Sox sign Gordon Beckham, designate Viciedo for Assignment

[TaylorStSox]

for the record, when we had Beckham and were paying him $5mill, he was easily worth that on defense alone.

 

I'm not saying I'm a fan of the move, but he had value when he was here.

Seriously?

[witesoxfan]

I don't disgree but there is an opportunity cost associated with that 2 million. I would much prefer Denorfia/Ichiro when Eaton ends up on the DL. Beckham brings what Bonifacio can already do. Saladino can very likely do what Beckham can do.

 

As far as the last part, you're right and I think it says a lot about what the White Sox think about GB as a person.

 

For the record, I am in full agreement that I'd like to see another outfielder brought in, especially someone we won't hate seeing in CF, and I really don't want that player to be Emilio Bonifacio. Unfortunately, I think that player will be Emilio Bonifacio.

 

for the record, when we had Beckham and were paying him $5mill, he was easily worth that on defense alone.

 

I'm not saying I'm a fan of the move, but he had value when he was here.

 

His defense is a little overrated because he made some slick plays. His range is fairly average to slightly below average and he doesn't have the strongest arm, but he turns the double play fairly well.

 

The fact that he can play those 3 IF positions without embarrassing himself means more to me.

[LDF]

Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi 16m16 minutes ago

 

Two possible fits for Dayan Viciedo: Rangers and Mariners.

 

i would add Rays as a top fit.

[Reddy]

Seriously?

 

Over his career he's amassed a bit over 8 WAR and was paid about 9MM total.

 

That's good value.

 

[chitownsportsfan]

Hahn is def being kind to Tank. If they felt he had a good chance of success (or anyone else did for that matter) then there would be a market for his services. That market doesn't seem to exist.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I want to know how many people that were in favor of Konerko coming back are angry that Beckham is back. Too lazy to go back and look.

[ChiSox59]

For the record, I am in full agreement that I'd like to see another outfielder brought in, especially someone we won't hate seeing in CF, and I really don't want that player to be Emilio Bonifacio. Unfortunately, I think that player will be Emilio Bonifacio.

 

I agree. Who do you see as options?

 

 

[chitownsportsfan]

I want to know how many people that were in favor of Konerko coming back are angry that Beckham is back. Too lazy to go back and look.

 

Other than both being longish tenured Sox, the situations are not analgous at all. Beckham, for whatever value he has, is OBJECTIVELY still in the absolute prime of his career. Konerko was in the dying embers of his career and the White Sox tried to kick the firepit in hopes it flared up a bit. Never happened.

[sin city sox fan]

Bacon Slayer is back!!!

[PorkChopExpress]

Dan Hayes ‏@CSNHayes 51m51 minutes ago

 

Rick Hahn: We’ve put ourselves in a place where we’re decently insulated against the unexpected and have some flexibility to just 1/2

Rick Hahn 2/2: take the guy who we feel in the end is going to help us win the most ballgames, not necessarily cover a position of need.

 

Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin 54m54 minutes ago

 

Hahn: "Again it’s about having a flexible roster, one that allows Robin to exploit matchups whenever they present themselves to him ...

More Hahn: ".. At the same time, we have insurance policies if things should not go entirely according to plan."

 

Daryl Van Schouwen ‏@CST_soxvan 1h1 hour ago

 

Hahn "will flush out interest" in Viciedo and "find him a better home. It won't surprise us if he has a very successful career elsewhere."

 

I like how Hahn is thinking. I figure you've got 12 pitchers, and for the 13 remaining players, a depth chart something like this:

 

1B: Abreu/LaRoche

2B: Sanchez/Beckham/Bonifacio

SS: Ramirez/Beckham/Sanchez/Bonifacio (he's played there before)

3B: Gillaspie/Beckham/Bonifacio

C: Flowers/BU

LF: Cabrera/Shuck/Bonifacio

CF: Eaton/Bonifacio/Shuck

RF: Garcia/Shuck/Bonifacio

DH: LaRoche/Abreu/any of the above

 

Obviously, Bonifacio is the super utility and plays just about anywhere, his most important backup role being CF. He'll get a decent amount of playing time doing that. Beckham is the infield utility guy and Shuck (or someone else) is the 4th OF.

 

If If Beckham or Bonifacio start the season on a tear, then maybe they become the starting 2B, with Sanchez taking a utility role. If either falters, then they get replaced by Saladino or someone else from our system. Same for Shuck.

[Balta1701]

It is. WAR on the FA market is almost at 8 million per WAR. For a .5 WAR player like Beckham, 2 million is fair value.

 

edit: when you are talking about the 25th man, there is little "opportunity cost". If the 25th man gets more than 150 PA, something went horribly wrong anyways. No team plans on having the 25th man as anything more than plan D.

IMO we acutally ought to want Beckham and Bonifacio (assuming no RH hitting OF is brought in) to get >150 PA because they each ought to get a ton of PA platooning for LaRoche and Gillaspie.

 

Even though Beckham isn't even decent with the bat, he's still a solid upgrade from where LaRoche and Gillaspie were against LH hitters last season. When there's a lefty on the mound those 2 should just be on the bench to start the game, figure it out from there.

[Eminor3rd]

$2m could have gotten us some BS starting pitcher to throw in the fray. I just don't see how we needed him. We have defense-only utility men aplenty, and there's no way this was the best platoon bat option we had for the bench.

[SoxAce]

Not a huge fan of the move but whatever, Gordon will probably be the 25th man. He's better than Tank for that position. Seems they weren't willing to pay Tank's freight via trade, so whatever.

Pretty much the best way to describe it. A whatever move.

[witesoxfan]

I agree. Who do you see as options?

 

It's slim pickins at this point. Eric Young Jr looks the best bet to provide any sort of positive value, but he's in the same mold as Bonifacio and really isn't an attractive option. If this were 2 years ago, Reed Johnson might have some appeal, but based on the way his numbers are declining, he looks done. Nate Schierholtz is coming off an absolutely dreadful season but still appears to have enough range to make for an OK corner outfielder, but he's not really CF material anymore.

 

Really, to add anyone of significance, it's probably going to be a Spring Training move. A guy with some ability becomes available via trade or free agency because he isn't going to make the team.

[chitownsportsfan]

I think the Sox are gonna try and find "lighting in a bottle" at 2B whoever it may be. It's not a great plan, but it's not a bad one either when you have 2-3 guys that are all hard to destinguish. In a perfect world someone would grab the spot by the horns but I doubt that one of Sanchez, Bonaficio, or Micah will do that so they will play matchups as much as possible unless someone catches fire, doubtful, but maybe Sanchez will hit 280/320/350 in April and May and with that good defense he starts the rest of the year. Same with Micah or even Bonifiacio.

[witesoxfan]

$2m could have gotten us some BS starting pitcher to throw in the fray. I just don't see how we needed him. We have defense-only utility men aplenty, and there's no way this was the best platoon bat option we had for the bench.

 

I don't disagree that they could have found better candidates, but I think Beckham is OK if his role is merely a backup and any playing time beyond that is legitimately justified. And I mentioned earlier, it's also not so much that they can't just DFA him if he's not producing.

 

They do have Rodon sitting in AAA for if/when Danks/Noesi needs replaced, plus the veteran Penny who could make a case for coming up too (though I doubt he does). I also think the organization is fairly high on Chris Beck too, and both Montas and Danish lie in the weeds as sleepers for late season call ups too.

[LDF]

I don't disagree that they could have found better candidates, but I think Beckham is OK if his role is merely a backup and any playing time beyond that is legitimately justified. And I mentioned earlier, it's also not so much that they can't just DFA him if he's not producing.

 

They do have Rodon sitting in AAA for if/when Danks/Noesi needs replaced, plus the veteran Penny who could make a case for coming up too (though I doubt he does). I also think the organization is fairly high on Chris Beck too, and both Montas and Danish lie in the weeds as sleepers for late season call ups too.

 

i thought someone posted a link saying that the sox FO has him pencil in as starting from spring training. i may be wrong.

[TaylorStSox]

Over his career he's amassed a bit over 8 WAR and was paid about 9MM total.

 

That's good value.

That wasn't your statement. You said his defense was worth $5M last year. That's pretty crazy. He's an average, at best, defender with limited range. He does turn the double play well. That's not worth $5M.

[chitownsportsfan]

It's too bad they had to include Bassitt in the Athletics deal but I agree with witesoxfan I think they are fairly high on Beck and hell, by July, even Montas might be pushing for a MLB promotion. They have decent SP depth.

 

They are a top heavy team though. If one of Eaton, Sale or Abreu goes down, they are losing 4-6 wins right there -- but it's better to have stars than not have them.

[thxfrthmmrs]

I know we saved $4M, but I kind of wish that we kept DV on the roster. Bonifacio, Beckham, Soto and Viciedo would give us one of the best benches in the league. The drop off between Viciedo and Shuck or Taylor is pretty significant offensively.

 

Ideally, Boni would backup 3B/CF/LF, Beckham backs up 2B/SS/3B, Viciedo backs up LF/RF/DH, Soto would backup C/DH.

 

As of now, I think the chances of Soto winning the backup catcher spot increased a little bit. Historically, he's pretty good against lefties, so it wouldn't surprise me if he gets some look as the DH for LaRoche along with Beckham. Boni and Beckham alone just doesn't provide enough pop at DH.

 

Now let's see if we are tabbed or if we could use some of that money saved to bring in another bullpen arm or reclamation project starter.

 

 

 

 

[LDF]

It's too bad they had to include Bassitt in the Athletics deal but I agree with witesoxfan I think they are fairly high on Beck and hell, by July, even Montas might be pushing for a MLB promotion. They have decent SP depth.

 

They are a top heavy team though. If one of Eaton, Sale or Abreu goes down, they are losing 4-6 wins right there -- but it's better to have stars than not have them.

 

i am not making any assumptions based on a maybe.... i will say, if all goes well in their development, lets not push them, bring them up in 2016 season. let them fully develop.

Edited January 28, 2015 by LDF

[southsider2k5]

That wasn't your statement. You said his defense was worth $5M last year. That's pretty crazy. He's an average, at best, defender with limited range. He does turn the double play well. That's not worth $5M.

 

He posted a .6 WAR last year. The fangraphs article I found from last season put the cost of 1.0 WAR at $7 million. 60% of that is $4.2 million. It isn't crazy to think we are at $8 million per war now, and 60% of that would be $4.8 million.

 

Previous to last year he posted 0.8, 0.8, and 1.2 from 2013, 12, and 11 respectively.

 

The number isn't that crazy is you subscribe to the WAR numbers.

[LDF]

I know we saved $4M, but I kind of wish that we kept DV on the roster. Bonifacio, Beckham, Soto and Viciedo would give us one of the best benches in the league. The drop off between Viciedo and Shuck or Taylor is pretty significant offensively.

 

Ideally, Boni would backup 3B/CF/LF, Beckham backs up 2B/SS/3B, Viciedo backs up LF/RF/DH, Soto would backup C/DH.

 

As of now, I think the chances of Soto winning the backup catcher spot increased a little bit. Historically, he's pretty good against lefties, so it wouldn't surprise me if he gets some look as the DH for LaRoche along with Beckham. Boni and Beckham alone just doesn't provide enough pop at DH.

 

Now let's see if we are tabbed or if we could use some of that money saved to bring in another bullpen arm or reclamation project starter.

 

that is what i have been thinking. the sox will have a backup for a backup at cat and worst case at 1b with a nice sub at dh. that is if he gets his swing back.

[TaylorStSox]

He posted a .6 WAR last year. The fangraphs article I found from last season put the cost of 1.0 WAR at $7 million. 60% of that is $4.2 million. It isn't crazy to think we are at $8 million per war now, and 60% of that would be $4.8 million.

 

The number isn't that crazy is you subscribe to the WAR numbers.

That still wasn't the argument.

 

I don't subscribe to any defensive metrics. I'll just leave it at that though. The discussion will just get me banned.

[southsider2k5]

That still wasn't the argument.

 

I don't subscribe to any defensive metrics. I'll just leave it at that though. The discussion will just get me banned.

 

It is exactly the argument. Is he worth $5 million? According to advanced stats, he put up just under $5 million of WAR last year, and more than that in each of the previous three years.