American Sniper

[Brian]

I have yet to see it, probably will tomorrow, but there has been some conversation of what the movie portrays. Not just Kyle but gun society, the country's mindset about war, etc...

 

Michael Moore, who I agree with on some stuff, really stuck his foot in his mouth, saying "Snipers are cowards." Not even his explanation makes sense.

 

Seth Rogen tweeted something about how it reminded him of the Nazi propoganda film at the end of Inglorious Basterds,

 

http://www.hitfix.com/motion-captured/why-...ut+the+military

 

I was just hoping to go see a good movie, not I may get sidetracked in how I watch it. I mean it is Clint Eastwood who is very pro NRA and conservative.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Speaking of IB, I'm watching a movie with Melanie Laurent and Jake Gyllenhaal called "Enemy" that's really creepy like Nightcrawler...some websites list it as the best movie of the year that earned under $10 million.

 

 

As far as American Sniper goes, I think the main reason that comment was made (by Moore) was because of the fact that a family member was killed by a sniper during WWII...the idea that it's not heroic to shoot someone from a long distance/with their back turned, etc.

 

I'm not sure that there's much of a political statement there. The movie is too straightforward for that. The only "counterpoint" about the country's "war mindset" is a minute long conversation with his brother who he randomly comes across on a deployment and his brother pointedly questions why he's there and what the mission is...for Chris himself, the point of his survival is not getting bogged down in thinking at all, essentially. Almost like a robotic killing machine, with the exception he has to assess threats, make split-second responses and be held accountable for his actions in real life, unlike a computer simulation. While some of the scenes have the feel of propaganda, there's enough of a moral quandary bent when you have to take out women and children to protect your guys that I'm not sure most moviegoers would choose to be in those same shoes.

 

Of course, there's the obligatory 9/11 scenes to serve as motivation, but it's nothing we haven't been through 1000 times with the likes of the Pat Tillman Story.

 

Personally, I feel that Gran Torino was considerably better than A.S., even though its subject matter and bleakness made it a difficult watch for some.

 

 

 

Big Men....great documentary about oil and capitalism, should be a case study in every business school

 

Our Brand is Crisis....if you're interested in shows like West Wing, House of Cards, read The War Room or want to know what political consultants do in off election years in the US, this is your documentary

Edited January 20, 2015 by caulfield12

[Brian]

Oh God. If Gran Torino turns out to be better than American Sniper, I'm in for one awful movie. Torino was brutal to me.

 

I don't know if this will turn into the Filibuster Movie Thread, but can't wait to see CitizenFour. Will debut on HBO after Oscars. My buddy said it's one of the most intense movies he's seen in recent memory.

 

And to call ANYONE who goes to the Middle East to fight a war a coward, is garbage to me. Even the medics. They are all leaving their families and risking their lives.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Brian

[caulfield12]

American Sniper isn't awful, but it's far from great.

 

I'll leave it at that.

 

As far as Citizenfour goes, lots of polarizing opinions there as well. Some say because of unpolished editing, that it's quite the opposite of tension-filled and suspenseful. Supposedly it does give us a little bit more sense about Snowden the man (and his motives), but he's still largely a mystery.

 

 

As to the coward comment, I'm sure Moore would say it ONLY applies to snipers, that he didn't mean it to be extended to infantry, nurses/medics, etc.

Edited January 20, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

the best way to see the movie is with an open mind. this movie is

a movie based on 1 person action and his somewhat mindset that

made him the top sniper in america.

 

now if the action of the use of a sniper, well that is a tragedy that

made the use of them b/c the USA is using what it can to help save

military life. the USA were the not the first and i am sure we will not

be the last. if people want the military to stop using snipers, then

find a way idiots will stop attacking the USA.

 

Chris reason is not solely his own reasons, but other have had that

patriotic reason, if that was the reason. who is to judge.

 

as in all films there is prob embellishment and some story telling,

but come on, this is a movie.

 

look at the latest movie Exodus: Gods and Kings, they me if that

is all true accounts, or ten commandments, story of christ.

 

i think you get my point. it is a movie.

[RockRaines]

I thought it was good and Cooper was amazing

 

Moore doesn't know the difference between WW2 and today's wars apparently so maybe we should send him out into an urban warfare area. It's pretty clear in the movie that Kyles duty was to protect his frontline guys. Nothing cowardly about that.

[LDF]

I thought it was good and Cooper was amazing

 

Moore doesn't know the difference between WW2 and today's wars apparently so maybe we should send him out into an urban warfare area. It's pretty clear in the movie that Kyles duty was to protect his frontline guys. Nothing cowardly about that.

 

snipers in war serves a purpose, whether it is understood or not.

 

like all things, it can be abuse.

 

perfect example. the killing SS-General Reinhard Heydrich in WW 2.

the results was brutal by Hilter, but it was needed. Heydrich was to be

the 2 nd german dictator if hilter was killed or the army took over.

 

heydrich was more brutal than hilter, snipers group, commando took

his out.

[Rowand44]

. Torino was brutal to me.

You're dead to me.

[southsider2k5]

Michael Moore who conducts surprise interviews on people to catch them off balance, along with misleading and lies about what he wants to ask, plus some selective editing of those interviews for his films, should be an expert on exactly what a coward is.

[Milkman delivers]

Michael Moore is not someone I'm listening to when the topic of courage/cowardice is being discussed.

 

Speaking of IB, I'm watching a movie with Melanie Laurent and Jake Gyllenhaal called "Enemy" that's really creepy like Nightcrawler...some websites list it as the best movie of the year that earned under $10 million.

 

Of course, there's the obligatory 9/11 scenes to serve as motivation, but it's nothing we haven't been through 1000 times with the likes of the Pat Tillman Story.

 

What is IB? And I don't think the 9/11 scenes were specifically propaganda (they weren't very long), as much as building a narrative and explaining where he'd be deployed.

 

American Sniper isn't awful, but it's far from great.

 

Completely agree. And I liked Gran Torino a lot. C'mon, Brian.

 

the best way to see the movie is with an open mind. this movie is

a movie based on 1 person action and his somewhat mindset that

made him the top sniper in america.

 

now if the action of the use of a sniper, well that is a tragedy that

made the use of them b/c the USA is using what it can to help save

military life. the USA were the not the first and i am sure we will not

be the last. if people want the military to stop using snipers, then

find a way idiots will stop attacking the USA.

 

Chris reason is not solely his own reasons, but other have had that

patriotic reason, if that was the reason. who is to judge.

 

as in all films there is prob embellishment and some story telling,

but come on, this is a movie.

 

look at the latest movie Exodus: Gods and Kings, they me if that

is all true accounts, or ten commandments, story of christ.

 

i think you get my point. it is a movie.

 

Not really. I can hardly grasp what you're saying most of the time with the layout of your posts.

[LDF]

Michael Moore is not someone I'm listening to when the topic of courage/cowardice is being discussed.

 

 

 

What is IB? And I don't think the 9/11 scenes were specifically propaganda (they weren't very long), as much as building a narrative and explaining where he'd be deployed.

 

 

 

Completely agree. And I liked Gran Torino a lot. C'mon, Brian.

 

 

 

Not really. I can hardly grasp what you're saying most of the time with the layout of your posts.

 

oh well no one is perfect.

 

 

[Milkman delivers]

snipers in war serves a purpose, whether it is understood or not.

 

like all things, it can be abuse.

 

perfect example. the killing SS-General Reinhard Heydrich in WW 2.

the results was brutal by Hilter, but it was needed. Heydrich was to be

the 2 nd german dictator if hilter was killed or the army took over.

 

heydrich was more brutal than hilter, snipers group, commando took

his out.

 

He wasn't killed by a sniper. It was a grenade.

[Jenksismyhero]

Michael Moore who conducts surprise interviews on people to catch them off balance, along with misleading and lies about what he wants to ask, plus some selective editing of those interviews for his films, should be an expert on exactly what a coward is.

 

This.

 

I see that someone vandalized a billboard for the movie with the word "murderer." Our country has some stupid sheeple in it.

[LDF]

He wasn't killed by a sniper. It was a grenade.

 

he was killed by a group of men / commando's some of which were

snipers who tried for several months, to find a way to kill him. including

several sniper attacks which failed.

[RockRaines]

I dont think you have to be pro-war to be a fan of Kyle or this movie, because I certainly do not agree with it, however I understand his primary job was to protect the Marines on the ground from surprise attacks in an urban setting. For that he is a hero to me even if I dont agree with being there in the first place.

[iamshack]

I thought it was good and Cooper was amazing

 

Moore doesn't know the difference between WW2 and today's wars apparently so maybe we should send him out into an urban warfare area. It's pretty clear in the movie that Kyles duty was to protect his frontline guys. Nothing cowardly about that.

Yeah, I thought the acting was the bright spot. Didn't love the movie otherwise.

[LDF]

I dont think you have to be pro-war to be a fan of Kyle or this movie, because I certainly do not agree with it, however I understand his primary job was to protect the Marines on the ground from surprise attacks in an urban setting. For that he is a hero to me even if I dont agree with being there in the first place.

 

my point is snipers are a necessary piece of equipment that is needed in

war. whether most like to think it is cowardly or not, they saves life.

 

my point is in WW2, a sniper / commando's saved life, in the long run. killing

this mad man who is worst than hilter caused an additional 10,000 people and

a complete town. but it still saved lives.

 

no matter what anyone say, his kills are certified by the military, so there is

no false numbers there. he saved or helped saved lives.

[RockRaines]

my point is snipers are a necessary piece of equipment that is needed in

war. whether most like to think it is cowardly or not, they saves life.

 

my point is in WW2, a sniper / commando's saved life, in the long run. killing

this mad man who is worst than hilter caused an additional 10,000 people and

a complete town. but it still saved lives.

 

no matter what anyone say, his kills are certified by the military, so there is

no false numbers there. he saved or helped saved lives.

To be fair, in WW2 the Germans used snipers to defend against the oncoming Allied Armies so it was slightly different circumstances. They had guys hiding in vacant cities just picking off dudes to slow down the advance.

[LDF]

To be fair, in WW2 the Germans used snipers to defend against the oncoming Allied Armies so it was slightly different circumstances. They had guys hiding in vacant cities just picking off dudes to slow down the advance.

 

ahhh just another army way of using snipers. i am sure, as much many

will dislike it, they used snipers to help save lives, german lives.

 

this movie is and should be taken as an entertaining movie. the principals

of whether it is right / wrong, that should be for another post. the story

of the man, if he is a nice person, is another story, but should it take

away from the movie???

[StrangeSox]

This.

 

I see that someone vandalized a billboard for the movie with the word "murderer." Our country has some stupid sheeple in it.

 

FWIW Kyle told an almost definitely made-up story about him and a sniper buddy going to New Orleans right after Katrina and shooting dozens of people from the top of the Superdome. That would make him a mass-murderer, but it was something he was trying to brag about. He also just seemed to have incredibly simplistic "good guys versus bad guys" views of the world.

[LDF]

FWIW Kyle told an almost definitely made-up story about him and a sniper buddy going to New Orleans right after Katrina and shooting dozens of people from the top of the Superdome. That would make him a mass-murderer, but it was something he was trying to brag about. He also just seemed to have incredibly simplistic "good guys versus bad guys" views of the world.

 

jeeze.... you are sure right about that. a great find on the story.

[RockRaines]

FWIW Kyle told an almost definitely made-up story about him and a sniper buddy going to New Orleans right after Katrina and shooting dozens of people from the top of the Superdome. That would make him a mass-murderer, but it was something he was trying to brag about. He also just seemed to have incredibly simplistic "good guys versus bad guys" views of the world.

I thought it was just his sniper buddies who were actively deployed to keep order and not him personally?

[StrangeSox]

I thought it was just his sniper buddies who were actively deployed to keep order and not him personally?

 

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/06/...-the-crosshairs

The session went well. Kilbane told me that he was struck by Kyle’s “aura,” noting that whenever “he walked in the room the dynamic would change, the energy in the room would shift.” Afterward, a larger group went out for dinner, closed the hotel bar, and hung out in Kyle’s suite, drinking until late. The SEALs began telling stories, and Kyle offered a shocking one. In the days after Hurricane Katrina, he said, the law-and-order situation was dire. He and another sniper travelled to New Orleans, set up on top of the Superdome, and proceeded to shoot dozens of armed residents who were contributing to the chaos. Three people shared with me varied recollections of that evening: the first said that Kyle claimed to have shot thirty men on his own; according to the second, the story was that Kyle and the other sniper had shot thirty men between them; the third said that she couldn’t recall specific details.

 

Perhaps this story, like the one about the gas station, contains a kernel of truth. Both narratives, however, portray Kyle as if he really were the Punisher, dispensing justice by his own rules. It was possible to see these stories as evidence of vainglory; it was also possible to see them as attempts by a struggling man to maintain an invincible persona. Kilbane, having read Kyle’s book, knew about his drinking habits and his battles with combat stress. Watching Kyle put down pint glass after pint glass of whiskey-on-the-rocks, he said, “It made me think there were still demons bouncing around in there.”

 

Edited January 20, 2015 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

I'd say an important difference there is that Pat Tillman was made into a hero with a bulls*** story crafted by others for their own purposes. Chris Kyle supplied his own bulls***. He was a willing participant in the glorification.

[Balta1701]

I'd say an important difference there is that Pat Tillman was made into a hero with a bulls*** story crafted by others for their own purposes. Chris Kyle supplied his own bulls***. He was a willing participant in the glorification.

he also appears to have made money on it.