French Newspaper Attack

[LDF]

Crud, didn't paste the correct link but it was available at the 2nd.

 

And the fact that you're LOLing is equally refusing to look at data on the grounds that they don't fit your context.

 

nice link. i do not how you got to this site, but it is going to be nice reading.

 

many thanks.

[Reddy]

Crud, didn't paste the correct link but it was available at the 2nd.

 

And the fact that you're LOLing is equally refusing to look at data on the grounds that they don't fit your context.

 

Kinda don't get you criticizing the LOL when you left out the key information you'd meant to link...

 

After I'll look at it, I'll see if the LOL should be retracted.

 

[Texsox]

If someone that posts here commits a terrible deed are we all tainted by our association? People all have beliefs, we take one set of beliefs, apply a label, and believe that is the cause. So if someone is a certain religion, Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc, and perverts the religion to fit their own world view, we still blame their religion. I'm not certain doing that is necessarily of any help.

 

On a parallel thought, Lee Harvey Oswald did not believe in any organized religion, and based on his time in the Soviet Union, was probably atheistic. Shall we blame his terrorist actions on being an atheist? Apply the same call to action. Stop all atheists, etc.

 

How about we treat criminals in a group, regardless of their motives, and allow honest people to their beliefs?

[Reddy]

Please, don't act like this stuff doesn't count because it doesn't fit your narrative.

My narrative? I was on your side of this argument until a couple days ago.

 

And a few attacks over decades IS different from one every couple weeks!

 

Pakistan, Sydney and France have all happened in the last month or so.

[Reddy]

If someone that posts here commits a terrible deed are we all tainted by our association? People all have beliefs, we take one set of beliefs, apply a label, and believe that is the cause. So if someone is a certain religion, Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc, and perverts the religion to fit their own world view, we still blame their religion. I'm not certain doing that is necessarily of any help.

 

On a parallel thought, Lee Harvey Oswald did not believe in any organized religion, and based on his time in the Soviet Union, was probably atheistic. Shall we blame his terrorist actions on being an atheist? Apply the same call to action. Stop all atheists, etc.

 

How about we treat criminals in a group, regardless of their motives, and allow honest people to their beliefs?

 

I completely agree, but the question is HOW?

 

Right now we have no way of stopping radical Islamist attacks in Europe because of the ease of transportation across borders.

 

All I'm asking is for the non-radical Muslim leaders of the world to stand the f*** up and say something! Condemn these acts and radicalism in general. Clarify the teachings of the Koran on a global scale.

 

They simply refuse to do it out of either fear, or agreement. How do you all propose to address this?

 

[Balta1701]

My narrative? I was on your side of this argument until a couple days ago.

 

And a few attacks over decades IS different from one every couple weeks!

 

Pakistan, Sydney and France have all happened in the last month or so.

There was a terror bombing against African Americans in Colorado a couple days ago and we hardly noticed.

[Balta1701]

I completely agree, but the question is HOW?

 

Right now we have no way of stopping radical Islamist attacks in Europe because of the ease of transportation across borders.

 

All I'm asking is for the non-radical Muslim leaders of the world to stand the f*** up and say something! Condemn these acts and radicalism in general. Clarify the teachings of the Koran on a global scale.

 

They simply refuse to do it out of either fear, or agreement. How do you all propose to address this?

No, they do it all the time. It's not exactly hard to find this.

 

One

Two (even Iran in that one)

Three

Four

Buzzfeed style list of 46 examples

Condemnation from Hamas.

 

Summed up well by Brookings Institution fellow "“Each time a terrorist atrocity takes place, the condemnations of Muslim mainstream figures are barely registered."

 

The fact that you don't hear these is not a testament to them not existing, it's a testament to the fact that 2 particular extremes, both of which basically want war, don't want you to hear about them. The true radicals in the islamic world don't want them published, and the true radicals who keep starting wars in that area don't want to hear about them.

[Reddy]

No, they do it all the time. It's not exactly hard to find this.

 

One

Two (even Iran in that one)

Three

Four

Buzzfeed style list of 46 examples

Condemnation from Hamas.

 

Summed up well by Brookings Institution fellow "“Each time a terrorist atrocity takes place, the condemnations of Muslim mainstream figures are barely registered."

 

The fact that you don't hear these is not a testament to them not existing, it's a testament to the fact that 2 particular extremes, both of which basically want war, don't want you to hear about them. The true radicals in the islamic world don't want them published, and the true radicals who keep starting wars in that area don't want to hear about them.

 

Great stuff. Thanks. Believe me, I don't WANT to agree with anyone at Fox News. Haha

 

[Balta1701]

Tired of waiting on Muslims to condemn terrorism? Get the "ICondemn®" App!

[LDF]

If someone that posts here commits a terrible deed are we all tainted by our association? People all have beliefs, we take one set of beliefs, apply a label, and believe that is the cause. So if someone is a certain religion, Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc, and perverts the religion to fit their own world view, we still blame their religion. I'm not certain doing that is necessarily of any help.

 

On a parallel thought, Lee Harvey Oswald did not believe in any organized religion, and based on his time in the Soviet Union, was probably atheistic. Shall we blame his terrorist actions on being an atheist? Apply the same call to action. Stop all atheists, etc.

 

How about we treat criminals in a group, regardless of their motives, and allow honest people to their beliefs?

 

that is everyone believes he is the lone gunman.

 

not a good example. how bout using the Columbine High School shooting.

[Texsox]

that is everyone believes he is the lone gunman.

 

not a good example. how bout using the Columbine High School shooting.

 

I'm not understanding your point.

[Reddy]

that is everyone believes he is the lone gunman.

 

not a good example. how bout using the Columbine High School shooting.

It's also the N=1 fallacy... Plenty of issues with that argument

[Texsox]

It's also the N=1 fallacy... Plenty of issues with that argument

 

Either argument takes a very small subset of a group of people who share similar beliefs and expands that to include every member. It also makes the supposition that because you identify with a certain belief that all your behaviors can be attributed to that shared belief.

[Reddy]

Either argument takes a very small subset of a group of people who share similar beliefs and expands that to include every member. It also makes the supposition that because you identify with a certain belief that all your behaviors can be attributed to that shared belief.

Islamists' behaviors CAN be attributed to the shared belief that infidels should submit to sharia or die.

 

That is not the case with all, or most, Muslims.

 

It is the case with those carrying out these types of attacks.

[caulfield12]

I completely agree, but the question is HOW?

 

Right now we have no way of stopping radical Islamist attacks in Europe because of the ease of transportation across borders.

 

All I'm asking is for the non-radical Muslim leaders of the world to stand the f*** up and say something! Condemn these acts and radicalism in general. Clarify the teachings of the Koran on a global scale.

 

They simply refuse to do it out of either fear, or agreement. How do you all propose to address this?

 

Isn't closing the borders tantamount to the US building a huge wall along the Rio Grande...so hatred and distrust of foreigners essentially ends up winning out over freedom and equality?

 

If 60% of Americans are Christian and believe every word in the New Testament, they would be condemning gays and lesbians and considered in the eyes of their religion as equally culpable as gays for not instructing them about the error in their ways when given the opportunity to do so. Stopping Westboro Baptist Church in a world of free speech is equally challenging as getting the news media to cover every Muslim speaking out against violence. It doesn't fit the narrative. There's no blood or fear. There's no Nightcrawler showing up to take pictures of the non-carnage.

 

As far as that goes, shouldn't we just blame the media for covering terrorism? If they ignored it, wouldn't it quickly wither on the vine and die? No martyrs, virgins in heaven or funding without tv cameras and news reporters.

Edited January 10, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

I'm not understanding your point.

 

 

i am saying that if one believes that Oswald was the lone gunman.

[caulfield12]

Either argument takes a very small subset of a group of people who share similar beliefs and expands that to include every member. It also makes the supposition that because you identify with a certain belief that all your behaviors can be attributed to that shared belief.

 

And yet we don't round up the disaffected social misfits (especially with rich parents) who are members of the Trenchcoat Mafia in every school on suspicion of bomb and gun plots. Or every US Postal Service employee.

[Y2HH]

This thread has jumped the shark and is now accomplishing nothing. It's become a mindless stream of "I don't have the answer, or anything close to a suggestion, so here is the most politically correct thing I can say."

 

I'm sure that'll solve the problem.

 

If I was religious, which I'm not because science, but if I was, and things such as this seemed to be happening on a daily a basis in the name of my religion, I'd either leave it or I'd be speaking out against it on a daily f***ing basis, and demanding the leaders of said religion do the same. And if they refused, again, I'd have to do some soul searching to find a new way of life because f*** this and f*** them.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Y2HH

[Texsox]

This thread has jumped the shark and is now accomplishing nothing. It's become a mindless stream of "I don't have the answer, or anything close to a suggestion, so here is the most politically correct thing I can say."

 

I'm sure that'll solve the problem.

 

If I was religious, which I'm not because science, but if I was, and things such as this seemed to be happening on a daily a basis in the name of my religion, I'd either leave it or I'd be speaking out against it on a daily f***ing basis, and demanding the leaders of said religion do the same. And if they refused, again, I'd have to do some soul searching to find a new way of life because f*** this and f*** them.

 

 

Science has created the worse imaginable ways of killing people. Bombs, chemical weapons, guns, diseases. Why aren't you condemning the evils of science on a daily f***ing basis? You should be demanding that the science leaders also condemn scientific discoveries to kill people. Or find another way of life.

[Texsox]

i am saying that if one believes that Oswald was the lone gunman.

 

Right so if more were involved that becomes even more like the recent terrorist activity. Atheists assassinating the President of the United States.

[LDF]

Right so if more were involved that becomes even more like the recent terrorist activity. Atheists assassinating the President of the United States.

 

you are missing my point and maybe i should have said it differently.

 

using the dallas and the killing of the president is and was not a religious reason. using

it as an example to try to make a point was wrong. terrorist attack b/c of religion is what

i would like to criticize, but i will refrain tonite.

 

now religion terrorist is a small point use the Columbine High School shooting if you

want to make a point of plain and stupid violence. better yet, let them kill themselves.

 

what still gets me is these so call innocent muslims don't say anything for or against.

[Reddy]

This thread has jumped the shark and is now accomplishing nothing. It's become a mindless stream of "I don't have the answer, or anything close to a suggestion, so here is the most politically correct thing I can say."

 

I'm sure that'll solve the problem.

 

If I was religious, which I'm not because science, but if I was, and things such as this seemed to be happening on a daily a basis in the name of my religion, I'd either leave it or I'd be speaking out against it on a daily f***ing basis, and demanding the leaders of said religion do the same. And if they refused, again, I'd have to do some soul searching to find a new way of life because f*** this and f*** them.

 

I love us sometimes.

[caulfield12]

Science has created the worse imaginable ways of killing people. Bombs, chemical weapons, guns, diseases. Why aren't you condemning the evils of science on a daily f***ing basis? You should be demanding that the science leaders also condemn scientific discoveries to kill people. Or find another way of life.

 

 

Right. Scientists. Weapons makers. The media. Countries which have a lack of gun control laws because their Constitutions are being deliberately misinterpreted.

 

How many mass shootings have there been in the U.S. In the last decade? After nearly every one of them, it seemed common sense might prevail. But nothing has changed.

 

It's not so simple as it would seem to change the ideology of any group, country or religion...look at polygamy in the Mormon Church (in the end a very small splinter group) or the issue of slavery for 400+ years (which resulted in a Civil War).

 

It's not just Sharia law here. It's also the division of Sunni and Shiite. Or look at Northern Ireland for a Christian example. Two groups (Protestants and Catholics) that have almost the exact same fundamental beliefs.

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

Science has created the worse imaginable ways of killing people. Bombs, chemical weapons, guns, diseases. Why aren't you condemning the evils of science on a daily f***ing basis? You should be demanding that the science leaders also condemn scientific discoveries to kill people. Or find another way of life.

 

 

Right. Scientists. Weapons makers. The media. Countries which have a lack of gun control laws because their Constitutions are being deliberately misinterpreted.

 

How many mass shootings have there been in the U.S. In the last decade? After nearly every one of them, it seemed common sense might prevail. But nothing has changed.

 

It's not so simple as it would seem to change the ideology of any group, country or religion...look at polygamy in the Mormon Church (in the end a very small splinter group) or the issue of slavery for 400+ years (which resulted in a Civil War).

 

It's not just Sharia law here. It's also the division of Sunni and Shiite. Or look at Northern Ireland for a Christian example. Two groups (Protestants and Catholics) that have almost the exact same fundamental beliefs.

 

 

 

[EvilMonkey]

I'm sorry but this is all kinds of bulls***. There are so many different sects of Republicans/conservatives/Democrats/liberals, and some of them are racist/prejudice/violent, it is not the fault of the rest of them for not controlling the bad ones.