Balta1701 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 09:54 PM) Bryant is not a third basemen. Hurts his value when he has to go to left eventually. His OPS has dipped under 800 now. Granted he's a rookie, but a lot more expectations than what he has done. Sorting on defense for 3b in Fangraphs, he's 9th out of 21 qualified 3b in defensive value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 09:04 PM) Sorting on defense for 3b in Fangraphs, he's 9th out of 21 qualified 3b in defensive value. His DRS is -3 though, which is 115th out of 138 players who have played at 3b this season. This feels like the opposite case of Adam Eaton last year, who ranked well by DRS but poorly by UZR. http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/...-fielding.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 10:17 PM) His DRS is -3 though, which is 115th out of 138 players who have played at 3b this season. This feels like the opposite case of Adam Eaton last year, who ranked well by DRS but poorly by UZR. http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/...-fielding.shtml That's a completely ridiculous way of looking at it because it looks like 75 of those players have played fewer than 10 games there and even if they're terrible they wouldn't have a DRS more than +3 or lower than -3 so they're all hanging around zero. The way it looks to me there's 15-20 part or full time 3b who are measurably worse than him based on DRS also. So he's certainly not the best 3b in the league and no one would say so...but for a 23 year old in his first season, there's nothing there saying "he must be moved from this position soon." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I have no idea how Bryant's output this season results in a WAR of 3.5 especially when you consider that Josh Donaldson is "only" at 5.7. Their offensive numbers aren't even close and Donaldson is the superior defender as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 09:44 PM) I have no idea how Bryant's output this season results in a WAR of 3.5 especially when you consider that Josh Donaldson is "only" at 5.7. Their offensive numbers aren't even close and Donaldson is the superior defender as well. That's a 2.2 win difference. Donaldson has around 50 more plate appearances, which is about 1/12 of a full season (600 PA). So a person who can output 2.2 WAR in those 50 PAs can theoretically have around 26 WAR a season. In other words, it's a big difference for only 50 PAs. Edited August 6, 2015 by chw42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 09:23 PM) That's a completely ridiculous way of looking at it because it looks like 75 of those players have played fewer than 10 games there and even if they're terrible they wouldn't have a DRS more than +3 or lower than -3 so they're all hanging around zero. The way it looks to me there's 15-20 part or full time 3b who are measurably worse than him based on DRS also. So he's certainly not the best 3b in the league and no one would say so...but for a 23 year old in his first season, there's nothing there saying "he must be moved from this position soon." You're right, it's ridiculous to compare him to guys who don't get a lot of time at 3b, though Saladino is already 6th in DRS among all third basemen (+6 DRS) at only 21 games played there, so it is possible to rack up big values in a short amount of time. But point taken nonetheless, I agree that he hasn't shown anything to warrant moving him from third base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 09:44 PM) I have no idea how Bryant's output this season results in a WAR of 3.5 especially when you consider that Josh Donaldson is "only" at 5.7. Their offensive numbers aren't even close and Donaldson is the superior defender as well. First of all a 2.2 WAR difference is huge. Secondly, even with Bryant's offense going into the toilet the last 4-6 weeks he's still the 5th best offensive 3B in the game overall this season, and he's getting a ton of value from his baserunning. Fangraphs ranks him as the second most valuable baserunner in baseball this year behind Billy Hamilton. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...0&sort=18,d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 11:04 PM) First of all a 2.2 WAR difference is huge. Secondly, even with Bryant's offense going into the toilet the last 4-6 weeks he's still the 5th best offensive 3B in the game overall this season, and he's getting a ton of value from his baserunning. Fangraphs ranks him as the second most valuable baserunner in baseball this year behind Billy Hamilton. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...0&sort=18,d I don't know if I buy that. He might be good, but almost as good as Billy Hamilton? Edited August 6, 2015 by chw42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 11:25 PM) I don't know if I buy that. He might be good, but almost as good as Billy Hamilton? Fangraphs agrees with you. Bryant might be 2nd, but he's still nowhere close to Hamilton, who's almost twice as valuable as Bryant on the basepaths. Hamilton is just that much better than everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 11:39 PM) Fangraphs agrees with you. Bryant might be 2nd, but he's still nowhere close to Hamilton, who's almost twice as valuable as Bryant on the basepaths. Hamilton is just that much better than everyone else. Come on, 2nd in baseball? That's a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 11:04 PM) First of all a 2.2 WAR difference is huge. Secondly, even with Bryant's offense going into the toilet the last 4-6 weeks he's still the 5th best offensive 3B in the game overall this season, and he's getting a ton of value from his baserunning. Fangraphs ranks him as the second most valuable baserunner in baseball this year behind Billy Hamilton. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...0&sort=18,d I'm saying it should be an even bigger difference. Bryant has roughly 11% less PAs than Donaldson so projected out with the same number of PAs Bryant would be at 3.9 and only 1.8 differential. Still size able but not near what it should be IMO. Bryant with a higher WAR than arenado? How is that even possible? Arenado is a far superior hitter and defender so I guess Bryant's Rickey Henderson like baserunning abilities make up for the difference? Ha. It's almost like fangraphs has bought into the hype and found a way to skew his numbers to match the hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 06:27 AM) Come on, 2nd in baseball? That's a joke DON'T QUESTION FANGRAPHS OR THE SECRET SERVICE WILL COME KNOCKIN!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (Brian @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 06:47 AM) DON'T QUESTION FANGRAPHS OR THE SECRET SERVICE WILL COME KNOCKIN!!! They do a great job but many people blindly swear to the numbers without taking a step back to see if some of the numbers even make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 As much as I enjoy watching the Royals, Lorenzo Cain hasn't been one of the five best players in baseball this season. There's another example that fits with someone like Heyward/dWAR and projecting $120-160 million contract offers for him. Just seems nuts. And yes, we are all aware he's only 26-27. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 As much as I enjoy watching the Royals, Lorenzo Cain hasn't been one of the five best players in baseball this season. There's another example that fits with someone like Heyward/dWAR and projecting $120-160 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 09:02 AM) As much as I enjoy watching the Royals, Lorenzo Cain hasn't been one of the five best players in baseball this season. There's another example that fits with someone like Heyward/dWAR and projecting $120-160 So Cain isnt one of the top 5 players, yet Moore is one of the top 5 GMs? And, what does Cain have to do with the Cubs? You are a strange one, Caulfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 5, 2015 -> 07:49 PM) Seems like they face Locke every month. Cubs have been incredible at coming back since the ASB. The Cubs have missed a ton of "aces" this year. No Cole this series, no MadBum next series and they only faced Cueto once this season. Mike Leake scratched tomorrow, Vogelsong to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 7, 2015 -> 12:05 AM) Mike Leake scratched tomorrow, Vogelsong to start. but of course. Panik also went on the DL this week. Probably the most underrated player in baseball, as he's 15th in fWAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 06:08 PM) but of course. Panik also went on the DL this week. Probably the most underrated player in baseball, as he's 15th in fWAR Giants have 4 of the top 19 position players in fWAR, all play the infield. ( counting Posey of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 7, 2015 -> 01:40 AM) Giants have 4 of the top 19 position players in fWAR, all play the infield. ( counting Posey of course) And given their impossible schedule in August, it's going to be hard for them to make the postseason. Cubs and Nationals have an easier path it seems for 2nd wild card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 The Cubs struck gold with Schwarber, jeez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 07:56 PM) The Cubs struck gold with Schwarber, jeez Teams have doubted him his whole life. His home state school didn't even offer him a scholly. He appears to be a great hitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 6, 2015 -> 07:40 PM) Giants have 4 of the top 19 position players in fWAR, all play the infield. ( counting Posey of course) grantland did a nice piece a while ago about their core here they've got 57M coming off the books going into next year so it'll be intresting to see where all that money gets alocated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Maddon says Castro not just getting a day off today. This is the Cubs lineup. Another bust of a prospect having his Cubs career coming to an end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 QUOTE (Brian @ Aug 7, 2015 -> 06:03 PM) Maddon says Castro not just getting a day off today. This is the Cubs lineup. Another bust of a prospect having his Cubs career coming to an end. Unfortunately this move makes them better, assuming Coghlan isn't Micah Johnson-esque defensively at 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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