Have you noticed the difference?

[LDF]

I do not think that signing another starting pitcher will affect attendance too much. Last winter the Sox signed arguably the best hitter in baseball for 2014. Yet attendance took a big drop. Hopefully a team that is in playoff contention can at least make up for most of the attendance drop it suffered last year. Has anyone seen any numbers on advanced season ticket sales ???

 

You posted that the Sox's chances of making the playoffs would go from 80-95% with another SP. You may want to place a bet on Sox winning it all then. Because at this point Vegas does not have them even making the playoffs ( before Beckham addition).

 

lets take all things into contents. lets not use the performance of last yr, 2014 as the basis to judge all offseason additions. there was many things that went wrong. i do hope you can at least think that is right, right?

 

after a majority of the fa's signing, there were rpt that season tickets sale did go up, this according the the FO statement some weeks ago. second, does anyone have those numbers. while that may be a decent question, do you think the sox will actually present those number to the fans???

 

yes i still do think that the sox can make the wild card and thus being in the playoff. how are you basing that the sox will not make the playoff. b/c vegas doesn't have them listed in making the playoff??

 

i am reposting my questions as a point of reference.

 

there are several point i like to respond to using you post and questions.

 

1. if people thinks that the cost of this yr payroll will go up with signing a sp, what kind of salary do they think, number wise if the sox tries to sign Jeff S???

 

2. trading prospects and in this situation is or may be different than any other situation that may arise in the future. the org needs to take them in as a case by case situation.

 

3. you also have to consider the many positive that a move like that helps. fan attendance, money coming in, commercial appeal

 

4. at the end give him a QO. depending on the team that signs him, is a 1st round pick. by default helping the minors system.

[caulfield12]

lets take all things into contents. lets not use the performance of last yr, 2014 as the basis to judge all offseason additions. there was many things that went wrong. i do hope you can at least think that is right, right?

 

after a majority of the fa's signing, there were rpt that season tickets sale did go up, this according the the FO statement some weeks ago. second, does anyone have those numbers. while that may be a decent question, do you think the sox will actually present those number to the fans???

 

yes i still do think that the sox can make the wild card and thus being in the playoff. how are you basing that the sox will not make the playoff. b/c vegas doesn't have them listed in making the playoff??

 

i am reposting my questions as a point of reference.

 

There were reports that at least additional 1000 season tickets were sold after Samardzija/Robertson...which gave them enough confidence to go to JR and ask for the Cabrera money as well.

[GreenSox]

With the Edwin Jackson, I still don't understand how that is a franchise killer. Hudson was impressive for a while. Jackson was really good with the White Sox. Hudson now has had 2 TJ surgeries, and the Sox still have Daniel Webb to show from the EJax trade. At this point, I would rather have Webb than Hudson. Carlos Quentin wasn't netting the Sox anything. He spends most of the baseball season on the DL.

We gave our 2 top pitching prospects for a pitcher with an ERA in excess of 5...plus, Arizona was in salary dump mode.

Franchise killer? No

Overpay? Without question.

 

Plus, it was a zig zag. Why were we trying to land a 1.5 year rent at that point anyway? .

[Dick Allen]

We gave our 2 top pitching prospects for a pitcher with an ERA in excess of 5...plus, Arizona was in salary dump mode.

Franchise killer? No

Overpay? Without question.

 

Plus, it was a zig zag. Why were we trying to land a 1.5 year rent at that point anyway? .

They were trying to win, just like they are now. The Sox gave a closer 8 figures a year this winter and surrendered a 2nd round draft pick. They traded one of their best prospects for a pitcher not signed beyond 2015, and gave a player "on the wrong side of 30" a 3 year deal and gave up a 3rd round pick. They signed a 35 yreat old for $25 million to DH.

 

If you had an inside source and said this was the White Sox plan 6 months ago, many of the same people loving it now, would have been panning it then.

 

 

The better team you root for, the more fun it is. Your love of prospects is commendable, but most don't work out. One thing KW did right with the Sox minor leaguers is recognize that.

[caulfield12]

Well, that and there was apparently a falling out between Hudson and Cooper of some sort.

[Balta1701]

Well, that and there was apparently a falling out between Hudson and Cooper of some sort.

I'm not mad that we traded Hudson. I'm mad that we got so little in return for him.

 

Same basic idea with the Santos trade. When you're holding something useful, trading him for a very low valued piece is a terrible use of your resources. Throwing in another lefty who went on to develop a lot of trade value himself just made that even worse.

[ptatc]

We gave our 2 top pitching prospects for a pitcher with an ERA in excess of 5...plus, Arizona was in salary dump mode.

Franchise killer? No

Overpay? Without question.

 

Plus, it was a zig zag. Why were we trying to land a 1.5 year rent at that point anyway? .

With the state our system was in at the time, the sox top pitching prospects weren't much.

 

However, I'm usually against any trade where the Sox give up more than 1 pitcher. It's just too valuable of a commodity.

[GreenSox]

With the state our system was in at the time, the sox top pitching prospects weren't much.

 

However, I'm usually against any trade where the Sox give up more than 1 pitcher. It's just too valuable of a commodity.

Yes, Hudson was worthless that Future Sox ranked him the #1 prospect in the organization, ahead of Chris Sale.

He pitched very well for Az, felled only by injuries.

Holmberg, of course, is still around and will vie for a spot in the Reds rotation.

Edited February 1, 2015 by GreenSox

[ptatc]

Yes, Hudson was worthless that Future Sox ranked him the #1 prospect in the organization, ahead of Chris Sale.

He pitched very well for Az, felled only by injuries.

Holmberg, of course, is still around and will vie for a spot in the Reds rotation.

Everyone knew hudson would have tjoee problems. It was discussed here at the time. Holmberg may still pitch but is nothing special. The whole trsde was worth when KW thought he was going to get Dunn from washington.

[caulfield12]

With the state our system was in at the time, the sox top pitching prospects weren't much.

 

However, I'm usually against any trade where the Sox give up more than 1 pitcher. It's just too valuable of a commodity.

That's one reason I really hated Wells, Fogg and Lowe for Ritchie.

[LDF]

With the state our system was in at the time, the sox top pitching prospects weren't much.

 

However, I'm usually against any trade where the Sox give up more than 1 pitcher. It's just too valuable of a commodity.

 

there has to be a subtle approach for both ideas. trading prospects for establish players. with the time of the prospect to maybe reaching their potential, it may take yrs and that is if they make at all. it is undeniable fact the most prospects do not reach their potential .

 

if that trade can bring in an establish player who may be the missing piece to the playoff or more. that has to be taken into consideration.

 

however the system needs a full support of prospects to allow this to happen. as i said in the beginning of this post, it has to be a fine middle point between wasting a prospect for some worthless ideas of a trade. ala KW tenure.

[SCCWS]

yes i still do think that the sox can make the wild card and thus being in the playoff. how are you basing that the sox will not make the playoff. b/c vegas doesn't have them listed in making the playoff??

 

i am reposting my questions as a point of reference.

 

I think the Sox will just miss the playoffs. The reason is I think the 2 wildcards will come from AL East and I still think we will not catch the Tigers. I am a toss-up if we come in 2nd or 3rd in Central.

But if you already feel the odds are better than 70% we will make the playoffs, get a bet into Vegas now because as of last week they have us not making the playoffs.

 

[LDF]

I think the Sox will just miss the playoffs. The reason is I think the 2 wildcards will come from AL East and I still think we will not catch the Tigers. I am a toss-up if we come in 2nd or 3rd in Central.

But if you already feel the odds are better than 70% we will make the playoffs, get a bet into Vegas now because as of last week they have us not making the playoffs.

 

ok, so you have your opinion and i got mine, so that is the point of this post. what are you trying to prove, people have opinions and many are different opinions. so deal with it.

Edited February 1, 2015 by LDF

[ILMOU]

Everyone knew hudson would have tjoee problems. It was discussed here at the time. Holmberg may still pitch but is nothing special. The whole trsde was worth when KW thought he was going to get Dunn from washington.

 

Huh? Love you, pt, but nobody really knows anything.

 

I mean, there has been NO shortage of definitive statements made about the inevitability of Sale's arm falling off, for instance. And I would think that the crazy number of TJSs recently would make many in your profession question some of the "conventional wisdom". Unless you believe ALL the blame goes to these year-round HS prospect showcases.

 

[Balta1701]

Everyone knew hudson would have tjoee problems. It was discussed here at the time. Holmberg may still pitch but is nothing special. The whole trsde was worth when KW thought he was going to get Dunn from washington.

And again, this isn't a defense, it's an indictment. "I way overpaid for a guy that we didn't really need because I was going to flip him somewhere else, but then that ohter team screwed me".

 

Ok, so why did you complete the first trade if there was any chance you couldn't complete the 2nd? Doesn't that mean you completely made a mistake in the first trade? Isn't that basically a fireable offense?

[LDF]

And again, this isn't a defense, it's an indictment. "I way overpaid for a guy that we didn't really need because I was going to flip him somewhere else, but then that ohter team screwed me".

 

Ok, so why did you complete the first trade if there was any chance you couldn't complete the 2nd? Doesn't that mean you completely made a mistake in the first trade? Isn't that basically a fireable offense?

 

there were many fireable trades that KW did, that didn't get him fired. that was my whole point before the world series win. look at the Kip Well trade.

[SCCWS]

ok, so you have your opinion and i got mine, so that is the point of this post. what are you trying to prove, people have opinions and many are different opinions. so deal with it.

 

I agree. I was just letting you know Vegas disagrees and you can make a killing if you desire.

 

[bmags]

OT i know, is there a thread discussing PECOTA projections this year?

[Jose Abreu]

OT i know, is there a thread discussing PECOTA projections this year?

I'm pretty sure 7-8 pages of the Beckham thread were about that.

[asindc]

The problem with the White Sox system before was not that they traded away good prospects and therefore had none left, they traded away except for one or two exceptions, guys that turned out to be not so great, but they still had no one any good in the system. Hopefully the guys they have now are different. Prospects are BS for the most part, and some guys all of us really like now will be considered garbage in a year or two.

 

I wasn't exactly a KW supporter, but by dealing prospects that didn't amount to much, he wound up with a lot more value than if he had let them develop into what they would ultimately become in the White Sox system.

 

The sin wasn't trading prospects away.

 

Completely agree.

 

[Eminor3rd]

The problem with the White Sox system before was not that they traded away good prospects and therefore had none left, they traded away except for one or two exceptions, guys that turned out to be not so great, but they still had no one any good in the system. Hopefully the guys they have now are different. Prospects are BS for the most part, and some guys all of us really like now will be considered garbage in a year or two.

 

I wasn't exactly a KW supporter, but by dealing prospects that didn't amount to much, he wound up with a lot more value than if he had let them develop into what they would ultimately become in the White Sox system.

 

The sin wasn't trading prospects away.

 

Indeed, a major part of this "sustained winning" model has to do with the changes in how amateur talent is acquired. It isn't simply trading/not trading prospects, it's investing in the health of the system in general. The KW era was characterized by a lack of spending on amateur talent at the benefit of increased ML payrolls (allegedly). Now that JR has the draft system he likes, the analog for "spending competitively" is now "drafting effectively." One exception to this is the extent to which signing free agents can cost draft picks and pool allocations.

 

So, the bigger picture is really about balancing resources. The game has changed a bit, but you can still make a good case that the KW-branded administration often focused on the current year's ML team at significant cost to the farm system -- though it wasn't always simply a matter of trading prospects.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Eminor3rd