Sox sign Dayan Viciedo, 1 year $4.4mil

[chitownsportsfan]

What's the Sox payroll at now that Viciedo's 4.4 million is set now?

 

It's not set, if they cut him before the 25 man roster date in early April he's only due 750k.

[Balta1701]

It's not set, if they cut him before the 25 man roster date in early April he's only due 750k.

Are we sure this is true since this is a contract and not an arbitration settlement?

[southsider2k5]

Are we sure this is true since this is a contract and not an arbitration settlement?

 

I would imagine the first is true. I would have to guess that the only way the 20% happens if it an arbitrator awards the contract.

[LDF]

Not astronomical, but it's probably more than his value. Delmon Young is a very comparable player overall and he had to settle for a 1 year, $3 million deal.

 

Really though, teams are paying $6-7 million in the free agent market for 1 WAR players. If some team out there believes he can improve defensively to the point where he's not a total liability and they feel they can get him to hit .250 or .260, he'd be worth it. At this point, those both seem like long shots.

 

yeah but people are forgetting who DV agent is.

[Vance Law]

It's not set, if they cut him before the 25 man roster date in early April he's only due 750k.

 

It is apparently not quite that cut and dried.

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2015/1/13/7536...d-inevitability

[southsider2k5]

It is apparently not quite that cut and dried.

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2015/1/13/7536...d-inevitability

 

The key

 

a player awarded a contract in arbitration

[chitownsportsfan]

The key

 

a player tendered in arbitration

 

Yep, of course this isn't the case with Dayan, who avoided arbitration. The guy that runs that blog is such a putz, his own f***ing source says this, and it's "so rare" he quickly found two cases of it last year, I don't know if that's rare. I'd say it's closer to "unusual but hardly unheard of"

 

There aren't a whole lot of opportunities to see this play out, because it's unusual for teams to tender a contract to an arbitration-eligible player and cut him before he plays another official game. I could only find two last year:

 

Emilio Bonifacio: The Royals signed him to a $3.5 million contract for 2014, then DFA'd him on Feb. 1 to make room for Bruce Chen. He was released, then signed a split contract with the Cubs. He earned a spot on the 25-man roster and thus earned $2.5 million. He also received 30 days' pay from the Royals per the CBA ($573, 771). There is no record of a grievance.

 

Juan Francisco: The Brewers pulled a late-spring surprise by releasing Francisco just as they were about to leave Arizona. Because they made the move within the last two weeks of spring training, they were on the hook for 45 days' pay, or $337,500 of his $1.35 million contract. He then signed a minor-league deal with the Blue Jays, earned a spot on the roster in late April and stuck for the rest of the season. There is also no record of a grievance.

 

The Sox have nothing to lose by stringing this out as long as they can. Injuries happen all the time in spring. Who knows what a team will offer in March? If nobody offers s*** you just cut him or hey it's a "go for it" year and he's kept around as insurance.

 

Whatever, the entire tone of SSS' coverage on the Viciedo contract has been off, and this just continues it.

 

SSS also says "the whole thing has a feeling of inevitability". GMAFB. The only thing has an air of inevitability is that thanks to all the improvements this offseason Viciedo's status will play out in a rather inconsequential matter this season. Thank goodness.

Edited January 14, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[Douglas Rome]

4mil for a slug is obscene. I just shake my head over these ridiculous

contracts; it ain't my money, or is it? thanks, douglas

 

I'm going to start a new thread about ball player's money

[LDF]

 

Douglas, at first i thought you to be a troll. i am really happy you have

shown me that you are not. i would like to take this time a apologize.

 

keep up the good post.

 

[Texsox]

4mil for a slug is obscene. I just shake my head over these ridiculous

contracts; it ain't my money, or is it? thanks, douglas

 

I'm going to start a new thread about ball player's money

 

No thank you Dougles

With all the gross revenues coming in and teams wanting to win "for the fans", spending the money for talent is probably the right thing to do. They could roll back ticket prices but Sox fans have proven that if the team is not winning $1 tickets won't even sell. I believe the best way to look at it is how does that contract compare to other players that other teams are paying. And it isn't really out of line. As they say "it's good paying work if you can get it". He's probably one of the top 1,000 baseball players in the world right now, out of four billion people, that ain't too shabby.

[Dick Allen]

Why is spending $2 million for Paulino, $3 million for Belisario and $4 million for Scott Downs, smart, reasonablY cheap lottery ticket type deals, but risking basically less than $1 million and at most $4.4 million for a 25 year old with Viciedo's power, just a total waste of money?

[Y2HH]

Why is spending $2 million for Paulino, $3 million for Belisario and $4 million for Scott Downs, smart, reasonablY cheap lottery ticket type deals, but risking basically less than $1 million and at most $4.4 million for a 25 year old with Viciedo's power, just a total waste of money?

 

Because the ONLY thing Viciedo offers is power, and it's power he rarely gets to show because he doesn't make solid contact.

 

He can't field.

 

He can't walk.

 

He can't run.

 

He can't even speak.

[Y2Jimmy0]

4mil for a slug is obscene. I just shake my head over these ridiculous

contracts; it ain't my money, or is it? thanks, douglas

 

I'm going to start a new thread about ball player's money

 

 

Greg? Did you move to Elburn and not tell anyone?

[Dick Allen]

Because the ONLY thing Viciedo offers is power, and it's power he rarely gets to show because he doesn't make solid contact.

 

He can't field.

 

He can't walk.

 

He can't run.

 

He can't even speak.

And if the Sox traded someone decent for Pedro Alvarez, who basically is pretty much the same, and the Sox paid him a million or so more, the same gripers would say it was well worth the gamble, and would say he wasn't so expensive.

 

People value other teams' crap a lot more than they value the White Sox crap. That is certain.

[Dick Allen]

You may talk about Felipe Paulino more than his own mother.

 

You're not risking 1 million on a lottery ticket. You're risking the 1 million to get a potential return in trade. Maybe they end up keeping him, but it won't be a great expenditure. There's no role for Viciedo on this team. Why pay him 4.4 million to sit on the bench? The guys you mentioned were all paid less and had clear cut roles.

And we have learned over the years that the line up that starts opening day is usually the one that is there game 162.

 

You are still taking a shot Viciedo figures it out. I still think he will get traded, but there is at least as much of a chance he will help you win in 2015 as there was with any of the 3 guys I mentioned, when no one seemed to have a problem with the Sox spending $9 million on that crap.

[Dick Allen]

Hindsight is a valuable tool.

?

 

For a guy who says I mention Paulino more than his mother, you would think you would know all hindsight did is validate my original thought about him.

 

 

Again, the Sox spend $9 million on a 40 year old LOOGY, a non tender middle reliever from the NL, and a guy who pitched about 20 innings in AAA the season previously after surgery. Betting under a $1 million , and at most $4.4 million on a 25 year old guy who can hit the ball a mile is no greater risk. In fact, IMO, it is far less risky. Paying Zach Duke $15 million the next 3 years based on 40 or so really good innings in 2014 blows that risk away, yet some who hate Viciedo, gave that signing kudos.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

?

 

For a guy who says I mention Paulino more than his mother, you would think you would know all hindsight did is validate my original thought about him.

 

 

Again, the Sox spend $9 million on a 40 year old LOOGY, a non tender middle reliever from the NL, and a guy who pitched about 20 innings in AAA the season previously after surgery. Betting under a $1 million , and at most $4.4 million on a 25 year old guy who can hit the ball a mile is no greater risk. In fact, IMO, it is far less risky.

The big difference is that there was playing time available for the other guys to show whether or not they were worth anything and I'm not sure that's available for Viciedo. If he returns to his 2012 "Hitting lefties very well" form there will be, but if he continues his 2014 "not hitting anyone" form, I don't know why you'd even use him as a pinch hitter.

[Dick Allen]

The big difference is that there was playing time available for the other guys to show whether or not they were worth anything and I'm not sure that's available for Viciedo. If he returns to his 2012 "Hitting lefties very well" form there will be, but if he continues his 2014 "not hitting anyone" form, I don't know why you'd even use him as a pinch hitter.

If Viciedo shows he can hit at least lefties, playing time will be found. Or, if things are going so well, a guy who can hit lefties can't find playing time, another team will have a spot. If he can't hit, he won't play. It will hurt you as much financially as Scott Downs did in 2014. Jeff Keppinger will be getting paid more to go fishing. I still think he winds up on another team.

[southsider2k5]

?

 

For a guy who says I mention Paulino more than his mother, you would think you would know all hindsight did is validate my original thought about him.

 

 

Again, the Sox spend $9 million on a 40 year old LOOGY, a non tender middle reliever from the NL, and a guy who pitched about 20 innings in AAA the season previously after surgery. Betting under a $1 million , and at most $4.4 million on a 25 year old guy who can hit the ball a mile is no greater risk. In fact, IMO, it is far less risky. Paying Zach Duke $15 million the next 3 years based on 40 or so really good innings in 2014 blows that risk away, yet some who hate Viciedo, gave that signing kudos.

 

Again, only if an arbitrator awards a contract is this scenario true. The Sox are currently on the hook for $4.4 million.

[Dick Allen]

Again, only if an arbitrator awards a contract is this scenario true. The Sox are currently on the hook for $4.4 million.

You are not correct about it having to be awarded by an arbitrator, but you may be correct about him being guaranteed the entire amount, although I doubt it. He may have signed a guarantee, but usually these guys with the one year deals do not. There is some sort of 45 day or 90 day payout if they are released at a certain point.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2015 by Dick Allen

[witesoxfan]

And we have learned over the years that the line up that starts opening day is usually the one that is there game 162.

 

You are still taking a shot Viciedo figures it out. I still think he will get traded, but there is at least as much of a chance he will help you win in 2015 as there was with any of the 3 guys I mentioned, when no one seemed to have a problem with the Sox spending $9 million on that crap.

 

As Balta mentioned, I think there are some differences in the money allocated last year as opposed to this year, but I generally agree with your premise. Really, $4.4 million is not a significant figure and if $4.4 million is going to be the difference between the Sox being able to get someone or not, then they've gone way over budget anyways.

 

If they can't find anything worthy of trading him for, they'll keep him. If they can't find him at bats, they will release him. If they feel they can find ways of working him into the lineup, he'll stick around and be a guy. In today's environment, this is a rather low cost move.

[southsider2k5]

You are not correct.

 

Every source I am reading very specifically states the arbitrator awarded contract is not guaranteed, and the player can be released for only 30 days or 45 days worth of his salary, depending on his exact release date.

 

If you have proof otherwise, I would like to see it.

[Dick Allen]

Every source I am reading very specifically states the arbitrator awarded contract is not guaranteed, and the player can be released for only 30 days or 45 days worth of his salary, depending on his exact release date.

 

If you have proof otherwise, I would like to see it.

Here is the Basic Agreement. Go to page 33 and 34. I am certain the same type of guarantee applies to the contract Viciedo signed or it really makes little sense not to go to arbitration.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf

Edited January 14, 2015 by Dick Allen

[Dick Allen]

I don't have your past posts at my disposal? I just don't see why you need to keep bringing up Paulino. Downs was one of the most consistent LHRP in baseball when he was signed. Paulino was signed for peanuts and at least had a decent arm. Belisario was incredibly unlucky in 2014 and while he's not a feature arm in the pen, whoever signs him on the low will be happy with that pick up.

 

FWIW, my only gripe this offseason is the money they spent on RP. It's one school of thought on building a bullpen, just not the one I subscribe to. So were not in complete disagreement.

I went to about 50 games in 2014, and watch probably over another 100. If you want to say Belisario was incredibly unlucky, fine. I don't agree. But, if you want to base things on the saber stuff saying unlucky, guess who else you would have to consider unlucky in 2014? Dayan Viciedo.

[southsider2k5]

Here is the Basic Agreement. Go to page 33 and 34. I am certain the same type of guarantee applies to the contract Viciedo signed.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/pa/pdf/cba_english.pdf

 

A Player who is tendered a Uniform Player’s Contract which is subse-

quently terminated by a Club during the period between the end of the

championship season and the beginning of the next succeeding spring

training under paragraph 7(b)(2) of the Uniform Player’s Contract for

failure to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability shall be entitled

to receive termination pay from the Club in an amount equal to thirty

(30) days’ payment at the rate stipulated in paragraph 2 of (1) his Con-

tract for the next succeeding championship season, or (2) if he has no

contract for the next succeeding championship season, in an amount

33

equal to thirty (30) days’ payment at the rate stipulated in paragraph 2

of the Contract tendered to him by his Club for the next succeeding

championship season.

 

Viciedo wasn't tendered a contract. He also has a contract for the next season now. You can only tender contracts to pre-arb players and to players awarded deal through arb.

 

Otherwise the Sox could have terminated Dunn's deal for 30 days salary in 2012, and there is no reason under God's green earth this wouldn't have been done.