Dick Allen Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 QUOTE (Reddy @ Feb 9, 2015 -> 03:04 PM) Truth. Testosterone. You're still drawing false equivalencies. What happens for one player means nothing in regard to another. What was your point with Colon? That he was "bad" before roids made him "good" again? How do you explain his performance after coming back from his suspension when he's no longer roiding? The T and stem cells helped him recover to the point where he could pitch up to his historical norms again. They didn't make him a better pitcher, they helped him recover so that he could pitch the way he had always been able to. You really think he is no longer cheating? And you keep contradicting yourself. How could something not make him pitch better, but help him recover, so he will what? Pitch better? I'm done, get the last word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 9, 2015 -> 04:07 PM) You really think he is no longer cheating? And you keep contradicting yourself. How could something not make him pitch better, but help him recover, so he will what? Pitch better? I'm done, get the last word. Thanks. You're equating "good pitcher" or "good hitter" with "gets good results" I don't think those two are synonymous. Colon has always been a good pitcher, he just had a bad couple years and testosterone allowed his body to recover and regenerate with the help of stem cells, which allowed him to get good results again. Just as a good hitter (Sosa) can have a bad season (age 28 .778 OPS), a good pitcher can have a bad season, which brings us full circle to Belisario. And with that, I bid this thread adieu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 QUOTE (Reddy @ Feb 9, 2015 -> 01:38 PM) .300 points of OPS is a thin line? And your second statement is completely subjective and meaningless. No player has ever actually outed Piazza ON THE RECORD - and that means something. The case against Piazza is weak at best. It would be better if we talk Sosa as our example player. Look at Barry Bonds pre-2000, and post 2000. Then after 2004, he falls right back to his pre-2000 levels. His numbers are somewhere between 250 and 300 points over what he did outside of his steroid years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 In his insider piece, Keith Law speculates that Padres could now flip some of their pitching to Philly for Cole Hamels. I think Andrew Cashner and #1 prospect Matt Wisler is a nice start to a package that the Phillies would have to strongly consider. The Padres have really good SP depth and probably the 3rd or 4th best rotation in the NL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 9, 2015 -> 11:34 PM) In his insider piece, Keith Law speculates that Padres could now flip some of their pitching to Philly for Cole Hamels. I think Andrew Cashner and #1 prospect Matt Wisler is a nice start to a package that the Phillies would have to strongly consider. The Padres have really good SP depth and probably the 3rd or 4th best rotation in the NL. To me, they need more infield help than pitching help. The only reason for them to trade Cashner would be if they know he won't stay healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 9, 2015 -> 02:10 PM) I am not trying to be really smart, just showing the guy who thinks he is really smart making all theses claims like eye tests tell you nothing, steroids won't make you a great hitter, that again, he is wrong. Sosa was a great prospect, though. He was smaller (The Panther) and more agile, better arm (Top 5-10 in the game) and running ability and projected to be a 12-18 homer guy when he was 18...that's why the White Sox preferred Juan Gonzalez in the Harold Baines trade, but Texas wouldn't give up both Gonzalez and Wilson Alvarez. Still, everyone could see he was a five tool potential superstar. Now, of course, his second season with the White Sox was a borderline disaster and got him traded for a "win now" George Bell, but that's another story. The other corollary example always used is Gabe Kapler, who had an incredible training process but was never more than a complementary player in his career. No matter how he honed his body (legally), it didn't make him anything better than a player who was hanging on to a 24th or 25th spot on a roster. Edited February 10, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-james-shi...-195000246.html Jeff Passan article on the blunders made by Shields' agent Fister, Iwakuma, Porcello, Latos and Gallardo would be nice consolation moves if they can't keep Samardjiza in the fold, but I'm not sure how much better those moves would be compared to the Shields signing (this year), which would have cost a much lower draft pick. OTOH, having Shields in the rotation would have pushed back Rodon a year...in the end, it just wasn't feasible with Danks' deal still on the books. However, knowing what he did end up signing for, I would have preferred to save the money on Cabrera and Robertson and gone with lesser options there to invest the money into that rotation. But hindsight is 20/20. For example, Aoki and Shields....and a cheaper closer. Edited February 10, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Reddy @ Feb 9, 2015 -> 02:04 PM) Truth. Testosterone. Which reminds me of another thing that steroids do - they increase testosterone which increases competitive drive and confidence, among it's other strength benefits. The bat speed thing I mentioned earlier came from one of the former assistants at one of the busted steroid places, maybe BALCO, in some sort of documentary newscast a few years ago. He had also heard from several players, allegedly, about an increase in visual acuity helping guys see the rotation better, among other things. I believe there is literally a whole world of wonderful things that steroids can do for the high-level competitive male athlete. But I'm not going to say they'll make a bad player great. And maybe the proper formal tests can't really be done, because who except highly paid athletes can have as much to gain by becoming lab rats to chemical performance enhancement? Edited February 10, 2015 by Stan Bahnsen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Feb 10, 2015 -> 12:27 AM) Which reminds me of another thing that steroids do - they increase testosterone which increases competitive drive and confidence, among it's other strength benefits. The bat speed thing I mentioned earlier came from one of the former assistants at one of the busted steroid places, maybe BALCO, in some sort of documentary newscast a few years ago. He had also heard from several players, allegedly, about an increase in visual acuity helping guys see the rotation better, among other things. I believe there is literally a whole world of wonderful things that steroids can do for the high-level competitive male athlete. But I'm not going to say they'll make a bad player great. that may also be psychological. who knows. but yeah I'm pretty much on board with you on all this. good info - thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Padres are going to be fun to watch next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Feb 10, 2015 -> 07:55 AM) Padres are going to be fun to watch next season. I think so as well. Either that, or they will be a total trainwreck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 10, 2015 -> 08:04 AM) I think so as well. Either that, or they will be a total trainwreck. Which means they will still be fun to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 at least the Padres are spending money and making an effort to be competitive. The days of 30-40M payrolls must have been brutal for their fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Jeff Passan @JeffPassan 7h7 hours ago James Shields wanted six years. Then it was five for $125M. He landed at four for $75M. Column on a botched strategy: http://yhoo.it/1IFoLKD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 10, 2015 -> 04:08 PM) Jeff Passan @JeffPassan 7h7 hours ago James Shields wanted six years. Then it was five for $125M. He landed at four for $75M. Column on a botched strategy: http://yhoo.it/1IFoLKD It is what makes other sports that have caps free agent periods so quick and awesome. You have to sign before the cash isn't available anymore. The good news for Shields is while he didn't max out money wise, he still gets to play close to home and most likely signed a contract that will pay him some money he will never spend. Edited February 10, 2015 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Chris Cotillo @ChrisCotillo 2m2 minutes ago #Padres announce four-year deal with James Shields. Deal guarantees $75 million and includes a $16 million fifth-year option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 11, 2015 -> 02:32 PM) Chris Cotillo @ChrisCotillo 2m2 minutes ago #Padres announce four-year deal with James Shields. Deal guarantees $75 million and includes a $16 million fifth-year option. Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 15m15 minutes ago Source: #Padres paying Shields $10M in 2015, followed by $63M over next three seasons plus $2M buyout on 2019 option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS 45m45 minutes ago Gainesville, FL the $75M, 4-year shields is almost 5 times higher than any previous #padres free agent deal. old record: benoit, $15.5M/2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 10, 2015 -> 05:16 PM) Yeah I have trouble feeling bad for Shields here. His agent sucks and Shields career is a perfect example of why but now Shields gets to play at home and has the absolute best chance to prove his naysayers wrong. Friedman sure worked his agent over years back. I don't know why any pitcher would sign a contract with a bunch of performance-based team options that entailed him reaching free agency for the first time at 33. Friedman worked over the agent for Longoria too. He is really good at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 There was an article that if the padres didn't sign Shields they were confident they'd have Hamels. I wonder what the package was. The padres have been maybe the most boring franchise of my lifetime. Even when they were good they were boring. It will be weird to see them interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofypres Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 How exciting can you be when you only have 14 winning seasons all time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 Shields also has a clause in his Padres' contract where he can opt out after the 2016 season, fwiw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 15, 2015 -> 09:56 AM) Shields also has a clause in his Padres' contract where he can opt out after the 2016 season, fwiw. True but he will be owed 2 years, $42 million at age 35. Unless he wins the Cy Young, I doubt he finds a better contract then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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