Whisox05 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 06:22 PM) My real question is why we didn't sign Chad Billingsley for 1.5 MM like the Phillies just did. Because he's essentially Felipe paulino. Hasn't pitched since April of 2013. Had Tommy John and another surgery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 08:02 PM) Because he's essentially Felipe paulino. Hasn't pitched since April of 2013. Had Tommy John and another surgery. Um... he's immensely more talented than Paulino. He has a career 3.67 era or thereabouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 07:21 PM) Um... he's immensely more talented than Paulino. He has a career 3.67 era or thereabouts. Just because he was more talented before doesn't mean anything now. Hasn't pitched in the majors in 2 years and only has 7 minor league innings in that time span. Probably going to be a while before you see any resemblance of that talent if it's all still there Edited January 30, 2015 by WhiteSoxLifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 12:32 AM) You're seriously equating 1.5MM with 20MM? huh. then you tell me why they didn't do it, and if you know the answer then why ask the question. anyway, it was the FO that said, that the sox don't have the money and are on a budget. they also said that they went over the budget...... so i was just simply replying with the same words the sox FO said. Edited January 30, 2015 by LDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 08:49 PM) then you tell me why they didn't do it, and if you know the answer then why ask the question. anyway, it was the FO that said, that the sox don't have the money and are on a budget. they also said that they went over the budget...... so i was just simply replying with the same words the sox FO said. goodness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 07:21 PM) Um... he's immensely more talented than Paulino. He has a career 3.67 era or thereabouts. Is that good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 08:37 PM) Is that good? It's not so amazing for the NL West. Guys like Eric Stults and Clayton Richard have looked good out there for stretches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 09:37 PM) Is that good? for 1.5MM? yeah it's f***ing good. and to compare Billingsley to Clayton Richard is laughable. He had a 3.67 before pitching became as dominant as it is right now. He had WARs from 3-5 before he got hurt. We paid 2MM for Beckham. Enough said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 09:05 PM) for 1.5MM? yeah it's f***ing good. and to compare Billingsley to Clayton Richard is laughable. He had a 3.67 before pitching became as dominant as it is right now. He had WARs from 3-5 before he got hurt. We paid 2MM for Beckham. Enough said. 12 innings in 2013, zero innings in 2014, two different surgeries. It's a great lottery ticket, but they may get nothing from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Reminds me a little of the Josh Johnson situation coming into 2014. Or Beachy and Kris Medlen this year. The problem is that the White Sox are in a vastly different position heading into Spring Training. They can't afford to "experiment" with rehabbing Billingsley in the major league rotation. If it's a situation like last year with Tommie Hanson in Charlotte, sure, why not? Nothing to lose. But you wouldn't want him to be in the starting rotation pitching every 5 days in April and May. That wouldn't be fair to Billingsley, the fans or the team, to put him in that position. FWIW, the Royals are HOPING that Medlen can make an impact in replacing Shields this season. Ken Rosenthal reports the Royals have signed right-handed pitcher Kris Medlen to a two-year deal worth $8.5 million with a $10 million mutual option for 2017. Of course, $8.5 million for a pitcher who won't come back until mid-season is a HUGE risk for KC. They already went 2 years and $20 million on Edinson Volquez, so basically they're betting those two COMBINED will outperform Shields in 2015. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-colum...cle8162523.html Article on unlikelihood of Shields going back to KC, complete silence from his agent. Edited January 30, 2015 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 03:24 AM) Reminds me a little of the Josh Johnson situation coming into 2014. Or Beachy and Kris Medlen this year. The problem is that the White Sox are in a vastly different position heading into Spring Training. They can't afford to "experiment" with rehabbing Billingsley in the major league rotation. If it's a situation like last year with Tommie Hanson in Charlotte, sure, why not? Nothing to lose. But you wouldn't want him to be in the starting rotation pitching every 5 days in April and May. That wouldn't be fair to Billingsley, the fans or the team, to put him in that position. FWIW, the Royals are HOPING that Medlen can make an impact in replacing Shields this season. Ken Rosenthal reports the Royals have signed right-handed pitcher Kris Medlen to a two-year deal worth $8.5 million with a $10 million mutual option for 2017. Of course, $8.5 million for a pitcher who won't come back until mid-season is a HUGE risk for KC. They already went 2 years and $20 million on Edinson Volquez, so basically they're betting those two COMBINED will outperform Shields in 2015. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-colum...cle8162523.html Article on unlikelihood of Shields going back to KC, complete silence from his agent. extremely good logic.... but a question why could they start him in the minors to stretch the arm out and get some innings in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 06:16 PM) Ok not "heavily" overrated, but he's overrated in the same way Shark is. They're very, very similar pitchers. You're right though, that Shields has been better than I remembered. I missed a lot of last season being away on a ship EDIT: In what world is he a 4 WAR pitcher? BP never has him above 3.0 and that was his sophomore season FanGraphs. I don't know how BP calculates their WAR off hand but Shields has been 4.5, 3.9, 4.5, and 3.7 the last 4 seasons. That works out to over 4 per season, but a drop off last year is concerning. Also dropping off to 1.6 seems unrealistic to me. That's an incredibly steep drop off for a player who hasn't lost velocity and is coming off 4 really good seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 01:53 AM) FanGraphs. I don't know how BP calculates their WAR off hand but Shields has been 4.5, 3.9, 4.5, and 3.7 the last 4 seasons. That works out to over 4 per season, but a drop off last year is concerning. Also dropping off to 1.6 seems unrealistic to me. That's an incredibly steep drop off for a player who hasn't lost velocity and is coming off 4 really good seasons. Fangraphs WARs are usually higher than BP or Baseball Reference, which had Shields at mid to high 2s the last few years. I... tend... to go with the more conservative ones, but it's personal preference. I'm sure Shields' projections on FG are better than 1.6. We'll see though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 09:05 PM) for 1.5MM? yeah it's f***ing good. and to compare Billingsley to Clayton Richard is laughable. He had a 3.67 before pitching became as dominant as it is right now. He had WARs from 3-5 before he got hurt. We paid 2MM for Beckham. Enough said. Well I asked because James Shields' career ERA is 3.72 and you said he is a bad pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 07:34 AM) Well I asked because James Shields' career ERA is 3.72 and you said he is a bad pitcher. ahhh you got to take what he said with a grain of salt and a little tequila .... he likes to piss in people cheerios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 02:34 AM) Well I asked because James Shields' career ERA is 3.72 and you said he is a bad pitcher. There's an $18.5 million dollar difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 09:12 AM) There's an $18.5 million dollar difference. And also a 443 innings pitched difference over the last two seasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 09:18 PM) 12 innings in 2013, zero innings in 2014, two different surgeries. It's a great lottery ticket, but they may get nothing from him. Hello Jesse Crain signing. And we got him on a minor league deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 10:14 AM) And also a 443 innings pitched difference over the last two seasons I don't understand the relevance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 09:21 AM) I don't understand the relevance. Shields has pitched, Chad has not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 10:24 AM) Shields has pitched, Chad has not. Shields costs the same as 40 minimum-salaried players. Billingsley costs the same as 3. There's literally no reason to compare the two, and definitely no reason to draw any meaningful conclusion from doing so. Oh, and Chad is three years younger. Edited January 30, 2015 by Reddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 09:27 AM) Shields costs the same as 40 minimum-salaried players. Billingsley costs the same as 3. There's literally no reason to compare the two, and definitely no reason to draw any meaningful conclusion from doing so. Oh, and Chad is three years younger. Bro, I was simply letting you know what he was trying to tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 10:31 AM) Bro, I was simply letting you know what he was trying to tell you. Right. But it was irrelevant to the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 09:27 AM) Shields costs the same as 40 minimum-salaried players. Billingsley costs the same as 3. There's literally no reason to compare the two, and definitely no reason to draw any meaningful conclusion from doing so. Oh, and Chad is three years younger. You compared the salaries yourself. I am just comparing them because one of them will be guaranteed a spot in a MLB rotation in 2015 and one might start the year in the minors. You are the one acting like the Phillies are guaranteed 2008-2012 Billingsley for $1.5 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 10:43 AM) You compared the salaries yourself. I am just comparing them because one of them will be guaranteed a spot in a MLB rotation in 2015 and one might start the year in the minors. You are the one acting like the Phillies are guaranteed 2008-2012 Billingsley for $1.5 million. Never did I say that. I'm simply saying that it's a great risk to take. Even with a 4 era he's insanely valuable at that price. Much better than Danks or Noesi, and if he misses, he misses, and you haven't paid much. Plus we have Herm and Coop, the best in the biz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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