French Newspaper Attack

[bmags]

I don't think the AP is concerned about being nice, they are concerned that someone they employ could die.

 

That's not a risk that 95% of magazines or newspapers face. The Daily Picayune could post something terrible about Mohammed tomorrow and be fine.

[Jenksismyhero]

Good to know the terrorists have convinced you that censorship is justified.

[Jenksismyhero]

Hilarious that cnn posted this when they refuse to show the drawings.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/07/opinion/ghit...gazine-killing/

Edited January 8, 2015 by Jenksismybitch

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

There is no defending what happened today. It's cowardly, and it's on the same page as Nazism in the Big Book of S--t.

 

That said, after already having their office firebombed in response to publishing content they knew damn well would offend and likely draw a reaction from the especially strict minority in the crowd, and continuing to troll them as recently as one hour before the attack, well, if someone decides that they want to play a game of chicken with an oncoming freight train and loses- sympathy is one of the last things I'd feel (and even then, most of it would be for the family and for the engineer in the cabin that was powerless to stop it and had to watch it from the best seat in the house).

 

The victims here are the other 99.9% of the world's Muslim population who have already been lumped in with these scum outliers for a while now, and for anyone fortunate enough to live in the free world.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Swingandalongonetoleft

[bmags]

Uh, no the victims are the 12 murdered over a cartoon.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Uh, no the victims are the 12 murdered over a cartoon.

 

 

...after already having their office firebombed in response to publishing content they knew damn well would offend and likely draw a reaction from the especially strict minority in the crowd, and continuing to troll them as recently as one hour before the attack, well, if someone decides that they want to play a game of chicken with an oncoming freight train and loses- sympathy is one of the last things I'd feel...

 

Going to the zoo and accidentally falling into the lion exhibit is different from going to the zoo and willingly hopping the fence into the lion exhibit. I'd also compare it to someone smoking 3 packs a day knowing full well the danger of doing so, and then magically ending up with terminal lung cancer.

[mr_genius]

Going to the zoo and accidentally falling into the lion exhibit is different from going to the zoo and willingly hopping the fence into the lion exhibit. I'd also compare it to someone smoking 3 packs a day knowing full well the danger of doing so, and then magically ending up with terminal lung cancer.

 

idiot

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

idiot

 

Ok...

 

Are we going to disregard the fact that the intended audience of the occasional b**** slap by Charlie Hebdo are a pack of unreasonable and violent bandits who have proven time and time again that they won't hesitate to use violence, and again, have already done so against this particular magazine? They see things differently. Politicians over here won't even blink when they find their way into various forms of satire. I think based on occurrences in the past 5 years alone it could be deduced that certain groups see things very differently. People keep saying that it was a f***ing cartoon, and yeah, it is to many of us here; but their values are different than ours. s***ting on those values isn't going to end well most of the time.

[cabiness42]

Ok...

 

Are we going to disregard the fact that the intended audience of the occasional b**** slap by Charlie Hebdo are a pack of unreasonable and violent bandits who have proven time and time again that they won't hesitate to use violence, and again, have already done so against this particular magazine? They see things differently. Politicians over here won't even blink when they find their way into various forms of satire. I think based on occurrences in the past 5 years alone it could be deduced that certain groups see things very differently. People keep saying that it was a f***ing cartoon, and yeah, it is to many of us here; but their values are different than ours. s***ting on those values isn't going to end well most of the time.

 

I get your point that the employees of this company should have had the expectation that there was a nontrivial chance that they would lose their lives over their actions. If they believe in their strongly enough to be willing to be martyred, then that's their choice.

[LittleHurt05]

There is no defending what happened today. It's cowardly, and it's on the same page as Nazism in the Big Book of S--t.

 

That said, after already having their office firebombed in response to publishing content they knew damn well would offend and likely draw a reaction from the especially strict minority in the crowd, and continuing to troll them as recently as one hour before the attack, well, if someone decides that they want to play a game of chicken with an oncoming freight train and loses- sympathy is one of the last things I'd feel (and even then, most of it would be for the family and for the engineer in the cabin that was powerless to stop it and had to watch it from the best seat in the house).

 

The victims here are the other 99.9% of the world's Muslim population who have already been lumped in with these scum outliers for a while now, and for anyone fortunate enough to live in the free world.

 

Don't forget about the police officers that lost their lives trying to save him too.

 

Freedom of speech is great, the terrorists are awful, awful people, but I still just have a hard time justifying the point in publishing these cartoons. Sitting in your cozy Paris office thinking you are invincible and can go toe-to-toe with the terrorists, well they won and 11 others are gone. There are ways to fight terrorism, but taunting them by blaspheming their god in a way that also offends some peaceful Muslims doesn't seem the way to go about it.

[LDF]

Ok...

 

Are we going to disregard the fact that the intended audience of the occasional b**** slap by Charlie Hebdo are a pack of unreasonable and violent bandits who have proven time and time again that they won't hesitate to use violence, and again, have already done so against this particular magazine? They see things differently. Politicians over here won't even blink when they find their way into various forms of satire. I think based on occurrences in the past 5 years alone it could be deduced that certain groups see things very differently. People keep saying that it was a f***ing cartoon, and yeah, it is to many of us here; but their values are different than ours. s***ting on those values isn't going to end well most of the time.

 

a good post, but i have to disagree. these are violent people who did this and using their

religion as an excuse to cause more problems. in this situation deaths to innocent people

over what, a cartoon.

 

next they will be causing problems for wearing some different garments on a different day. yeah

this is a stupid point, but so is this form of violence.

Edited January 8, 2015 by LDF

[bmags]

Don't forget about the police officers that lost their lives trying to save him too.

 

Freedom of speech is great, the terrorists are awful, awful people, but I still just have a hard time justifying the point in publishing these cartoons. Sitting in your cozy Paris office thinking you are invincible and can go toe-to-toe with the terrorists, well they won and 11 others are gone. There are ways to fight terrorism, but taunting them by blaspheming their god in a way that also offends some peaceful Muslims doesn't seem the way to go about it.

 

I find it odd that you are conflating or assuming that they felt they were fighting terrorism. They were exhibiting their right to satire in a nation full of it. There is also no one "group" that is attacking them, so saying they knew a freight train is coming is strange.

 

Lastly, I disagree that the terrorists won.

 

Russia wouldn't start a war with the US over an editorial cartoon showing Putin doing a bear, because they have real power.

 

This group is lashing out violently because they have no real power and they will just do whatever.

[StrangeSox]

Shooting And Explosions Target Mosques In France After Charlie Hebdo Shooting

[EvilMonkey]

The victims here are the other 99.9% of the world's Muslim population who have already been lumped in with these scum outliers for a while now, and for anyone fortunate enough to live in the free world.

You can not be more wrong in that statement. First, that percentage is so wrong it is almost laughable. International intelligence estimates anywhere from 10 to 25% of the Muslim population is either for or strongly sympathetic towards this type of action. Even at the low end, that is hundreds of millions who would like to kill people over a cartoon. The other percent are not victims here at all, but many are in some way enablers themselves. In other threads thew 'blue wall' was decried of cops standing up and covering for other cops regardless. Well that same situation applies here, as many of these so called peaceful Muslims will try and find ways to defend this, excuse this or just outright dismiss this. They will circle the wagons and cry 'racism!', when Islam isn't a damn race to begin with, because we all know the racism card still plays. CAIR will come out and worry about all the poor Musdlims who will now be attacked in retribution, when up to this point it has rarely happened. And many of the supposed cases of it happening have been found to have been self-made to go for the sympathy, because you know, the narrative is good.. Gee, wonder where they learned that? In this day and age the type of acts regularly committed in the name of Islam by its radical elements is unacceptable. You have no right to NOT be offended. You have no right to kill someone because they think your religion is a cult. You have no right to kill someone because they like bacon, show some skin or drink booze. This cannot be excused at all.

[GoSox05]

Hundreds of millions of Muslims will kill over a cartoon? Ok.

[EvilMonkey]

Hundreds of millions of Muslims will kill over a cartoon? Ok.

Being obtuse on purpose or just have trouble comprehending what was written? Let me quote you here. "International intelligence estimates anywhere from 10 to 25% of the Muslim population is either for or strongly sympathetic towards this type of action" Quite different from what you just wrote.

 

*edit*

Math and reading aside, do you think it is OK or justifiable or anything like that what they did to the people in that office? Are you assigning any of the 'blame' to the editors and people who did the cartoon?

Edited January 8, 2015 by Alpha Dog

[GoSox05]

Being obtuse on purpose or just have trouble comprehending what was written? Let me quote you here. "International intelligence estimates anywhere from 10 to 25% of the Muslim population is either for or strongly sympathetic towards this type of action" Quite different from what you just wrote.

 

*edit*

Math and reading aside, do you think it is OK or justifiable or anything like that what they did to the people in that office? Are you assigning any of the 'blame' to the editors and people who did the cartoon?

 

You said "Even at the low end, that is hundreds of millions who would like to kill people over a cartoon."

 

 

The only people I blame in this are the two or three people that did it.

 

 

I didn't blame all Christians when Anders Breivik murdered 77 people back in 2011. Just like I'm not going to blame all Muslims for this.

[Y2HH]

I'm getting pretty sick of all religion, discussion of religion, and people who credit god for anything good in their lives, but drop the "mysterious ways" excuse for all the bad.

[EvilMonkey]

You said "Even at the low end, that is hundreds of millions who would like to kill people over a cartoon."

 

 

The only people I blame in this are the two or three people that did it.

 

 

I didn't blame all Christians when Anders Breivik murdered 77 people back in 2011. Just like I'm not going to blame all Muslims for this.

Nobody anywhere said all, except you.

[GoSox05]

Nobody anywhere said all, except you.

 

You said "Even at the low end, that is hundreds of millions who would like to kill people over a cartoon. The other percent are not victims here at all, but many are in some way enablers themselves."

 

 

So if not all, you are getting pretty close.

 

20% want to straight up kill cartoonists, the other percentage are enablers.

[Y2HH]

You said "Even at the low end, that is hundreds of millions who would like to kill people over a cartoon. The other percent are not victims here at all, but many are in some way enablers themselves."

 

 

So if not all, you are getting pretty close.

 

20% want to straight up kill cartoonists, the other percentage are enablers.

 

That's not what he said.

 

The 20% includes both of those.

[GoSox05]

Ok, so the enablers are included in the 20%. Got it.

[EvilMonkey]

That's not what he said.

 

The 20% includes both of those.

Doesn't matter. it is way more than 1/10 of 1% and less than all. And it is a tragically large number that is enabled by an even higher number that have no issue with violence in the name of their religion, enjoy violence in the name of their religion or are too scared to say anything about it other than token words against it in the days immediately following an incident such as this and then shutting up again and keeping to themselves.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Alpha Dog

[EvilMonkey]

Anjem Choudary, a very prominent cleric in the UK, has penned an oped blaming the newspaper saying they should have known what was going to happen. There will be many non muslims who will agree with that. He is just one person. but one person with thousands of devoted followers in the UK.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015...bates/21417461/

 

Contrary to popular misconception, Islam does not mean peace but rather means submission to the commands of Allah alone. Therefore, Muslims do not believe in the concept of freedom of expression, as their speech and actions are determined by divine revelation and not based on people's desires.

 

Although Muslims may not agree about the idea of freedom of expression, even non-Muslims who espouse it say it comes with responsibilities. In an increasingly unstable and insecure world, the potential consequences of insulting the Messenger Muhammad are known to Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

 

Muslims consider the honor of the Prophet Muhammad to be dearer to them than that of their parents or even themselves. To defend it is considered to be an obligation upon them. The strict punishment if found guilty of this crime under sharia (Islamic law) is capital punishment implementable by an Islamic State. This is because the Messenger Muhammad said, "Whoever insults a Prophet kill him."

 

However, because the honor of the Prophet is something which all Muslims want to defend, many will take the law into their own hands, as we often see.

 

Within liberal democracies, freedom of expression has curtailments, such as laws against incitement and hatred.

 

Well Mr. Choudary, you can do whatever you want back in your home country. In most of the civilized world, you don't kill people because you were 'insulted'. If you do, you go to jail. if you want to live in that system, go where it is. I for one will feel free to insult your religion, as it barely qualifies above cult status, as practiced by you and those like you. Why the people of England let him live off their Welfare and preach hatred is beyond me.

[GoSox05]

After Charlie Hebdo attack, U.S. Catholic group says cartoonists ‘provoked’ slaughter

 

Bill Donohue said something similar.