Vaccinations

[ptatc]

Because illegal immigrants can afford to let their kids go to Disneyland and spread Measles...sure.

I know some that can. They aren't burdened with many of the same responsibilities and if they have steady employment make a good buck. There are some factories and warehouses in St. Charles/Batavia area where many of them make more than I do.

[ptatc]

Undocumented immigrants have nothing to do with a bunch of upper class mainly white people not vaccinating their children over a bunch of garbage pseudo-science.

This combined with your comment about the US stealing DNA covertly really made me laugh.

[Balta1701]

This combined with your comment about the US stealing DNA covertly really made me laugh.

Yeah, uh, that...actually happened.

CIA organised fake vaccination drive to get Osama bin Laden's family DNA

NYT

In Pakistan, where polio has never been eliminated, the C.I.A.’s decision to send a vaccination team into the Bin Laden compound to gather information and DNA samples clearly hurt the national polio drive. The question is: How badly?

The directive by CIA Director John Brennan, made nine months ago but only coming to light now, followed concerns raised by leaders of a dozen U.S. public health schools in a letter to President Barack Obama.

 

They spoke out following revelations the CIA had enlisted a doctor to oversee a false immunization campaign in Pakistan ahead of the 2011 raid that killed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad.

 

The campaign's true purpose was to collect information on the residents of the compound, and attempt to confirm DNA matches to bin Laden or relatives.

Yeah, we actually did that. So yeah, that's your intelligence agency, doing things you would otherwise call crazy and inhuman in your name for decades.

[ptatc]

Yeah, uh, that...actually happened.

 

NYT

 

Yeah, we actually did that. So yeah, that's your intelligence agency, doing things you would otherwise call crazy and inhuman in your name for decades.

I'm not saying it didn't happen. I just though it was funny.

 

The whole pseudo-science and fake vaccination combination was funny.

Edited February 1, 2015 by ptatc

[chw42]

I know some that can. They aren't burdened with many of the same responsibilities and if they have steady employment make a good buck. There are some factories and warehouses in St. Charles/Batavia area where many of them make more than I do.

 

Sure, they don't have to pay taxes, but most people won't even hire them, let alone give them more than minimum wage.

 

And aren't you a doctor? How are they making more than a physician? Are they in the drug trade?

[ptatc]

Sure, they don't have to pay taxes, but most people won't even hire them, let alone give them more than minimum wage.

 

And aren't you a doctor? How are they making more than a physician? Are they in the drug trade?

No not a doctor. Physcial therapist/athletic trainer.

 

I was just referring to the ones I've worked with who are employed at the warehouses and such where 100's are employed.

 

I'm sure there are plenty that are unemployed but many of them come here because they can get pretty good paying jobs, usually with a family connection.

Edited February 1, 2015 by ptatc

[chw42]

No not a doctor. Physcial therapist/athletic trainer.

 

I was just referring to the ones I've worked with who are employed at the warehouses and such where 100's are employed.

 

I'm sure there are plenty that are unemployed but many of them come here because they can get pretty good paying jobs, usually with a family connection.

 

So how much do these people make? Just curious.

[ptatc]

So how much do these people make? Just curious.

Some of the ones I've worked with said over 80k and they had the worker's comp benefit to see me in the clinic.

[chw42]

Some of the ones I've worked with said over 80k and they had the worker's comp benefit to see me in the clinic.

 

What the hell do they do to make 80k?

[ptatc]

What the hell do they do to make 80k?

Factory and warehouse work for 70 hours a week. They do that from march to November then live like royalty back in mexico for the winter.

 

These are the patients who want to get back to work asap because they miss overtime.

[chw42]

Factory and warehouse work for 70 hours a week. They do that from march to November then live like royalty back in mexico for the winter.

 

These are the patients who want to get back to work asap because they miss overtime.

 

And they can afford to cross the border every year without getting caught?

[StrangeSox]

I'm not saying it didn't happen. I just though it was funny.

 

The whole pseudo-science and fake vaccination combination was funny.

IIRC the vaccines were at least legitimate vaccines, but it only legitimized the fears that they're just a foreign plot.

 

[Brian]

Has something happened in the last year or so that has made this a topic of conversation? Don't remember it ever being controversial or seeing so many anti-vaccine folks before.

[StrangeSox]

Has something happened in the last year or so that has made this a topic of conversation? Don't remember it ever being controversial or seeing so many anti-vaccine folks before.

Over the last decade or so, more and more people have been refusing to vaccinate their children. This is breaking 'heard immunity' and is leading to outbreaks of diseases like measles. The latest incident was an outbreak in Disney.

 

NOVA had an episode last fall on it:

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/vaccines...ling-shots.html

 

Diseases that were largely eradicated in the United States a generation ago—whooping cough, measles, mumps—are returning, in part because nervous parents are skipping their children's shots. NOVA's "Vaccines—Calling the Shots" takes viewers around the world to track epidemics, explore the science behind vaccinations, hear from parents wrestling with vaccine-related questions, and shed light on the risks of opting out.

[cabiness42]

Has something happened in the last year or so that has made this a topic of conversation? Don't remember it ever being controversial or seeing so many anti-vaccine folks before.

 

I think there are just a lot of libertarians who have taken things way too far and are refusing to do anything the government/general public wants them to do just on principle.

[bmags]

I don't think it's libertarians particularly, but there is something alarming about the complete absence of societal responsibility. When you won't even perform an act that will not only prevent sickness in yourself, but the most vulnerable, then there is a deep schizm right now that will be hard to repair.

[StrangeSox]

It seems to cut across the political spectrum. You've got everything from anti-gmo, everything-organic holistic herbal remedies in tune with nature Whole Foods crowd to the "f*** you, I got mine, I don't owe society nothin'" types to the "fluoridation is a communist plot!" Birch conspiracy theory types. Plus a lot of generally apolitical and otherwise well-meaning people who have been duped by frauds into believing vaccines cause autism etc.

[StrangeSox]

On the other hand, it does seem like its becoming more politicized. Obama goes on TV and tells people to get their kids vaccinated, Chris Christie responds with a call for "balance."

[bmags]

It seems to cut across the political spectrum. You've got everything from anti-gmo, everything-organic holistic herbal remedies in tune with nature Whole Foods crowd to the "f*** you, I got mine, I don't owe society nothin'" types to the "fluoridation is a communist plot!" Birch conspiracy theory types. Plus a lot of generally apolitical and otherwise well-meaning people who have been duped by frauds into believing vaccines cause autism etc.

 

It's quite remarkable the circular logic. I do think the "vaccination deaths" are a huge part of some well-meaning parents who decided not to (And hopefully now are).

 

But another, almost hysterical pushback, is the claim I've seen that the measles aren't that big of a deal (nor is whooping cough) and this is all CDC hype. So in other words, a negligible amount of chemicals applied once to your child is the end of the world, but MEASLES is not a big deal.

[bmags]

Jenny McCarthy had an autistic son and instead of embracing his condition she claims it happened because of a vaccine and went on a media campaign to make people not vaccinate.

 

I have to say though, I had no idea how big this "movement" had become. 10% of the population is 33 million people. That's insane.

[Chisoxfn]

Yikes, under 30 groups plurality in favor of letting parents decide on vaccines

I don't fall into that camp. I think people who don't vaccinate are abusing their children. However, I also have a hard time punishing the children, which is what happens when doctors stop admitting them as patients and they can't go to school. That said, I don't want my kids going to a school where half the kids are vaccinated (I'm making an extreme example here, however, there are certain schools where I live where they are pretty close to this level). Damn yuppies.

[bmags]

I don't fall into that camp. I think people who don't vaccinate are abusing their children. However, I also have a hard time punishing the children, which is what happens when doctors stop admitting them as patients and they can't go to school. That said, I don't want my kids going to a school where half the kids are vaccinated (I'm making an extreme example here, however, there are certain schools where I live where they are pretty close to this level). Damn yuppies.

 

But that's not an extreme example! In that NYT article there are schools in California with about that ratio of unvaccinated.

 

And I understand "punishing the kids", but it's not like they just can't get a vaccine for the rest of their lives.

[StrangeSox]

It does suck that the kids have to suffer for the parents' stupidity, but that's on the parents.

[bmags]

This is making me so mad, I'm going to scarf down handfuls of GMO grain right now.

[Chisoxfn]

Has something happened in the last year or so that has made this a topic of conversation? Don't remember it ever being controversial or seeing so many anti-vaccine folks before.

It has became a pretty mainstream thing to do in the wealthier / more elite / affluent circles. With the outbreak of measles, people are seeing the effects of the lower overall vaccine rates and how a disease that has been wiped up is putting others at risk. Worse yet, these parents are not just putting their kids at risk, they are putting all of us at risk, especially little kids and the older population (as well as those with impacted immune systems). Its downright deplorable.

 

The part that makes me mad is the thought behind it is based upon a medical journal report which was completely fraudulent and resulted in the practitioner losing his license. There has been no scientific causation between autism and vaccines.