Sox sign Gordon Beckham, designate Viciedo for Assignment

[hogan873]

I'm okay with the move. The versatility of Bonifacio allows him to be an IF and OF bench player. With Shuck (most likely right now) already here and Bonifacio, there really was no place for Viciedo. Beckham will be a decent bench player...that is if either Sanchez or Johnson do well enough to get the starting 2B job. There is a possibility that Beckham is the Sox's starting 2B, but let's hope it's Sanchez or Johnson. Beckham will be more useful (read: less bad) as a bench player.

[Kyyle23]

Can Soto hit lefties any better than Viciedo? I don't think so. This whole Beckham/Viciedo charade is crazy. Hahn is taking a big chance here. If LaRoche doesn't hit this year, if he turns into an old guy real fast, if he is the 2015 version of Adam Dunn, Sox are in trouble. Viciedo at least represented a RH DH alternative, now it's Soto? Sox are now a weaker team than they were a week ago, and we take back Gordo to clog up the infield even more? Where does this leave Bontifacio and all his speed? If Hahn wants to use Gordo as a RH third baseman because Gillaspie can't hit lefties, why didn't he do that last year? Sorry, I don't get it. Looks like a Forrest Gump move to me.

 

If Laroche failed and you were expecting Viciedo to swoop in and save the day, I am sorry you got your hopes up at all. They arent a weaker team because they swapped out bench players, and got rid of one that couldnt play a lick of defense

[ptatc]

I'm optimistic about the team and this year. Totally. But that said, those of you thinking about upper 80s to 90 wins are - in my mind - completely out of touch with reality.

 

BP is projecting 78 wins, and while we usually beat PECOTA by an average of 7 wins/season, that STILL only puts us at 85 wins. Things would have to swing astronomically in the right direction for us to be in the playoff picture. 5 more wins is a lot to get out of this lineup/pitching staff. Not impossible - it happened in '05 - but unlikely.

 

I don't think there's any world in which Robin gets fired this year UNLESS the team does worse than last year, which I also don't see happening.

 

Side note. Gordon Beckham is a better baseball player than Emilio Bonafacio, so in that regard, I like the move.

I think your predictions is off base. With the additions I do see an upper 80's win total.

[Lemon_44]

Hows your defense at 3B? Can you handle a 120 mph line drive?

Pretty good if it's hit right at me.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Can Soto hit lefties any better than Viciedo? I don't think so. This whole Beckham/Viciedo charade is crazy. Hahn is taking a big chance here. If LaRoche doesn't hit this year, if he turns into an old guy real fast, if he is the 2015 version of Adam Dunn, Sox are in trouble. Viciedo at least represented a RH DH alternative, now it's Soto? Sox are now a weaker team than they were a week ago, and we take back Gordo to clog up the infield even more? Where does this leave Bontifacio and all his speed? If Hahn wants to use Gordo as a RH third baseman because Gillaspie can't hit lefties, why didn't he do that last year? Sorry, I don't get it. Looks like a Forrest Gump move to me.

 

If they do not acquire a more capable RH OF/DH to platoon with LaRoche, then Soto is a better candidate as a backup catcher than Kottaras because he could get some looks vs. lefties DH. Again, nothing is set in stone, we still have to wait and see who they bring in as the backup OF, and how both Kottaras and Soto fare in ST.

 

Now, is Soto a better option to backup DH than DV? Let me put it this way, the upgrade in defense, position flexibility, and the salary saved in swapping DV for Beckham is more significant than the drop off in production with Soto as the backup DH than Viciedo there.

 

I also don't think you should have expected DV to take more AB's if LaRoche doesn't hit. For as bad as Dunn was he was still getting regular AB's vs righties, because you simply don't sit a player with that type of contract or reputation in favor of a bench player. I think LaRoche will be better than Dunn, so we wouldn't have used Viciedo as much as you thought we would.

Edited January 29, 2015 by thxfrthmmrs

[LDF]

If they do not acquire a more capable RH OF/DH to platoon with LaRoche, then Soto is a better candidate as a backup catcher than Kottaras because he could get some looks vs. lefties DH. Again, nothing is set in stone, we still have to wait and see who they bring in as the backup OF, and how both Kottaras and Soto fare in ST.

 

Now, is Soto a better option to backup DH than DV? Let me put it this way, the upgrade in defense, position flexibility, and the salary saved in swapping DV for Beckham is more significant than the drop off in production with Soto as the backup DH than Viciedo there.

 

I also don't think you should have expected DV to take more AB's if LaRoche doesn't hit. For as bad as Dunn was he was still getting regular AB's vs righties, because you simply don't sit a player with that type of contract or reputation in favor of a bench player. I think LaRoche will be better than Dunn, so we wouldn't have used Viciedo as much as you thought we would.

 

excellent.

 

[Reddy]

I think your predictions is off base. With the additions I do see an upper 80's win total.

 

They're not my predictions, they're PECOTA.

 

But yeah I'm sure you know better than the folks at baseball prospectus....

[Rowand44]

They're not my predictions, they're PECOTA.

 

But yeah I'm sure you know better than the folks at baseball prospectus....

In the end their predictions are just predictions just like anyone else's.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Rowand44

[Kyyle23]

They're not my predictions, they're PECOTA.

 

But yeah I'm sure you know better than the folks at baseball prospectus....

 

i wasnt aware that they were an infallible prediction machine. IIRC dont the Sox historically outperform PECOTA predictions?

[Reddy]

i wasnt aware that they were an infallible prediction machine. IIRC dont the Sox historically outperform PECOTA predictions?

 

You didn't read my first post. I literally said the Sox outperform PECOTA by an avg of 7 wins per year, which, if it continued, would put us at 85 wins. We'd then still need a lot of things to go right to reach the upper 80s-90 wins.

 

That's asking a lot.

 

My point being, if we don't make the playoffs, but are competitive, Robin's not getting fired.

[greg775]

Maybe this is Beckham's time to finally right his ship on get back on his true Hall of Fame path....

 

 

It's coming......Believe

The fact he moved to the Angels and stunk has to be an eye opening experience. This is it for Beckham. I would think he'd be flat out MOTIVATED to become something. Maybe not, but it's worth one last chance with him especially since we have nobody at 2B.

 

I'm optimistic about the team and this year. Totally. But that said, those of you thinking about upper 80s to 90 wins are - in my mind - completely out of touch with reality.

 

BP is projecting 78 wins, and while we usually beat PECOTA by an average of 7 wins/season, that STILL only puts us at 85 wins. Things would have to swing astronomically in the right direction for us to be in the playoff picture. 5 more wins is a lot to get out of this lineup/pitching staff. Not impossible - it happened in '05 - but unlikely.

 

I don't think there's any world in which Robin gets fired this year UNLESS the team does worse than last year, which I also don't see happening.

 

Side note. Gordon Beckham is a better baseball player than Emilio Bonafacio, so in that regard, I like the move.

 

I don't know why people are unwilling to say this team should win the division. If it doesn't contend, Robin definitely should be on the hot seat. If it continues to suck in division play, etc., something's wrong. Team on paper has contender written all over it.

 

[Reddy]

In the end their predictions are just predictions just like anyone else's.

 

and they TEND to be more accurate than anyone else's.

[southsider2k5]

It's def Robin's make or break year IMO. If he doesn't do SABER style things like play the platoon advantage (backed up by splits, not just some gut feeling) then he's going to be second guess both in the media and the FO imo. Hahn doesn't seem like he's expecting anything other than 85-90 wins this year. If Robin doesn't deliver the axe will fall, as it should, again, imo.

 

I don't think so. Wins are the most important stat this year. If the Sox win 88 to 90 games, it won't matter if Robin Ventura sends Leury Garcia out to catch with the Mad Hatters hat on, the media will lap it up, and so will the fans.

 

If the team has a bad year, the pressure might turn up, but I doubt the axe drops. Even Guillen had some bad years mixed into his time here, and none of those got him fired. The only way Ventura is out the door is if he opens it up himself and leaves.

[Reddy]

I don't know why people are unwilling to say this team should win the division. If it doesn't contend, Robin definitely should be on the hot seat. If it continues to suck in division play, etc., something's wrong. Team on paper has contender written all over it.

 

It has "competitive" written all over it. Not contender.

 

We have a s***-tastic back end of the rotation and three black holes in the lineup. I also wouldn't be surprised at a high 3's ERA out of Shark.

[southsider2k5]

I'm optimistic about the team and this year. Totally. But that said, those of you thinking about upper 80s to 90 wins are - in my mind - completely out of touch with reality.

 

BP is projecting 78 wins, and while we usually beat PECOTA by an average of 7 wins/season, that STILL only puts us at 85 wins. Things would have to swing astronomically in the right direction for us to be in the playoff picture. 5 more wins is a lot to get out of this lineup/pitching staff. Not impossible - it happened in '05 - but unlikely.

 

I don't think there's any world in which Robin gets fired this year UNLESS the team does worse than last year, which I also don't see happening.

 

Side note. Gordon Beckham is a better baseball player than Emilio Bonafacio, so in that regard, I like the move.

 

85 feels right as a solid median number to me. I don't see us winning this year, but I see us competing, and coming close... sort of like 2012.

[Reddy]

85 feels right as a solid median number to me. I don't see us winning this year, but I see us competing, and coming close... sort of like 2012.

agreed

[southsider2k5]

If Laroche failed and you were expecting Viciedo to swoop in and save the day, I am sorry you got your hopes up at all. They arent a weaker team because they swapped out bench players, and got rid of one that couldnt play a lick of defense

 

Lets face it, everything about Viciedo's game makes him a terrible bench option. He can't field. He can't play multiple positions. He isn't fast. He has a long swing, and strikes out a lot. If you have him on your team, you need to be getting him 500 ABs to maximize what he does do well.

[Kyyle23]

You didn't read my first post. I literally said the Sox outperform PECOTA by an avg of 7 wins per year, which, if it continued, would put us at 85 wins. We'd then still need a lot of things to go right to reach the upper 80s-90 wins.

 

That's asking a lot.

 

My point being, if we don't make the playoffs, but are competitive, Robin's not getting fired.

 

Is this where i can say "I guess I didnt realize that you know more than the folks in the front office"?

[Reddy]

Is this where i can say "I guess I didnt realize that you know more than the folks in the front office"?

 

Who have said that Robin's on the hot seat?

 

Huh. Must have missed that.

[witesoxfan]

I'm optimistic about the team and this year. Totally. But that said, those of you thinking about upper 80s to 90 wins are - in my mind - completely out of touch with reality.

 

BP is projecting 78 wins, and while we usually beat PECOTA by an average of 7 wins/season, that STILL only puts us at 85 wins. Things would have to swing astronomically in the right direction for us to be in the playoff picture. 5 more wins is a lot to get out of this lineup/pitching staff. Not impossible - it happened in '05 - but unlikely.

 

I don't think there's any world in which Robin gets fired this year UNLESS the team does worse than last year, which I also don't see happening.

 

Side note. Gordon Beckham is a better baseball player than Emilio Bonafacio, so in that regard, I like the move.

 

Expecting wins in the high 90s is a little crazy, but unless you're the Dodgers or Nationals, expecting to win 90+ games is a little crazy for any team in the majors right now. There are going to be more than two 90 wins teams.

 

Those win totals are almost certainly based on projected WARs for the individual players on the team, and projection systems have been bearish on the current version of the White Sox, and to some extent, there's reason for that. The team isn't particularly deep, there's older talent on the roster, it's not that strong defensively, and there are quite a few players who are at risk of regressing (the two that come to mind are Ramirez and Flowers initially, though you can make a case for a ton of guys).

 

It's a good team though, and you don't have to squint to see how they could be a contender (like you have in previous seasons). The keys for me are:

 

-Avisail Garcia having a good year (2 WAR would be a nice start)

-Adam Eaton stays healthy enough to play 140 games.

-Conor Gillaspie keeps hitting righties well

-SOMEONE forms a viable platoon at 3B with Gillaspie (between Bonifacio, Beckham, and Saladino)

-the bullpen is good

-a legitimate 4th starter steps up

-the Sox get positive production out of 2B and C

 

These are aside from things that we already expect - the top 3 is very good, those guys expected to perform do so and stay healthy, et cetera, et cetera.

 

The error bars on those projected win totals are incredibly large as well. 85 wins would put the Sox right in the thick of things until the end of September, and I'd be perfectly content with that sort of season. They give us some basis of projection, but they shouldn't be taken literally. They just give us the median outcome of what we should expect given the information we have. The information we do not have is the outcomes of the 162 game schedule coming up from April through September.

[witesoxfan]

It has "competitive" written all over it. Not contender.

 

We have a s***-tastic back end of the rotation and three black holes in the lineup. I also wouldn't be surprised at a high 3's ERA out of Shark.

 

3 black holes? I see 2B and C (with guys who can be non-terrible hitters in house). What's your third?

[Kyyle23]

Who have said that Robin's on the hot seat?

 

Huh. Must have missed that.

 

You, since you keep reiterating that Robin will not be fired

[southsider2k5]

The trade market for Viciedo

 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-ou...-to-deal-012815

[flavum]

They didn't put this team together just to compete or contend.

 

Anything less than reaching a best-of-5 series would be disappointing.

[LDF]

The trade market for Viciedo

 

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/just-a-bit-ou...-to-deal-012815

 

some just want to jump on the wagon ..... i believe if the sox could have traded him.... Hahn would have