problem without consequence," so be it.

 

 

 

 

[bmags]

Okay so "don't actually care" was your answer.

[gatnom]

Okay so "don't actually care" was your answer.

 

You got me there. But, there definitely is a double standard for posting things based on skin color, and I think we should hold everybody to the same standard.

 

 

[bmags]

You got me there. But, there definitely is a double standard for posting things based on skin color, and I think we should hold everybody to the same standard.

 

It is wrong for whoever specific people put that on a flyer to fearmonger, but if you want to know why there is no uproar, it's because any white person that wants to move in that area will be able to move in that area without added difficulty.

[RockRaines]

If you get forced out of your neighborhood because it's not a s***hole I don't feel sorry for you. You were probably the problem in the first place.

[gatnom]

It is wrong for whoever specific people put that on a flyer to fearmonger, but if you want to know why there is no uproar, it's because any white person that wants to move in that area will be able to move in that area without added difficulty.

 

You are correct again. I know a lot of people that my parents live near that would freak out the second a black person moves in, and that is completely wrong.

 

 

[bmags]

If you get forced out of your neighborhood because it's not a s***hole I don't feel sorry for you. You were probably the problem in the first place.

 

If it wasn't a s***hole why were they a problem?

[Jenksismyhero]

If it wasn't a s***hole why were they a problem?

 

If it is a s*** hole why do they care that they're being moved out?

 

edit: i'm interested to re-visit the Cabrini Green Re-Development in another 10 or 15 years. See how the CHA residents are assimilating into those neighborhoods. Are their lives any better? Or do they just feel like victims stuck in a different world (albeit a damn nice one). I'll still never forget the lady I met with over there who used to live in the projects in a 10 x 10 cinder block room covered in chain link fence, moved into a beautiful and brand new 2 bed, 2 bath condo, and complained that she now had to pay $50 towards her electric bill.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[bmags]

If it is a s*** hole why do they care that they're being moved out?

 

Is there a purpose to this question?

[StrangeSox]

If it is a s*** hole why do they care that they're being moved out?

 

It's still their community and where they live and who they know, and now they're just being pushed somewhere else that's probably just as bad if not worse than their previous neighborhood.

 

Like bmags said, there are ways of doing gentrification that don't result in displacing most of the existing residences and replacing them with a bunch of yuppies, but that's usually how it goes.

[LDF]

I was saying that's the core of the problem people have with it--that it pushes poorer people out of the neighborhoods. Increasing property values don't help renters.

 

no one is pushing them out. if they sell, they are selling at a profit.

[StrangeSox]

no one is pushing them out. if they sell, they are selling at a profit.

People who are renting don't have anything to sell. If the neighborhood I'm renting in suddenly becomes a lot more desirable, my rent's going to go up and I'm going to be forced to move.

 

edit: it can also happen with ballooning property taxes forcing owners out, but at least they aren't 100% SOL like renters.

Edited December 29, 2014 by StrangeSox

[LDF]

Playing devil's advocate here... If somebody made a list online of "11 signs your neighborhood is going downhill", and "black people will show up" was reason number 11, there would certainly be some outcry to this, yes? Personally, I don't care if they don't like the white people who are pushing them out of their neighborhood, but it doesn't seem like a very PC way to describe things.

 

again i disagree. reason #1 and #11 will be the same, gangs.

 

look in the newspaper, how many shootings are going on every weekend.

[RockRaines]

If it wasn't a s***hole why were they a problem?

When they lived there it was a s***hole and now it's not and they are getting moved out. Read my post again.