2015 Recruiting thread

[GGajewski18]

Who? His offers are just Nebraska, Maryland, and Xavier from what I see. Shouldn't have too tough a time vs those guys.

 

Not a bad offer list considering he originally committed to Tulane. All respectable teams.

 

Supposedly he is known more for his rebounding and defending, but his shot looks pretty good, and he has good handles for a 2/3.

[nitetrain8601]

This is so false, do you even follow recruiting?

 

Yeah I do. Or please cite to me how they beat out Kansas for Cliff Alexander. Or how they beat out other teams for Jalen Brunson, Xavier Simpson, Carlton Bragg, Elijah Thomas and Jawun Evans. Don't worry, I'll wait.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Yeah I do. Or please cite to me how they beat out Kansas for Cliff Alexander. Or how they beat out other teams for Jalen Brunson, Xavier Simpson, Carlton Bragg, Elijah Thomas and Jawun Evans. Don't worry, I'll wait.

I guess Im not seeing the correlation between a tulane recruit and those kids.

 

Illinois is about a safe as bet as they come for a top 15ish class. They are recruiting fine.

[bigruss]

Yeah I do. Or please cite to me how they beat out Kansas for Cliff Alexander. Or how they beat out other teams for Jalen Brunson, Xavier Simpson, Carlton Bragg, Elijah Thomas and Jawun Evans. Don't worry, I'll wait.

LOL, you fail at following the recruiting game. EVERY school misses out on recruits, and they'll miss more than they hit. Illinois has gone after some big names for sure, and they have missed on most of them (just like how many other big schools missed on them).

 

But at the same time, they landed the following in the past few years and I've listed some of their best offers:

Thorne - Offers from Kentucky and Kansas

JCL - Offers from UM, MSU, Arizona, OSU

Jordan - Offers from IU and Wisky

DJW - Offers from Florida, Georgetown

Black - Baylor, UCONN, IU, Kansas, UCLA

 

 

Yup, Illinois doesn't land anyone who has big offers.

 

Illinois/Groce have been doing a good job recruiting minus the black hole at the PG position (and now have a kid who had offers from USC, Purdue, Memphis and should move up the rankings) in the fold for 2016. They have been far from perfect but no one is, not even Calipari (though he's gotten damn close).

 

If you want to hate on the performance of the team then go ahead, plenty to hate about, but Illinois has been recruiting pretty damn well considering their season performances.

[RockRaines]

Has Illinois had a top ten class in the last 5 years or so?

[bigruss]

Has Illinois had a top ten class in the last 5 years or so?

From 247:

2015 - 17th (right ahead of MSU, but this also includes Paul and he's gone already)

2014 - 47th (only 2 players, Finke was not ranked high at all)

2013 - 21st (Groce's first year)

2012 - N/A (no players)

2011 - 17th (almost all busts, Abrams and Egwu were the only contributors)

2010 - 11th (Jereme Richmond, Meyers Leonard, Crandall Head. Only Leonard was good and even then he left before he could be a stud)

 

So nope, no top 10 according to 247 though 2010 was close.

[Jenksismyhero]

On 247 they were:

 

2010 - 11th

2011 - 17th

2012 - no commits

2013 - 21st

2014- 47th (losing Snyder on signing day was tough)

2015- 17th

 

 

edit: bah!!! waste of 5 minutes

 

edit 2: Given the state of the program, I think Groce has done a decent job. It would be great if he could land an actual blue chipper to push them over the top and get back into contention. This .500, bubble s*** is getting old. I think he's now safe this season if they miss the NCAAs given the injuries. I would still can him if I were in charge. Let someone else take over while there's still some talent on the roster (and senior talent too with Nunn/Hill). Don't let it become a full on rebuild like Weber to Groce.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Jenksismybitch

[RockRaines]

From 247:

2015 - 17th (right ahead of MSU, but this also includes Paul and he's gone already)

2014 - 47th (only 2 players, Finke was not ranked high at all)

2013 - 21st (Groce's first year)

2012 - N/A (no players)

2011 - 17th (almost all busts, Abrams and Egwu were the only contributors)

2010 - 11th (Jereme Richmond, Meyers Leonard, Crandall Head. Only Leonard was good and even then he left before he could be a stud)

 

So nope, no top 10 according to 247 though 2010 was close.

I assume most fans expect higher quality classes.

[nitetrain8601]

I assume most fans expect higher quality classes.

 

I do. But I guess some people are happy beating out USC on recruits.

 

[bigruss]

I do. But I guess some people are happy beating out USC on recruits.

 

Keep trolling.

[bigruss]

I assume most fans expect higher quality classes.

Fans want the big hits, because they are sexy. Honestly, our rankings have been good enough to win with, but we aren't winning. If we are winning more then we won't care as much when we miss out on the 5 stars going to Duke/KU/UK, that's just the game today. Plus, we win more we'll eventually get a few of those guys.

[nitetrain8601]

Fans want the big hits, because they are sexy. Honestly, our rankings have been good enough to win with, but we aren't winning. If we are winning more then we won't care as much when we miss out on the 5 stars going to Duke/KU/UK, that's just the game today. Plus, we win more we'll eventually get a few of those guys.

 

The thing is, Illinois is not winning. Groce's main thing was supposed to be recruiting. His coaching was always just ok. He's done about as well as everyone expected coaching wise, but he couldn't hold up his end in recruiting. If they wanted recruiting classes like they have now, they were better off with Weber because he's a better X's and O's coach.

[bigruss]

The thing is, Illinois is not winning. Groce's main thing was supposed to be recruiting. His coaching was always just ok. He's done about as well as everyone expected coaching wise, but he couldn't hold up his end in recruiting. If they wanted recruiting classes like they have now, they were better off with Weber because he's a better X's and O's coach.

Weber's "top" recruiting classes also stunk, like really stunk. His best recruiting was the underrated guys that fit his system, but when he went after rankings he got guys that were either terrible or didn't fit in.

 

Let's look at his 2010 and 2011 classes, some of his best ranked ones:

2011 - 17th Abrams, Egwu, Henry, Shaw, Ibby, Langford. He got 2 good players out of that. Henry was good but unfortunately left the program to play the 3 at Depaul (only to end up playing the 4 and 5 there as well). Shaw, Ibby and Langford were all non-D1 major program caliber players. Shaw just announced he's hanging it up at Bradley, Ibby parely plays at SIU, Langford went to a DII school I believe.

2010 - 11th Jereme Richmond, Meyers Leonard, Crandall Head. Only Leonard was good and even then he left before he could be a stud.

 

Weber was not coaching well and was not identifying good talent for the program when he got canned. He got fired for good reason, wanting to go back to him is meatheadness.

 

Groce has not been spectacular, I don't think anyone here has said that in about a year or two now.

 

 

[illinilaw08]

Weber's "top" recruiting classes also stunk, like really stunk. His best recruiting was the underrated guys that fit his system, but when he went after rankings he got guys that were either terrible or didn't fit in.

 

Let's look at his 2010 and 2011 classes, some of his best ranked ones:

2011 - 17th Abrams, Egwu, Henry, Shaw, Ibby, Langford. He got 2 good players out of that. Henry was good but unfortunately left the program to play the 3 at Depaul (only to end up playing the 4 and 5 there as well). Shaw, Ibby and Langford were all non-D1 major program caliber players. Shaw just announced he's hanging it up at Bradley, Ibby parely plays at SIU, Langford went to a DII school I believe.

2010 - 11th Jereme Richmond, Meyers Leonard, Crandall Head. Only Leonard was good and even then he left before he could be a stud.

 

Weber was not coaching well and was not identifying good talent for the program when he got canned. He got fired for good reason, wanting to go back to him is meatheadness.

 

Groce has not been spectacular, I don't think anyone here has said that in about a year or two now.

 

Yep.

 

Also of note, people tend to overstate past Illinois recruiting success. Jimmy Collins was the only Illinois recruiter to ever really pull top talent out of Chicago. Other than that period in the 80s (pre-probation), and the brief Self era, Illinois basketball has been successful when the talent downstate has been strong. Kruger didn't need Chicago because three straight Mr. Basketballs were south of I-80. The point here is that Illinois has never recruited well nationally, and has never consistently landed the best kids from Chicago. The expectation on Groce should be that he recruits at a high level regionally. And Groce has done that.

 

Leron Black and JCL are recruits Illinois doesn't have a shot with historically. Memphis and Indiana are not traditional recruiting areas for the Illini. Groce deserves more credit than he gets for landing those guys. The other thing Groce doesn't get credit for is getting in very late in game on Kendrick Nunn. Webber had 0 shot at landing Nunn. Groce was able to get Nunn and establish something of a Simeon pipeline...

 

The biggest indictment on Groce is his inability to land a PG. He mis-evaluated Ulis. It happens. Self misevaluated Andre Iguodala. No one is infallible. And then the Quentin Snider 11th hour de-commit compounded the mistake on Ulis.

 

Finally, I think people undersell the rebuild Groce had to do. With an empty '10 class (none of those guys were around for Groce's first year), a largely empty '11 class (4 of the 6 transferred after Groce's first year and Henry was the only one who could play), and the '12 class was empty. Groce did well with the remains of the '09 class in year 1. Did well to almost make the tournament with a completely revamped roster in Year 2, and had bad luck in Year 3 (Cosby not working out, the Rice injury, the Abrams injury, the obvious chemistry issues when Rice returned). Year 4 is setting up as another down year because of injuries.

 

I'm optimistic about the '17 class. Particularly because a lot of the talent is south of I-80. If Groce doesn't land a strong class there, it's time to worry about whether he can stick at Illinois.

[bigruss]

If Groce can't land a good 2017 class and/or can't make the tourney this year then he's officially on the hotseat and absolutely needs to do something in the 2016-17 season. He has to keep the needle pointing up for Illinois basketball. He knows that, he knows he's lost momentum, he's made mistakes, but there's plenty of opportunity out there to right the boat (namely the uber talented 2017 Illinois HS class).

 

We'll wrap up this class with either a transfer or someone like Nicholls, then full on pressure on the 2017 class. Get someone like Goodwin to jump early and start recruiting others.

[Jenksismyhero]

Yep.

 

Also of note, people tend to overstate past Illinois recruiting success. Jimmy Collins was the only Illinois recruiter to ever really pull top talent out of Chicago. Other than that period in the 80s (pre-probation), and the brief Self era, Illinois basketball has been successful when the talent downstate has been strong. Kruger didn't need Chicago because three straight Mr. Basketballs were south of I-80. The point here is that Illinois has never recruited well nationally, and has never consistently landed the best kids from Chicago. The expectation on Groce should be that he recruits at a high level regionally. And Groce has done that.

 

Leron Black and JCL are recruits Illinois doesn't have a shot with historically. Memphis and Indiana are not traditional recruiting areas for the Illini. Groce deserves more credit than he gets for landing those guys. The other thing Groce doesn't get credit for is getting in very late in game on Kendrick Nunn. Webber had 0 shot at landing Nunn. Groce was able to get Nunn and establish something of a Simeon pipeline...

 

The biggest indictment on Groce is his inability to land a PG. He mis-evaluated Ulis. It happens. Self misevaluated Andre Iguodala. No one is infallible. And then the Quentin Snider 11th hour de-commit compounded the mistake on Ulis.

 

Finally, I think people undersell the rebuild Groce had to do. With an empty '10 class (none of those guys were around for Groce's first year), a largely empty '11 class (4 of the 6 transferred after Groce's first year and Henry was the only one who could play), and the '12 class was empty. Groce did well with the remains of the '09 class in year 1. Did well to almost make the tournament with a completely revamped roster in Year 2, and had bad luck in Year 3 (Cosby not working out, the Rice injury, the Abrams injury, the obvious chemistry issues when Rice returned). Year 4 is setting up as another down year because of injuries.

 

I'm optimistic about the '17 class. Particularly because a lot of the talent is south of I-80. If Groce doesn't land a strong class there, it's time to worry about whether he can stick at Illinois.

 

While I agree with you here, this sounds an awful lot like the excuses that were made for Weber the last 5 seasons. Oh well he missed on this guy, oh well this guy never panned out, oh well he had problems with this guy, etc.

[illinilaw08]

While I agree with you here, this sounds an awful lot like the excuses that were made for Weber the last 5 seasons. Oh well he missed on this guy, oh well this guy never panned out, oh well he had problems with this guy, etc.

 

I think there's a difference between excuses and ensuring that the proper context surrounds a discussion.

 

1) People are holding Groce to an historically unrealistic standard regarding recruiting (why doesn't he land 5 star recruits!!). Groce needs to fix the point guard situation, and hopefully Lucas is that guy. But other than point guard, recruiting has been good.

 

2) It's important to remember that Webber and Groce inherited very different programs. Webber inherited a program loaded with experienced talent (the core of the '05 team all played a ton in Self's first year) that would ultimately be the '05 team. Despite that, Webber was not able to recruit at an acceptable level until '09. By contrast, Groce inherited a program coming off a 6-12 B1G season that lost its lottery pick center.

 

Without that context, I don't know how you can adequately evaluate Groce as a coach right now. Webber had some bad luck (Jamar Smith, the Carlwell crash, Eric Gordon), but he also had a large enough sample size that we knew his strengths and weaknesses. Groce has 3 full years in. One with Webber's holdovers where he overachieved, one with a gutted roster (the massive outflow of transfers) that was about at expectations (bubble team that just missed the tournament), and one that fell short of expectations, partially due to factors outside Groce's control (read, injuries). I don't see how you can discuss Groce without providing context to the events during his tenure here. And that's where I acknowledge that this is a huge season for Groce. The '17 class is loaded and deep in Illinois generally, and south of I-80 specifically. As bigruss said, if Groce doesn't win this year and has a lackluster '17 recruiting class, the heat should be on.

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

I think there's a difference between excuses and ensuring that the proper context surrounds a discussion.

1) People are holding Groce to an historically unrealistic standard regarding recruiting (why doesn't he land 5 star recruits!!). Groce needs to fix the point guard situation, and hopefully Lucas is that guy. But other than point guard, recruiting has been good.

 

2) It's important to remember that Webber and Groce inherited very different programs. Webber inherited a program loaded with experienced talent (the core of the '05 team all played a ton in Self's first year) that would ultimately be the '05 team. Despite that, Webber was not able to recruit at an acceptable level until '09. By contrast, Groce inherited a program coming off a 6-12 B1G season that lost its lottery pick center.

 

Without that context, I don't know how you can adequately evaluate Groce as a coach right now. Webber had some bad luck (Jamar Smith, the Carlwell crash, Eric Gordon), but he also had a large enough sample size that we knew his strengths and weaknesses. Groce has 3 full years in. One with Webber's holdovers where he overachieved, one with a gutted roster (the massive outflow of transfers) that was about at expectations (bubble team that just missed the tournament), and one that fell short of expectations, partially due to factors outside Groce's control (read, injuries). I don't see how you can discuss Groce without providing context to the events during his tenure here. And that's where I acknowledge that this is a huge season for Groce. The '17 class is loaded and deep in Illinois generally, and south of I-80 specifically. As bigruss said, if Groce doesn't win this year and has a lackluster '17 recruiting class, the heat should be on.

 

As an outsider, I totally agree. Unless something drastic were to happen, such as a much dirtier coach being hired, Illinois isn't going to bring in the ridiculous classes that some schools have. They don't have the name, the tradition, or the coach to be able to do that. They are NOT a top tier school, and their recruiting will reflect that.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Groce needs to go period if we miss the tournament this year. We fire Weber for missing the tournament 3 times in 9 years (right move) then we have to fire Groce for missing 3 straight years too. You can recruit a top 25 class to Illinois with your eyes closed.

[bigruss]

Groce needs to go period if we miss the tournament this year. We fire Weber for missing the tournament 3 times in 9 years (right move) then we have to fire Groce for missing 3 straight years too. You can recruit a top 25 class to Illinois with your eyes closed.

If he's landing a top 10 class in 2017 then I'm keeping him. Of course, he may not get to that stage if the team crashes and burns this year. The injuries to start the year are definitely not encouraging as this was already a bubble team.

[CanOfCorn]

Groce needs to go period if we miss the tournament this year. We fire Weber for missing the tournament 3 times in 9 years (right move) then we have to fire Groce for missing 3 straight years too. You can recruit a top 25 class to Illinois with your eyes closed.

 

Not if you keep firing coaches that aren't aggregiously horrible (I'm looking at you Tim Beckman). Recruits want the sense of stability, even if they aren't staying, they don't want to commit and then find out their coach is going to be fired. The best thing for Illinois would be to find a coach that wants to stay long-term, a la Lou Henson and can win, a la Lou Henson. Probably won't happen in todays NCAA, but that would be best for Illinois...and really for any school not in that top echelon.

[Jenksismyhero]

I think there's a difference between excuses and ensuring that the proper context surrounds a discussion.

 

1) People are holding Groce to an historically unrealistic standard regarding recruiting (why doesn't he land 5 star recruits!!). Groce needs to fix the point guard situation, and hopefully Lucas is that guy. But other than point guard, recruiting has been good.

 

2) It's important to remember that Webber and Groce inherited very different programs. Webber inherited a program loaded with experienced talent (the core of the '05 team all played a ton in Self's first year) that would ultimately be the '05 team. Despite that, Webber was not able to recruit at an acceptable level until '09. By contrast, Groce inherited a program coming off a 6-12 B1G season that lost its lottery pick center.

 

Without that context, I don't know how you can adequately evaluate Groce as a coach right now. Webber had some bad luck (Jamar Smith, the Carlwell crash, Eric Gordon), but he also had a large enough sample size that we knew his strengths and weaknesses. Groce has 3 full years in. One with Webber's holdovers where he overachieved, one with a gutted roster (the massive outflow of transfers) that was about at expectations (bubble team that just missed the tournament), and one that fell short of expectations, partially due to factors outside Groce's control (read, injuries). I don't see how you can discuss Groce without providing context to the events during his tenure here. And that's where I acknowledge that this is a huge season for Groce. The '17 class is loaded and deep in Illinois generally, and south of I-80 specifically. As bigruss said, if Groce doesn't win this year and has a lackluster '17 recruiting class, the heat should be on.

 

I agree with you. As to point 1, people want the one big recruit to put them over the edge. That hasn't happened yet. And yes, that's happened the last 25 years or so at Illinois. Were they always blue chip recruits? No, but they were very, very good, program leading recruits. Deon Thomas, Kiwane Garris, Frank Thomas, Brian Cook, Sergio McClain, Dee Brown, etc. (notice the PG theme there). That hasn't happened yet.

 

[illinilaw08]

I agree with you. As to point 1, people want the one big recruit to put them over the edge. That hasn't happened yet. And yes, that's happened the last 25 years or so at Illinois. Were they always blue chip recruits? No, but they were very, very good, program leading recruits. Deon Thomas, Kiwane Garris, Frank Thomas, Brian Cook, Sergio McClain, Dee Brown, etc. (notice the PG theme there). That hasn't happened yet.

 

But again, let's put context around those recruits:

 

1) Deon Thomas - during the Henson and Jimmy Collins era and the recruitment that got Illinois placed on probation.

 

2) Garris - I don't remember Garris being highly ranked. Also happened during the Henson and Collins era. I'm not disputing that Henson and Collins recruited well in Chicago.

 

3) Frank Williams - Once Sergio and Griffin committed to Illinois (and Sergio, while the guy that got Griffin and Williams to follow was the lightest recruited of that group), the Williams recruitment was over. Also a downstate recruitment (just like Sergio).

 

4) Cook was from Lincoln. He was never going anywhere other than Illinois.

 

5) Dee was a big pickup. But Sean Dockery was more heavily recruited in state that year (ending up at Duke). If I remember right, Michigan State was the primary competition for Dee. Deron then fell into Self's lap when UNC and Georgia Tech landed Felton and Jack respectively.

 

Yes, Groce needs to recruit good players. His first class will be Juniors this year. There are, conservatively, at least four Groce recruits that could be All Big Ten players during their careers here (Hill, Nunn, JCL and Black) based on pedigree or on court production to date. At least two of those guys historically don't end up at Illinois.

 

The big problem at Illinois is that they haven't been putting guys in the NBA since the '05 team left. Deron (best known as a coach killing malcontent at the moment) and Leonard (getting his first chance to start!). But you can't blame Groce for not putting players into the NBA when his first class is just now Juniors...

[Brian]

Zach Norvell to Gonzaga.

 

No clue why Illinois didn't try harder for him. He's better than DJ Williams.

[gatnom]

Zach Norvell to Gonzaga.

 

No clue why Illinois didn't try harder for him. He's better than DJ Williams.

 

Timing, it seems. They are looking for more defense at the moment.