State of the Union

[Chisoxfn]

"loophole" wasn't the right word, but it's yet another complication in the tax code. You can't claim to hate a big, complex tax code but then love every one of these programs that help make it so complex.

I think its complicated as hell, but I don't think the concept behind the programs we are talking about is bad. I think there is an easier way to do it with general tax reform (including saving people the time and cost it takes to prepare taxes) but in this political environment that will never happen.

 

Encouraging people to save for retirement and / or education is never a bad idea in my book. Even if it helps rich people too, I don't have a problem because ultimately it means less people are dependent on old uncle sam and in my department, that should somehow be something we as a society track to evaluate the success of the government. The goal should be to reduce the # of people in this country who need government assistance and increase the # of people who are independent and can do things on their own. Plus the less people dependent, the reality is the more time / energy you can spend helping the other people.

 

I really do think that more people want generic handouts and total reliance on government than ever before. I have no study to back that, just my own personal opinion and I'm sure someone will turn this and say I have that same expectation given 529's, etc, but I'd argue the types of programs I'm talking about taking advantage of are ones that largely are utilizing your own money and just better incentivize / encourage you to put more of it away so that you are more independent.

[StrangeSox]

It would, but if you did direct tuition assistance, everyone is poor so it has its own failures as well. I am just stating that I have zero problem with us having programs that encourage you to "save" money for college. I see little negative to something like that and the general cost (in terms of tax savings) vs. the benefit (advanced education at a more affordable price for those who do have it) as pretty beneficial. When you already have quite a bit of benefits for the poor, it really is the middle class and upper middle class who ultimately get pinched in all of these programs and if you pull this program away, its probably the upper middle (and really the upper middle is the middle class of 20 years ago) who is most impacted (as opposed to the wealthy).

I'd rather we get back to fully publicly funded world-class universities than having a bunch of Rube Goldberg 10-20 year tax incentive programs. It seems like a much more reliable and even-handed way of assuring access to higher education for everyone, poor to wealthy.

[Jake]

I still love the fact that Republican budgets (not the ones that pass) have proposed taxing graduate students like me on the tuition that is waived on our behalf. It would effectively triple my income in the eyes of the federal government and make graduate school even more difficult to afford

[bmags]

I'd rather we get back to fully publicly funded world-class universities than having a bunch of Rube Goldberg 10-20 year tax incentive programs. It seems like a much more reliable and even-handed way of assuring access to higher education for everyone, poor to wealthy.

 

Would you rather raise taxes to fund universities, or cut universities public funding so that the offsets in tuition will be balanced by raising revenue to pay for tax cuts to help pay for raised tuition?

 

[Jenksismyhero]

The other question comes in to what is "wealthy". I will always argue "wealthy" is different depending on where you live (maybe that is cause I life in California where cost of living is absurd). Wealth almost needs to be based upon some form of COL factor by area. The reality is there are pretty significant differences in cost of living depending on where you live. Middle Class means 25K - 75K which is a pretty wide ass definition and upper mid is in the low 100's IIRC.

 

Which is f***ing laughable. My wife and I make a good living (e.g., upper class by that definition) and can barely afford our student loans, house and 1 child in day care with a smidge left over to save for baby #2, which will increase that daycare cost to a mid-level car a year. We live in a nice community with good schools, but still. That actual dollar figure of our income is laughably inconsistent with our lifestyle ability.

[Jenksismyhero]

I'd rather we get back to fully publicly funded world-class universities than having a bunch of Rube Goldberg 10-20 year tax incentive programs. It seems like a much more reliable and even-handed way of assuring access to higher education for everyone, poor to wealthy.

 

Yeah how's that working out for our k-12 systems? No thanks.

[bmags]

Yeah how's that working out for our k-12 systems? No thanks.

 

Colleges control their inputs.

[caulfield12]

there's not much he can do about gitmo with Congress deliberately blocking him. He did end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. He's been s*** on prosecuting Wall Street. The Obamacare website was crap for a month or two, not six months. When you change from "30 million" to "5%," you hide that a 5% drop equates to 15 million fewer uninsured people in the first year of the program, and sign-ups are only expected to increase. That number would also be substantially higher if the Medicaid expansion hadn't been gutted.

 

 

 

The economy craters a heck of a lot more without the ARRA. They screwed up a lot of things (HAMP was particularly horrible when it could have been very helpful), but his administration avoided much of the austerity that swept and crippled a lot of Europe. In that case, it's more of not actively harming the recovery than helping it.

 

edit: I'm not saying that to credit whatever Reddy's saying or say he'll be regarded as one of the greatest down the road, just that you're either seriously downplaying or misrepresenting some of what his administration has accomplished.

 

edit2: also, the EPA's actions on climate change are pretty important

 

The auto bailout was hugely unpopular with the GOP but ended up saving the industry.

 

[StrangeSox]

Yeah how's that working out for our k-12 systems? No thanks.

Fairly well for most people, poorly where it's underfunded and there's other, larger issues at hand.

 

How does a bunch of credits differ substantially in this regard, though?

[StrangeSox]

Which is f***ing laughable. My wife and I make a good living (e.g., upper class by that definition) and can barely afford our student loans, house and 1 child in day care with a smidge left over to save for baby #2, which will increase that daycare cost to a mid-level car a year. We live in a nice community with good schools, but still. That actual dollar figure of our income is laughably inconsistent with our lifestyle ability.

Now imagine those same problems with half or less of that income and you're the average American.

[Jenksismyhero]

Now imagine those same problems with half or less of that income and you're the average American.

 

Our loans suck up a lot of that difference. But yes, it could be worse. I'm just saying the dollar figure isn't as striking as it may seem.

[Chisoxfn]

I had partially mis-spoke. You can't get the next 3 or 6K you spent, rather, you are fully capped at $6K, so really after you do the FSA, you could add an additional 1K (to get you to the total cap of $6K) however, that extra $1K is only available if you have 2 or more kids (and the actual tax savings is 20% of that 1K or $200). But in terms of benefit, Jenks, based upon what you described, you get a much greater benefit from using the 5K in the reimbursement account vs. the 20% rate that would be applied.

[Reddy]

Yeah, because Rubio, Walker, Martinez, all trash. No chance.

 

How good will Hillary look when it comes out that Bill was schtooping underage hookers on Jeffrey Epstein’s sex island? All you will have left then is Elizabeth 'I AM Indian, honest!' Warren.

 

they... they... yeah they are all trash candidates!

[Reddy]

I'm not sure this thread is about the SOTU anymore...

[EvilMonkey]

Would you rather raise taxes to fund universities, or cut universities public funding so that the offsets in tuition will be balanced by raising revenue to pay for tax cuts to help pay for raised tuition?

How about lowering the cost of tuition? 6 figure salaries for professors and even higher for admin and some coaches? More admin staff than teachers? Quit trying to figure out how to afford the high prices, figure out how to get the prices down.

[Reddy]

How about lowering the cost of tuition? 6 figure salaries for professors and even higher for admin and some coaches? More admin staff than teachers? Quit trying to figure out how to afford the high prices, figure out how to get the prices down.

professors deserve their salaries.

[EvilMonkey]

they... they... yeah they are all trash candidates!

Walker and Martinez have at least had experience running something (states) with some success, whereas Hillary has experience being a doormat for her cheating husband so she could ride his coattails to political office. Carpetbagger, that is her. And her most notable happening as Sec. State was getting people killed in Bengazi and blaming a stupid internet film for it.

[Reddy]

Walker and Martinez have at least had experience running something (states) with some success, whereas Hillary has experience being a doormat for her cheating husband so she could ride his coattails to political office. Carpetbagger, that is her. And her most notable happening as Sec. State was getting people killed in Bengazi and blaming a stupid internet film for it.

 

I honestly don't think I've ever read anything more hilariously out of touch and detached from reality at that.

[EvilMonkey]

professors deserve their salaries.

Professors are the 1%.

[EvilMonkey]

I honestly don't think I've ever read anything more hilariously out of touch and detached from reality at that.

Show me just what you think is wrong with what I posted. Besides you not liking it. She was a carperbagger, Bill cheated and she looked the other way, she had no political experience before than and got their on name recognition, Bengazi happened, people died and they wrongly blamed a movie. And Walker and MArtinez are governors and running states.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Alpha Dog

[Reddy]

Professors are the 1%.

 

And they deserve their 100k salaries.

 

Now if we're talking about coaches making millions, then that's a discussion worth having.

[Reddy]

Show me just what you think is wrong with what I posted. Besides you not liking it.

 

literally every word of it is factually incorrect.

[EvilMonkey]

literally every word of it is factually incorrect.

I think Jenks was right. What are you smoking?

[Balta1701]

Professors are the 1%.

I know 2 professors who have reached that level for a single year in their lifetime while taking a private school/lifetime retirement package bonus. Most professors start off at

[EvilMonkey]

Now if we're talking about coaches making millions, then that's a discussion worth having.

This is about the only thing you said I can agree with. However, since you can't read, I DID mention that in the post you had referred to. " 6 figure salaries for professors and even higher for admin and some coaches?"...