Would you have done things different?

[Dick Allen]

I have also read over and over again during the years that the ownership takes no money out of the franchise, and instead re-invests those funds.

So it is sitting somewhere making more money.

[lvjeremylv]

No need for this tone. No one is saying Reinsdorf or the White Sox are poor, but considering you don't have insight into books or the board for the Chicago White Sox, I'm going to venture to guess that their knowledge with which they are able to work is much better than yours. This isn't the same as "Mark Cuban owns the team, spend all the money!" There's a few more moving parts than that.

We only know what they tell us. Like 3 weeks ago when Hahn said the Sox were tapped out and not going to make any more big deals, then 2 seconds later we were hearing that they'd spent $42M on Melky Cabrera.

 

Let's just agree that the Sox have somewhere between $0 and $30M more that they could spend for 2015's payroll. It all depends on what they feel they should do. I think if they REALLY want to contend and make some SERIOUS noise, there's a guy out there that they could pull the trigger on (it's a big trigger that will require a lot of strength to pull, yes, but they have a finger for it) that would completely change the outlook and expectations of the season to come and the next 3-5 after it.

[southsider2k5]

I wonder if there's a way I can wire him some money, you know, so he can manage to eat a decent meal tonight? His portfolio is full of illiquid assets, and I feel guilty having all this liquid in my wallet.

 

= JR in his house right now cos he can't afford to turn the heat on.

 

 

Yes, if reality doesn't work, assume the other extreme. That makes for a great conversation.

[Thad Bosley]

If a $150 million payroll were realistic, the White Sox would have a $150 million payroll.

 

I think they could probably get away with a $110 million payroll this year, but that leaves very little wiggle room and I don't see the need to spend money just to spend money.

 

I also want nothing to do with either Scherzer or Shields 3 years from now, let alone 5 or 7.

If the Detroit Tigers who play in a much smaller market can feature a $163 million payroll, then there is no way I can accept the fact that a $150 million payroll is not "realistic" for the "Chicago" White Sox. No way!

[Dick Allen]

We only know what they tell us. Like 3 weeks ago when Hahn said the Sox were tapped out and not going to make any more big deals, then 2 seconds later we were hearing that they'd spent $42M on Melky Cabrera.

 

Let's just agree that the Sox have somewhere between $0 and $30M more that they could spend for 2015's payroll. It all depends on what they feel they should do. I think if they REALLY want to contend and make some SERIOUS noise, there's a guy out there that they could pull the trigger on (it's a big trigger that will require a lot of strength to pull, yes, but they have a finger for it) that would completely change the outlook and expectations of the season to come and the next 3-5 after it.

It's not the first time. They were busted and disgusted and then added Peavy and Rios to the payroll. When they signed Dunn, Paulie and AJ were considered gone, but they brought them back. They "found" $4 million sitting around for 1 month of Manny Ramirez.

 

They have money, but maybe one reason they have money is because they don't spend it like my wife.

 

Right now, I think the payroll is fine. The one problem with bumping it up to $150 million is expectations would be you would have to keep it there for a while or at the very minimum, it becomes the new target area if you dropped it.

 

I do think fans have to contribute. Some of the "crowds" when the Sox were contending in 2012 were ridiculously low. If a fan base won't show it will support a team that is winning, I can't blame an ownership group not wanting to risk losing a ton of money.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Dick Allen

[Kyyle23]

If the Detroit Tigers who play in a much smaller market can feature a $163 million payroll, then there is no way I can accept the fact that a $150 million payroll is not "realistic" for the "Chicago" White Sox. No way!

 

 

yea, its all the same. every team should treat it as such.

[southsider2k5]

If the Detroit Tigers who play in a much smaller market can feature a $163 million payroll, then there is no way I can accept the fact that a $150 million payroll is not "realistic" for the "Chicago" White Sox. No way!

 

The Tigers also drew 1.3 (or around 80% higher attendance) million more through the turnstyles last year, and have the entire Detroit metro market to themselves.

[witesoxfan]

We only know what they tell us. Like 3 weeks ago when Hahn said the Sox were tapped out and not going to make any more big deals, then 2 seconds later we were hearing that they'd spent $42M on Melky Cabrera.

 

Let's just agree that the Sox have somewhere between $0 and $30M more that they could spend for 2015's payroll. It all depends on what they feel they should do. I think if they REALLY want to contend and make some SERIOUS noise, there's a guy out there that they could pull the trigger on (it's a big trigger that will require a lot of strength to pull, yes, but they have a finger for it) that would completely change the outlook and expectations of the season to come and the next 3-5 after it.

 

I think that possibility exists - that there's money for the right guy - but that's an extreme scenario and it almost bit them last year with their interest in Tanaka.

 

Scherzer is absolutely not that guy. He's 30 years old and looking for a $175 million deal at the bare minimum. It's not a worthwhile investment.

 

If the Detroit Tigers who play in a much smaller market can feature a $163 million payroll, then there is no way I can accept the fact that a $150 million payroll is not "realistic" for the "Chicago" White Sox. No way!

 

Again, unless you know the structure of both the Detroit Tigers and Chicago White Sox boards, then there's no way you can make this statement.

 

Beyond that, Jerry Reinsdorf's net worth is $350 million. He's not the sole owner, but it is what it is. Mike Illitch's net worth is $1.7 billion. Even with the aforementioned discussion of the liquidity of net worth, Illitch is worth almost 5 times the amount Reinsdorf is. That's a slightly significant figure.

[shysocks]

I do think fans have to contribute. Some of the "crowds" when the Sox were contending in 2012 were ridiculously low. If a fan base won't show it will support a team that is winning, I can't blame an ownership group not wanting to risk losing a ton of money.

[ptatc]

If the Detroit Tigers who play in a much smaller market can feature a $163 million payroll, then there is no way I can accept the fact that a $150 million payroll is not "realistic" for the "Chicago" White Sox. No way!

They have a single owner in a single market. The Sox have a board of directors to which JR is responsible and they have the lesser share of a market with 2 teams. Illitch can do whatever he wants with the team. It's his. JR does not have this luxury.

 

JR has said repeatedly that he will not spend the Sox into the red. His ownership groups for the Bulls and Sox are different. He cannot steal money from his Bulls group and give it to the Sox group. While he owns more of the a great deal more of the Bulls than the Sox, they are still different groups.

[lvjeremylv]

It's not the first time. They were busted and disgusted and then added Peavy and Rios to the payroll. When they signed Dunn, Paulie and AJ were considered gone, but they brought them back. They "found" $4 million sitting around for 1 month of Manny Ramirez.

 

They have money, but maybe one reason they have money is because they don't spend it like my wife.

 

Right now, I think the payroll is fine. The one problem with bumping it up to $150 million is expectations would be you would have to keep it there for a while or at the very minimum, it becomes the new target area if you dropped it.

 

I do think fans have to contribute. Some of the "crowds" when the Sox were contending in 2012 were ridiculously low. If a fan base won't show it will support a team that is winning, I can't blame an ownership group not wanting to risk losing a ton of money.

I would hope they would be willing to add payroll at the trading deadline if they were in contention and the right player was out there that could help. If they want to stay at $110M or whatever they're at now, I'm fine with that if they want to leave themselves some flexibility later. But I, like you, refuse to accept the notion that they would stay at this current spending because they don't have it. They DO. It's all about a willingness (or lack thereof) to spend more.

[lasttriptotulsa]

I would hope they would be willing to add payroll at the trading deadline if they were in contention and the right player was out there that could help. If they want to stay at $110M or whatever they're at now, I'm fine with that if they want to leave themselves some flexibility later. But I, like you, refuse to accept the notion that they would stay at this current spending because they don't have it. They DO. It's all about a willingness (or lack thereof) to spend more.

 

You have no way of knowing how much money the Sox are sitting on or how much they are able to spend. Teams do not open their books other than the Packers. Again Jerry's money is not the Sox money. He is not the sole owner. A business owner plugging in his personal assets to help float a business is a good way for a business and its owner to both go bankrupt.

Edited January 5, 2015 by lasttriptotulsa

[Dick Allen]

You have no way of knowing how much money the Sox are sitting on or how much they are able to spend. Teams do not open their books other than the Packers. Again Jerry's money is not the Sox money. He is not the sole owner. A business owner plugging in his personal assets to help float a business is a good way for a business and its owner to both go bankrupt.

One thing we do know is the White Sox company line about every dime that comes in, goes out, is totally false, and that's fine.

 

I think the publicity of turning profits when your team isn't making the playoffs would entice the White Sox fanbase even less than they are enticed now, and it would be Tampa sad.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Dick Allen

[max power]

Rick Hahn is much better at this than me, and everyone else here.

[LDF]

One thing we do know is the White Sox company line about every dime that comes in, goes out, is totally false, and that's fine.

 

I think the publicity of turning profits when your team isn't making the playoffs would entice the White Sox fanbase even less than they are enticed now, and it would be Tampa sad.

 

there are several side businesses that also deals with the sox running

of the business.

 

there is 1 for all the alcohol and soda, 1 for the staples, 1 for

souvenirs, etc.....

 

so if he is talking about the attendances and salary, he might

be right.

[Thad Bosley]

They have a single owner in a single market. The Sox have a board of directors to which JR is responsible and they have the lesser share of a market with 2 teams. Illitch can do whatever he wants with the team. It's his. JR does not have this luxury.

 

JR has said repeatedly that he will not spend the Sox into the red. His ownership groups for the Bulls and Sox are different. He cannot steal money from his Bulls group and give it to the Sox group. While he owns more of the a great deal more of the Bulls than the Sox, they are still different groups.

Sounds, then, like the Sox are operating at quite a competitive disadvantage, which really shouldn't be the case for a team playing in a large market.

[GreenSox]

Things have been pretty slow around here, so I just wanted to create a discussion regarding how things have gone so far this off season and what you expect the rest of the off season.

 

For me, I don't think I would of done a single thing different. I have loved every move so far whether it was the small Dan Jennings deal, to the huge deals with Samardzija, Robertson, and Cabrera.

 

The rest of the off season, I would love to add Emilio Bonifacio, another bullpen arm (Adams? Crain? Cotts? Janssen? Ogando?), and possibly another starter depth wise.

 

What are your guys thoughts?

Well, you got your wish.

I'm cool with the Bonifacio signing - beats trading from someone.

 

to answer the question, I would have waited another year to go "all in" and wouldn't have signed Cabrera or Robertson yet, nor traded from Samardizja. (would have done most of the rest, though). Would have used some Samardzija or other assets to acquire a young outfielder instead.

But given the decision to beef up this year, the execution was excellent.

Edited January 5, 2015 by GreenSox

[bmags]

Would anyone sign Lindstrom again?

[LDF]

Sounds, then, like the Sox are operating at quite a competitive disadvantage, which really shouldn't be the case for a team playing in a large market.

all the side businesses that belong to the big picture, is very convoluted

to the lame man. so yeah the real money is in all the other businesses.

 

do you know what is the biggest profit marker for any owner, corporate

sponsorship and then the parking revenue.

 

if they had a deal like LA with the tv deal, what is that money, 300+

mil a yr.

[LDF]

Well, you got your wish.

I'm cool with the Bonifacio signing - beats trading from someone.

 

to answer the question, I would have waited another year to go "all in" and wouldn't have signed Cabrera or Robertson yet, nor traded from Samardizja. (would have done most of the rest, though). Would have used some Samardzija or other assets to acquire a young outfielder instead.

But given the decision to beef up this year, the execution was excellent.

 

here is another thing, maybe they know they will not get to sign

Jeff S for any money except max. so lets use the pitcher he is and

support the team with good to very good players and make a run

for the world series.

[LDF]

Would anyone sign Lindstrom again?

 

for me, i hate to say this, did that rt before, forget about it.

Edited January 5, 2015 by LDF

[witesoxfan]

Would anyone sign Lindstrom again?

 

For this year? No, but if we're using revisionist history and wondering if I still would have signed him prior to 2013, yes I would have.

[GreenSox]

Would anyone sign Lindstrom again?

I wouldn't. I was surprised we picked up the option last year as he wasn't particularly good in 2013 (but I guess we had no choice really).

[southsider2k5]

Would anyone sign Lindstrom again?

 

On a minor league deal, sure.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Would anyone sign Lindstrom again?

If it was a Minor League deal based heavily on incentives, then yes.