Jenksismyhero Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 21, 2015 -> 12:53 PM) Why is it a problem? People shouldnt have to work for what they get? If you want luxuries and opportunities in life you have to work for them. Too many people expect to do the minimum and get handouts, THATS the problem. Agreed. If Rock worked 2 jobs making 23k for his life, adding in a family, then it's a problem. If it was a stepping stone to something bigger and better, why's that a problem? Everyone I know started working a s*** job in high school or even a s*** job in their careers. It works out for the vast, vast majority of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2015 -> 12:54 PM) Should health care coverage be a handout? If you get sick can you just work harder to get over that? Should the ability for kids to go to college be a handout? Health care has been a handout for a long time, especially for women and children and the poor we're talking about. Preferably even in situations where they're not already covered, family members would take care of their family. The nanny state shouldn't be expected to. College is available to anyone. Take out a loan. Welcome to the world everyone else has been living in for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 21, 2015 -> 01:57 PM) Health care has been a handout for a long time, especially for women and children and the poor we're talking about. Preferably even in situations where they're not already covered, family members would take care of their family. The nanny state shouldn't be expected to. College is available to anyone. Take out a loan. Welcome to the world everyone else has been living in for decades. The good news is you can afford to pay that back on a minimum wage salary, right? And I'm sure you have no problems with your tax dollars going to pay for the health care among the poor right? That's not a cost you'd prefer to not pay as a taxpayer? Because I'd much rather McDonalds pay for that than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2015 -> 12:49 PM) Then we need to start generating some other jobs, because >1/2 of the people who are doing those jobs are over 25. More than 1/2 of fast food front line workers are on public assistance and being paid for in part by the taxpayers, either through medicaid and CHIP for health care, food stamps, TANF, or the Earned Income Tax Credit. All programs being abused/over used because morons think working at a McDonalds with kids is a good decision. And instead of shooting for something a little higher, they shoot for a minimal raise in the same job. I totally agree there's a catch 22 here. McDonald's gets to pass the buck off to the taxpayers under the current system. I'd be totally happy getting rid of all of these incentives for people making some dumb choices in life. Having those systems and programs in place for people who need it is absolutely a good thing. But they're designed to be short term assistance programs not long-term entitlements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2015 -> 01:01 PM) The good news is you can afford to pay that back on a minimum wage salary, right? And I'm sure you have no problems with your tax dollars going to pay for the health care among the poor right? That's not a cost you'd prefer to not pay as a taxpayer? Because I'd much rather McDonalds pay for that than me. Well, under gov't loan programs that have existed for decades, you pay what you can. What's wrong with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2015 -> 12:54 PM) Should health care coverage be a handout? If you get sick can you just work harder to get over that? Should the ability for kids to go to college be a handout? I worked my way into and through college. So no. College isn't a right IMO. Either are luxury items. Too many people are of a different mindset. Edited May 21, 2015 by RockRaines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 21, 2015 -> 01:08 PM) I worked my way into and through college. So no. But Rock, in a socialist utopia you could have gone to school for free! And then you could have chosen your profession and worked it for the same wage as everyone else! And then we'd all get to enjoy cell phones and tv's and nice cars. Don't you see?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 21, 2015 -> 01:09 PM) But Rock, in a socialist utopia you could have gone to school for free! And then you could have chosen your profession and worked it for the same wage as everyone else! And then we'd all get to enjoy cell phones and tv's and nice cars. Don't you see?! I do believe in things like healthcare being a human right. But advanced education, wages and luxury goods are something you work for. And I don't see any reason to change that. I've worked 3 fast food jobs and they were a joke. Paying someone the same salary as a teacher or the like is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 21, 2015 -> 02:08 PM) College isn't a right IMO. Either are luxury items. Too many people are of a different mindset. And yet they're supposed to be able to find something better than minimum wage jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 21, 2015 -> 02:17 PM) I do believe in things like healthcare being a human right. But advanced education, wages and luxury goods are something you work for. And I don't see any reason to change that. I've worked 3 fast food jobs and they were a joke. Paying someone the same salary as a teacher or the like is hilarious. Um, you don't realize what my response is going to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2015 -> 01:01 PM) The good news is you can afford to pay that back on a minimum wage salary, right? If you have a college degree and you're working minimum wage to pay back your loans, something went wrong. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2015 -> 01:01 PM) And I'm sure you have no problems with your tax dollars going to pay for the health care among the poor right? That's not a cost you'd prefer to not pay as a taxpayer? Because I'd much rather McDonalds pay for that than me. They do offer health coverage. But I assume whether the workers get it or not has to do more with hours worked (FT vs PT) than it does their hourly wage. What if all their employees made $15/hour but only worked 15-20 hours per week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2015 -> 01:37 PM) And yet they're supposed to be able to find something better than minimum wage jobs. They are supposed to start at minimum wage and eventually work up to better jobs. There are tons of people in retail making decent money in management positions with only a HS diploma simply because they worked hard and got promoted. Edited May 21, 2015 by Iwritecode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2015 -> 01:17 PM) I seriously hate this line of thought. Yes, people who have jobs should be able to afford cell phones. Yes they should be able to afford a television. And it's not the Tv/Internet that gets people in trouble these days any more, its health care costs and college costs if they have families. A century ago you could have said the same thing about people who worked in factories. We decided as a society that those were instead going to be decent jobs, jobs that people could actually afford to live off of. People could say the exact same junk about lazy people on assembly lines turning bolts and how they don't work hard enough to deserve a decent life. At least for a while we decided to be better than that. Not all jobs are the same. Someone who works at McDonald's shouldn't just automatically be able to afford the same stuff that a doctor or lawyer can. Me, as a mid-level 30 year old analyst, should not be able to afford the same things that my fortune 500 CEO can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (Iwritecode @ May 21, 2015 -> 02:40 PM) They are supposed to start at minimum wage and eventually work up to better jobs. There are tons of people in retail making decent money in management positions with only a HS diploma simply because they worked hard and got promoted. Our factory workers start around $16 an hour and get paid time and half for OT with double pay for weekends. Most of these jobs are filled by people with nothing more than a HS diploma. Some of these jobs can be physically tough, mundane or even dangerous. They deserve to be paid more than the high school students working down the road at Taco Bell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 21, 2015 -> 02:38 PM) Our factory workers start around $16 an hour and get paid time and half for OT with double pay for weekends. Most of these jobs are filled by people with nothing more than a HS diploma. Some of these jobs can be physically tough, mundane or even dangerous. They deserve to be paid more than the high school students working down the road at Taco Bell. Agreed. I have worked in demo and in the Wrigley factory and ive seen these guys work harder than those fast food workers and I have also seen them work extra hours for pay and advancement opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 If wages were dependent on how hard one had to work , there would be zero incentive to even attend college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 How much does McDonalds make a year? How much do CEOs there make? While $15 an hour maybe way too much for that job, the company could trickle down profits to people it could benefit. Probably wouldn't hurt them that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I would just like to point out that Australia is a real country that exists, that they have a $14.81 minimum wage and that they still have thousands of fast food restaurants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 21, 2015 -> 05:18 PM) If wages were dependent on how hard one had to work , there would be zero incentive to even attend college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 21, 2015 -> 05:18 PM) If wages were dependent on how hard one had to work , there would be zero incentive to even attend college. Depends if you consider working hard in high school to make it to college and then in college to graduate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 There's a weird assumption here that nobody making less than $15/hour worked hard in school or works hard at their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 21, 2015 -> 05:28 PM) I would just like to point out that Australia is a real country that exists, that they have a $14.81 minimum wage and that they still have thousands of fast food restaurants. http://www.wsj.com/articles/australia-deba...high-1422210360 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 21, 2015 -> 06:55 PM) There's a weird assumption here that nobody making less than $15/hour worked hard in school or works hard at their job. The barrier to obtaining a college degree or technical training is insanely low and the benefits are incredibly high. Not doing so is just a failure these days for young people. I could understand a 40 year old. But an 18 year old? Knowing what you need for a good job? It's just dumb and a sign of a lack of effort/drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 QUOTE (Brian @ May 21, 2015 -> 05:24 PM) How much does McDonalds make a year? How much do CEOs there make? While $15 an hour maybe way too much for that job, the company could trickle down profits to people it could benefit. Probably wouldn't hurt them that much. The problem is you could make executive pay a dollar and it's such a small dent in the cost of covering the increase, especially for a company like mcdonalds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 21, 2015 -> 07:20 PM) The problem is you could make executive pay a dollar and it's such a small dent in the cost of covering the increase, especially for a company like mcdonalds. Does McDonald's actually pay restaurant employees or is the owner of each restaurant responsible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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