French Newspaper Attack

[EvilMonkey]

I feel this way about ALL organized politics. At some point in time, whether in the past, present or future, some piece of those religions will commit terrible acts in the name of their (party)god.

 

[Y2HH]

Science has created the worse imaginable ways of killing people. Bombs, chemical weapons, guns, diseases. Why aren't you condemning the evils of science on a daily f***ing basis? You should be demanding that the science leaders also condemn scientific discoveries to kill people. Or find another way of life.

 

This is nothing more than reductio ad absurdum/strawman, and doesn't deserve further response.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Y2HH

[Y2HH]

I love us sometimes.

 

The good book clinging religious around here don't.

[Texsox]

you are missing my point and maybe i should have said it differently.

 

using the dallas and the killing of the president is and was not a religious reason. using

it as an example to try to make a point was wrong. terrorist attack b/c of religion is what

i would like to criticize, but i will refrain tonite.

 

now religion terrorist is a small point use the Columbine High School shooting if you

want to make a point of plain and stupid violence. better yet, let them kill themselves.

 

what still gets me is these so call innocent muslims don't say anything for or against.

 

Right there was not a religious reason. So those without religion, this one is on you. Someone shared your belief against religion, why doesn't that stigma attach itself to everyone who does not believe? Because I am Christian, I am suppose to denounce daily every criminal act committed by a Christian or find a new way of life. So if that is our responsibilities, then if you check off no religion shouldn't you have the same responsibility? Or are those crimes somehow different?

[Texsox]

 

 

Why are religious groups treated differently than any other group?

 

When Charles Whitman climbed the clock tower at UT-Austin and murdered 16 people should every member of the Boy Scouts worldwide have made pronouncements denouncing Whitman?

 

When Ligue ran on the field and assaulted a Royals coach, was it the responsibility of every Sox fan to denounce the attack?

 

Just because someone perverts a belief and does something because they believe a certain way, doesn't mean that an entire group should somehow be responsible. Everyone here belongs to groups that share an idea, a belief, something, that doesn't mean you are responsible for everything that happens to be done in that name.

[Reddy]

Why are religious groups treated differently than any other group?

 

When Charles Whitman climbed the clock tower at UT-Austin and murdered 16 people should every member of the Boy Scouts worldwide have made pronouncements denouncing Whitman?

 

When Ligue ran on the field and assaulted a Royals coach, was it the responsibility of every Sox fan to denounce the attack?

 

Just because someone perverts a belief and does something because they believe a certain way, doesn't mean that an entire group should somehow be responsible. Everyone here belongs to groups that share an idea, a belief, something, that doesn't mean you are responsible for everything that happens to be done in that name.

 

Your arguments are way off base, but I'll humor you to show you the glaring difference.

 

If Whitman did that in the NAME of the Boy Scouts, or Ligue did it in the NAME of all Sox fans, then those groups have a responsibility to publically say that they do NOT support or condone those actions.

 

This isn't terrorism from people who just happen to be Muslim, it's terrorism in the NAME of all Islam. Therefore it's the leaders of Islams' responsibility to refute their actions.

 

[LDF]

Your arguments are way off base, but I'll humor you to show you the glaring difference.

 

If Whitman did that in the NAME of the Boy Scouts, or Ligue did it in the NAME of all Sox fans, then those groups have a responsibility to publically say that they do NOT support or condone those actions.

 

This isn't terrorism from people who just happen to be Muslim, it's terrorism in the NAME of all Islam. Therefore it's the leaders of Islams' responsibility to refute their actions.

 

wow that was a great response.

 

i will be honest, on Tex response to my post, i didn't know how to respond. either way

a nice discussion.

[Texsox]

Your arguments are way off base, but I'll humor you to show you the glaring difference.

 

If Whitman did that in the NAME of the Boy Scouts, or Ligue did it in the NAME of all Sox fans, then those groups have a responsibility to publically say that they do NOT support or condone those actions.

 

This isn't terrorism from people who just happen to be Muslim, it's terrorism in the NAME of all Islam. Therefore it's the leaders of Islams' responsibility to refute their actions.

 

Allow me to try a different way.

 

 

John Hinckley tried killing Reagan in the name of Jodie Foster. Any sane person understands that Jodie Foster didn't have anything to do with it, yet if he said he did it for Jesus Christ or Mohammed you want everyone of that faith and every church leader to condemn the attack?! It's the same s***. The people are crazy, the misinterpret a religion, use it as an excuse, whatever, that shouldn't taint the rest of the people in that church. Anymore than any other group. Boy Scouts, Elks, Masons, Democrats, Republicans, all have a shared set of beliefs, something that binds them, if someone says they are killing someone because of a group like that we all understand that isn't the case, they are just crazy. But if they say a religious group, BOOM! everyone on the group is wrong. Why can't we accept that crazy people do crazy s*** and try to justify it by many different means.

 

Why the f*** an I responsible for something someone does just because they claim to believe the same thing I do, when in fact they do not? If some crazed individual falsely believes the Catholic faith requires him to kill abortion doctors, why am I responsible? You are taking a tiny minority of people and insulting the rest of us. These people who commit these crimes are bat s*** crazy and you want to lump me into that group?! Can you see why that is insulting? While they may claim to be Catholic and following Catholic doctrine, they are not. I don't share any of their criminal beliefs. But you want to tell me to find another life? Why? These people are f***ing crazy.

[Texsox]

Your arguments are way off base, but I'll humor you to show you the glaring difference.

 

If Whitman did that in the NAME of the Boy Scouts, or Ligue did it in the NAME of all Sox fans, then those groups have a responsibility to publically say that they do NOT support or condone those actions.

 

This isn't terrorism from people who just happen to be Muslim, it's terrorism in the NAME of all Islam. Therefore it's the leaders of Islams' responsibility to refute their actions.

 

Listen, a couple of young girls tried killing a friend because of their belief in slenderman. Again, we know that is crazy and there was something wrong with them. If they said they believed in Jesus, why would you think they were sane and the responsibility of the church?

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/slender-man-stabbing

[Y2HH]

Listen, a couple of young girls tried killing a friend because of their belief in slenderman. Again, we know that is crazy and there was something wrong with them. If they said they believed in Jesus, why would you think they were sane and the responsibility of the church?

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/slender-man-stabbing

 

If it became a common occurrence, YES, that's exactly what he's saying.

 

This isn't one or two nuts running around killing people. There is an ENTIRE sub-section of that religion that does this.

 

If Ligue, since you brought up the example, suddenly had a devout following and on a weekly basis one of those morons stormed the field to beat up an umpire, YES, at that point I do believe the fans have a responsibility to put a stop to that s***, as well as the Sox brass. And if they refused to do anything about it, and stood around in apathy and watched it happen, I'd absolutely divorce myself from that team, and I'd no longer be a fan.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Y2HH

[LDF]

Listen, a couple of young girls tried killing a friend because of their belief in slenderman. Again, we know that is crazy and there was something wrong with them. If they said they believed in Jesus, why would you think they were sane and the responsibility of the church?

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/slender-man-stabbing

 

you are trying to spin it.....

 

the islamic radical have a history of doing crazy crap and yes some craze clerical even

supported it.

 

this is about the stupidity of violence and trying to stupid way of these so called

religious radicals justifying their actions. '

 

i am thru

[Y2HH]

Allow me to try a different way.

 

 

John Hinckley tried killing Reagan in the name of Jodie Foster. Any sane person understands that Jodie Foster didn't have anything to do with it, yet if he said he did it for Jesus Christ or Mohammed you want everyone of that faith and every church leader to condemn the attack?! It's the same s***. The people are crazy, the misinterpret a religion, use it as an excuse, whatever, that shouldn't taint the rest of the people in that church. Anymore than any other group. Boy Scouts, Elks, Masons, Democrats, Republicans, all have a shared set of beliefs, something that binds them, if someone says they are killing someone because of a group like that we all understand that isn't the case, they are just crazy. But if they say a religious group, BOOM! everyone on the group is wrong. Why can't we accept that crazy people do crazy s*** and try to justify it by many different means.

 

Why the f*** an I responsible for something someone does just because they claim to believe the same thing I do, when in fact they do not? If some crazed individual falsely believes the Catholic faith requires him to kill abortion doctors, why am I responsible? You are taking a tiny minority of people and insulting the rest of us. These people who commit these crimes are bat s*** crazy and you want to lump me into that group?! Can you see why that is insulting? While they may claim to be Catholic and following Catholic doctrine, they are not. I don't share any of their criminal beliefs. But you want to tell me to find another life? Why? These people are f***ing crazy.

 

You're responsible if you look away and never put a stop to it, or denounce it in a VERY loud, very official manner, repeatedly. Killing in the name of Islam isn't some fringe thing where a few guys get the wrong message carried out some heinous acts...they are literally TEACHING that s***, and certain countries around the world are KNOWN to harbor these "cells" where they're teaching/training/brainwashing people to think exactly that way.

 

If the Catholic church had an evil faction spun off of it, and little cells of Catholic hate started popping up at random places of the world teaching that bulls***, the Vatican sure as hell has the responsibility to do something about it, and so does EVERY follower of that religion. And if you can't put a stop to it, then maybe you have to reevaluate your religion as a whole.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Y2HH

[Texsox]

You're responsible if you look away and never put a stop to it, or denounce it in a VERY loud, very official manner, repeatedly. Killing in the name of Islam isn't some fringe thing where a few guys get the wrong message carried out some heinous acts...they are literally TEACHING that s***, and certain countries around the world are KNOWN to harbor these "cells" where they're teaching/training/brainwashing people to think exactly that way.

 

If the Catholic church had an evil faction spun off of it, and little cells of Catholic hate started popping up at random places of the world teaching that bulls***, the Vatican sure as hell has the responsibility to do something about it, and so does EVERY follower of that religion. And if you can't put a stop to it, then maybe you have to reevaluate your religion as a whole.

 

Thank you. SPUN OFF OF IT. What does off of it mean to you? To me it means not on, not a part of, it is off not on. Hmm, why would they spin off of it? perhaps IT isn't preaching what they want?

 

So you believe that 1.3 BILLION people on the planet, 23% of the world's population, are being taught weekly to kill non Muslims and to perpetrate this acts of terrorism? Wow, how do you sleep at night?

 

And if churches are responsible for every act of their members, even ones that spin off, who is responsible for the non religious and what they do? Or do you get off without any responsibility? Where do the non religious learn to kill and commit acts of terrorism?

 

How about everyone is expected to not look the other way and to denounce it? Why is that my responsibility and not yours?

 

We can't put a stop to gang violence in this country, maybe we should reevaluate our citizenship as a whole. Stop criminals? Seriously? You are kidding right? Name when that has ever happened by anyone? And you expect a religion with 1.3 billion followers to do that? Wow.

[Y2HH]

Thank you. SPUN OFF OF IT. What does off of it mean to you? To me it means not on, not a part of, it is off not on. Hmm, why would they spin off of it? perhaps IT isn't preaching what they want?

 

So you believe that 1.3 BILLION people on the planet, 23% of the world's population, are being taught weekly to kill non Muslims and to perpetrate this acts of terrorism? Wow, how do you sleep at night?

 

And if churches are responsible for every act of their members, even ones that spin off, who is responsible for the non religious and what they do? Or do you get off without any responsibility? Where do the non religious learn to kill and commit acts of terrorism?

 

How about everyone is expected to not look the other way and to denounce it? Why is that my responsibility and not your?

 

At first it's a spinoff, but if it's allowed to exist and grow, a time will come where nobody will know where your version of that religion ends and the corrupted one begins. And while I don't know exact numbers, and I sure as hell don't think its 1.3 billion, I do know if you continue to let them teach that corrupted version of Islam, someday, it WILL be 1.3 million, or billion...give it enough time to let them continue teaching that bulls*** and see what happens.

 

I don't care what they do, be it X, Y, or Z in the name of whatever made up bulls*** you want to call it, if a sub-section of people spring and begin teaching this kind of hate in countries/classrooms, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE. You don't just ignore it and hope for the best.

 

And it is EVERYONES responsibility, and all because you people insist on believing in fake floating men in the sky that tell you to be good, or tell you to be evil. They're not telling me anything...I'm good because I want to be...I don't need anyone to tell me to be.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Y2HH

[Balta1701]

Spinoffs are still related. You have to get rid of them, through ridicule, or through force, either way, they can't be allowed to spread and grow that bulls*** "spin off". If you allow it, then you've allowed your entire religion to be corrupted.

 

And I don't know exact numbers, and I sure as hell don't think its 1.3 billion, so I'm not sure where you get that. But I do know if you continue to let them teach that corrupted version of Islam, someday, it WILL be 1.3 billion...give it enough time to let them continue teaching that bulls*** and see what happens.

 

I don't care what they do X Y or Z in the name of, if a sub-section of people spring up to the point where they're teaching this kind of hate in countries, and these countries are known to harbor and cultivate that kind of s***, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE. You don't just ignore it and hope for the best.

 

And it is EVERYONES responsibility, and all because you people insist on believing in fake floating men in the sky that tell you to be good, or tell you to be evil. They're not telling me anything...I'm good because I want to be...I don't need anyone to tell me to be.

But what you still won't do is stop and ask why these places spend their time and money teaching this ideology. Something needs to be done as long as it doesn't involve anyone having to stop filling up their gas tanks. That's too big of a sacrifice.

[Y2HH]

But what you still won't do is stop and ask why these places spend their time and money teaching this ideology. Something needs to be done as long as it doesn't involve anyone having to stop filling up their gas tanks. That's too big of a sacrifice.

 

I sure as hell ask why ANYONE teaches ANY made up bulls*** religion.

[Balta1701]

I sure as hell ask why ANYONE teaches ANY made up bulls*** religion.

In that area, it's the same reason it has been for decades...it's a way to keep the heat off the oil-rich oligarchies and on something else. It's the west's fault, it's Israel's fault, its this other sect's fault that there are no jobs. And frankly, it works. The west gets their oil and the wealthy still have the money for it.

 

Those are the 2 important things. The rest, the terrorism/killings, those are minor annoyances as long as there is still flowing oil.

[Texsox]

Which Catholics am I responsible for?

 

Ones who were never baptized but their parents were Catholic and if asked will check off Catholic?

The ones whose parents baptized them in the church and they have not been back, but check off Catholic if asked?

The ones who registered once and haven't been to church in years and years?

Catholics that only attend mass on Easter, Christmas, or when convenient?

Catholics who attend most of the time?

Those who attend all of the time?

Those that agree with 75% of the doctrine but not all?

Those that call themselves Catholic but have been kicked out?

All Christians no matter what denomination?

 

I need to know who to denounce. It seems by your rules as long as they say Catholic, it is my fault.

 

 

 

 

[Y2HH]

In that area, it's the same reason it has been for decades...it's a way to keep the heat off the oil-rich oligarchies and on something else. It's the west's fault, it's Israel's fault, its this other sect's fault that there are no jobs. And frankly, it works. The west gets their oil and the wealthy still have the money for it.

 

Those are the 2 important things. The rest, the terrorism/killings, those are minor annoyances as long as there is still flowing oil.

 

Sadly, you are probably right -- to a degree -- but anytime you involve religion in a conversation, it complicates things because invoking it means you aren't using reason.

 

I have nothing against believing in something. Hell, I believe in something. I'm just not sure what. A prime mover maybe? What I don't believe in, or condone, is believing in some man made written bulls***, which is exactly what all of these "accepted" religions are. They are ALL as ridiculous as Scientology as far as I'm concerned.

 

Edit: I originally said I have nothing against the religious...and I do to a point, so I reworded it.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Y2HH

[Y2HH]

Which Catholics am I responsible for?

 

Ones who were never baptized but their parents were Catholic and if asked will check off Catholic?

The ones whose parents baptized them in the church and they have not been back, but check off Catholic if asked?

The ones who registered once and haven't been to church in years and years?

Catholics that only attend mass on Easter, Christmas, or when convenient?

Catholics who attend most of the time?

Those who attend all of the time?

Those that agree with 75% of the doctrine but not all?

Those that call themselves Catholic but have been kicked out?

All Christians no matter what denomination?

 

I need to know who to denounce. It seems by your rules as long as they say Catholic, it is my fault.

 

Ok, to be serious and NOT play devils advocate...I grew up Catholic. Baptized, confession/communion, attended Catholic school, etc...and I know there is a part of me that still believes in something, but as I stated in a previous post, I've come to call my "God" the prime mover, the creator of the universe, whatever that is or was, be it a being, or an event. I don't pretend to what it is or was, either, but I believe in it, so that's my faith, and therefore, that's my "God".

 

Many things made me fall out of favor with that religion [Catholicism], and the older I got the more I came to despise some of it's teachings, AND the being they tell us to praise throughout the Bible. And the same can be applied to any/all other 'written' religions. I have no issues with spirituality or faith, but I do have a problem with people following something created by men thousands of years ago and just 'accepting' it. Feel free to believe in something higher than us, or better than us, or that steers you in a way to better yourself and those around you ... but whatever that thing is, it's not what they wrote about in that book, or ANY of those books.

 

In short, I can't tell you who to denounce...only you can. I, personally, denounce anyone that believes in written religions, but especially the insane that do so in the name of evil.

 

Edit: I usually avoid discussions of religion because I know it's not going to be productive. To those that believe, no explanation is necessary. To those that don't believe, no explanation will do. I realize and recognize I fall into the latter camp, and therefore this discussion will end up going nowhere good.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Y2HH

[Texsox]

Ok, to be serious and NOT play devils advocate...I grew up Catholic. Baptized, etc...and I know there is a part of me that still believes in something, and as I stated in a previous post, I've come to call my "God" that prime mover, whatever that is or was, be it a being, or an event. I don't know what it is or was, but I believe in it, so that's my faith, and therefore, that's my "God".

 

Many things made me fall out of favor with that religion [Catholicism], and the older I got the more I came to despise some of it's teachings, AND the being they tell us to praise throughout the Bible. And the same can be applied to any/all other 'written' religions. I have no issues with spirituality or faith, but I do have a problem with people following something created by men thousands of years ago and just 'accepting' it. Feel free to believe in something higher than us, or better than us, or that steers you in a way to better yourself and those around you ... but whatever that thing is, it's not what they wrote about in that book.

 

We all "just accept" something, that's part of faith. Even science in this debate requires you to accept something. Usually we believe for something to be scientific fact we should be able to recreate it in an experiment, independent of anyone else. We can't do that with the origin of life. There is a theory that a never to be duplicated event happened on this planet and life began. I find that believable. If we believe that our universe has boundaries, that it doesn't go on for eternity, we accept that there is something on the other side. Is it bigger, smaller, the same? Does it have the same rules of physics? Carbon based life? Water? Gravity? We will probably never know. People that never ponder questions like this, are "just accepting" a scientific theory which also cannot be proven.

 

I find religion as is practiced here, to have value in my life. Others do not. I believe in equality for both groups. This argument stems from whether I should have some additional responsibility to stop everyone who may commit a crime and do that in a religion's name. That is not equality. That is one group of people, naively believing that everyone in a church thinks and acts the same. That a religious leader has complete control over anyone in the world who may say they belong to that religion.

 

Based on the comments here, if you committed some heinous crime and claim you did it because you were Catholic, the church automatically becomes responsible for your actions. I believe you are responsible for your actions. Everyone should denounce those actions. And with all the crime in the world today, some just don't have twenty-four hours a day to denounce all crimes. Instead, as a Catholic and Christian I practice my beliefs and speak out on issues that are important to me. If they aren't the same ones that you care about, why am I wrong?

[Balta1701]

We all "just accept" something, that's part of faith. Even science in this debate requires you to accept something. Usually we believe for something to be scientific fact we should be able to recreate it in an experiment, independent of anyone else. We can't do that with the origin of life. There is a theory that a never to be duplicated event happened on this planet and life began. I find that believable. If we believe that our universe has boundaries, that it doesn't go on for eternity, we accept that there is something on the other side. Is it bigger, smaller, the same? Does it have the same rules of physics? Carbon based life? Water? Gravity? We will probably never know. People that never ponder questions like this, are "just accepting" a scientific theory which also cannot be proven.

Totally off topic, but its worth considering just how weak of an argument this is. Literally all it takes to have it demolished is evidence of life beginning somewhere else or an actual experiment that produces it abiotically. What happens to your faith when that happens? If your faith is only based on there being something we don't currently know, and then someone figures that out, does that invalidate your faith permanently?

 

What science actually requires us to believe is this one statement...the universe behaves in a predictable way, subject to rules that we can understand. Gravity doesn't change in unpredictable ways, we don't suddenly double in mass, carbon bonds the same way one day as it does the next day, and if we characterize that one day, it works the next day also.

[Y2HH]

We all "just accept" something, that's part of faith. Even science in this debate requires you to accept something. Usually we believe for something to be scientific fact we should be able to recreate it in an experiment, independent of anyone else. We can't do that with the origin of life. There is a theory that a never to be duplicated event happened on this planet and life began. I find that believable. If we believe that our universe has boundaries, that it doesn't go on for eternity, we accept that there is something on the other side. Is it bigger, smaller, the same? Does it have the same rules of physics? Carbon based life? Water? Gravity? We will probably never know. People that never ponder questions like this, are "just accepting" a scientific theory which also cannot be proven.

 

I find religion as is practiced here, to have value in my life. Others do not. I believe in equality for both groups. This argument stems from whether I should have some additional responsibility to stop everyone who may commit a crime and do that in a religion's name. That is not equality. That is one group of people, naively believing that everyone in a church thinks and acts the same. That a religious leader has complete control over anyone in the world who may say they belong to that religion.

 

Based on the comments here, if you committed some heinous crime and claim you did it because you were Catholic, the church automatically becomes responsible for your actions. I believe you are responsible for your actions. Everyone should denounce those actions. And with all the crime in the world today, some just don't have twenty-four hours a day to denounce all crimes. Instead, as a Catholic and Christian I practice my beliefs and speak out on issues that are important to me. If they aren't the same ones that you care about, why am I wrong?

 

I think it's a bit more complicated than this, but as a whole I'd say I agree with a lot of what you said here about faith, religion and science.

 

However, I think Islam has a bit of a unique problem in the modern world. I don't think random acts of violence should be attributed to the whole...but when your religion [islam] actually has sects that have buildings/places/countries where they teach a corrupted version of your faith, THEN I believe you, as a Muslim, absolutely have the responsibility to denounce that "version" at every turn, and the leadership of said religion, whoever they may be, must do so on a daily basis...INCLUDING turning them in to authorities, instead of harboring them (which a LOT of those Muslim countries are doing). They know who they are, they know WHERE they are, and they hide them/harbor them, and in some instances, these are LEADERS of that faith.

 

The Catholics have their own modern issue with protecting child molesting priests by trying to cover it up...and it's ONE of the many reasons I distanced myself from said religion...the fact that goes on, and the fact that it's been shown the LEADERSHIP has helped cover it up in some instances means I needed to reevaluate and walk away.

[Balta1701]

However, I think Islam has a bit of a unique problem in the modern world. I don't think random acts of violence should be attributed to the whole...but when your religion [islam] actually has sects that have buildings/places/countries where they teach a corrupted version of your faith, THEN I believe you, as a Muslim, absolutely have the responsibility to denounce that "version" at every turn, and the leadership of said religion, whoever they may be, must do so on a daily basis...INCLUDING turning them in to authorities, instead of harboring them (which a LOT of those Muslim countries are doing). They know who they are, they know WHERE they are, and they hide them/harbor them, and in some instances, these are LEADERS of that faith.

And if many of them are doing exactly that but you don't see them or choose not to see it happening, what does that say about you?

[Texsox]

I think it's a bit more complicated than this, but as a whole I'd say I agree with a lot of what you said here about faith, religion and science.

 

However, I think Islam has a bit of a unique problem in the modern world. I don't think random acts of violence should be attributed to the whole...but when your religion [islam] actually has sects that have buildings/places/countries where they teach a corrupted version of your faith, THEN I believe you, as a Muslim, absolutely have the responsibility to denounce that "version" at every turn, and the leadership of said religion, whoever they may be, must do so on a daily basis...INCLUDING turning them in to authorities, instead of harboring them (which a LOT of those Muslim countries are doing). They know who they are, they know WHERE they are, and they hide them/harbor them, and in some instances, these are LEADERS of that faith.

 

The Catholics have their own modern issue with protecting child molesting priests by trying to cover it up...and it's ONE of the many reasons I distanced myself from said religion...the fact that goes on, and the fact that it's been shown the LEADERSHIP has helped cover it up in some instances means I needed to reevaluate and walk away.

 

But then it is no longer your faith, it is as you described a corrupted version.

 

Sorry, using your own example the church can't allow you to just walk away. The Catholic church is still responsible for you no matter what. Even if you leave to practice a corrupted version (or no version) you believe the church leaders and practitioners such as myself, should still have responsibility for you. So how can the church prevent you from committing a crime? You want the mainstream church to be responsible for anyone who claims to be part of that church, even those who leave to practice a corrupt version. That just doesn't make sense to me.