Hawk on the Score with Mully & Hanley this morning

[Eminor3rd]

Read the link, and wouldn't you have to give him credit for selecting Bonilla in the rule 5?

 

Yeah, he does get credit for getting Bonilla. But then he gets credit for pissing him away for DeLeon, too.

 

I read the article -- I just don't agree that he should get credit for what others' did. I'm glad that the regime after him was able to make some good trades with what Hawk left him. But Hawk did not trade DeLeon because he knew that he could flip him for Lance Johnson a year later. Additionally, the next regime could have gotten a LOT more than that for Bobby Bonilla in 1988.

 

That type of argument DOES lead you to the conclusion that "it didn't end up so bad after all," which I concede. But it isn't to Hawk's CREDIT that it didn't end so bad. The next FO did a good job turning Hawk's lemons into lemonade.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Eminor3rd

[Dick Allen]

Yeah, he does get credit for getting Bonilla. But then he gets credit for pissing him away for DeLeon, too.

 

I read the article -- I just don't agree that he should get credit for what others' did. I'm glad that the regime after him was able to make some good trades with what Hawk left him. But Hawk did not trade DeLeon because he knew that he could flip him for Lance Johnson a year later. Additionally, the next regime could have gotten a LOT more than that for Bobby Bonilla in 1988.

 

That type of argument DOES lead you to the conclusion that "it didn't end up so bad after all," which I concede. But it isn't to Hawk's CREDIT that it didn't end so bad. The next FO did a good job turning Hawk's lemons into lemonade.

I bet you would feel different if Hawk dissected baseball games these days like Brian Kenny. And even if you don't give him credit for what others did, he still came out ahead from what was left him.

[Kyyle23]

I bet you would feel different if Hawk dissected baseball games these days like Brian Kenny. And even if you don't give him credit for what others did, he still came out ahead from what was left him.

 

Come on now, this is ridiculous

[Eminor3rd]

I bet you would feel different if Hawk dissected baseball games these days like Brian Kenny. And even if you don't give him credit for what others did, he still came out ahead from what was left him.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by the bolded. Do you mean if he was on TV explaining his thoughts, or do you mean if he was into sabermetrics? I'm not sure either of those things would change how I felt about his tenure as GM.

 

As an aside, I'm actually not much of a Brian Kenny fan. I like that he sticks up for modern analytics, but he's needlessly divisive and condescending, and I don't think the a lot of the conclusions he draws make a ton of sense. I don't think he's a good ambassador.

 

Brian Kenny is like Bill Maher. He's fighting the good fight, but not doing a good job of it and acting like a prick the entire time.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Eminor3rd

[Dick Allen]

I'm actually not much of a Brian Kenny fan. I like that he sticks up for modern analytics, but he's needlessly divisive and condescending, and I don't think the a lot of the conclusions he draws make a ton of sense. I don't think he's a good ambassador.

 

Brian Kenny is like Bill Maher. He's fighting the good fight, but not doing a good job of it and acting like a prick the entire time.

Really? I always though he seemed like a decent guy. They do give him a lot of crap on his show for being over the top on the saber stuff, especially when they talk about clutch stuff, but he seems to laugh it off.

 

In fact I was watching the other day and they were talking bullpens. The argument was getting outs vs. having a defined roll. I guess the saber thought is getting high leveraged outs doesn't matter whether it's the 7th, 8th or 9th, and the more traditional guys and Rosenthal who I think is in between embraced roles, and were of the belief the 9th inning is different than the 7th and 8th. They were arguing but laughing the entire time.

[southsider2k5]

I am with you on all of this but its the in between that kills me. His random negative opinions of people that he has because they dont buy into 100% of what he says is annoying. His stubbornness with downplaying sabermetrics and his constant rambling about TWTW and embellishment of made up stories gets old.

 

But like you said, all the other stuff he brings to the telecast is right on point and I still enjoy him too.

 

Last year was the first year that I noticed a decline. I know he has become more of a characture of himself, but last year was the first year where it seemed like he wasn't following the game as well. It relly seemed like he was having vision problems.

[Dick Allen]

Last year was the first year that I noticed a decline. I know he has become more of a characture of himself, but last year was the first year where it seemed like he wasn't following the game as well. It relly seemed like he was having vision problems.

He's had some eye problems. I would hate to be on I80 when he's heading back to Granger after a night game.

[Eminor3rd]

Really? I always though he seemed like a decent guy. They do give him a lot of crap on his show for being over the top on the saber stuff, especially when they talk about clutch stuff, but he seems to laugh it off.

 

In fact I was watching the other day and they were talking bullpens. The argument was getting outs vs. having a defined roll. I guess the saber thought is getting high leveraged outs doesn't matter whether it's the 7th, 8th or 9th, and the more traditional guys and Rosenthal who I think is in between embraced roles, and were of the belief the 9th inning is different than the 7th and 8th. They were arguing but laughing the entire time.

 

I think the stuff I like the least was his Clubhouse Confidential segment where, at the end of the show, he would deliberately find someone who would never agree with him and they'd outvolume each other for like 4 minutes.

 

But I haven't had cable for over a year now, maybe I'm just remembering him at his worst.

[caulfield12]

http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/1/11/3862...y-minor-leagues

 

So the basic point was that the Bonilla trade wasn't so terrible because he wouldn't have elevated the White Sox much beyond mediocrity....and that the Sox specific version of mediocrity put them in the exact position to draft Frank Thomas 7th.

 

Well, I'm having a hard time giving a GM credit for that one...in hindsight, it worked out well, but that wasn't Harrelson's doing.

 

It's like saying if he drafted Bonds instead of Kurt Brown....the White Sox would had Bonilla and Bonds paired together and in their primes...and could easily have peaked a couple of years earlier, avoiding the disaster of the 1994 season being wiped out by the strike, etc., etc. Of course, they might not have been able to draft Thomas and Alex Fernandez by that point.

 

And they likely would have been able to compete with Baines/Bonilla/Bonds/Ventura...so they probably wouldn't have ended up trading Baines for Sosa/Alvarez/Fletcher.

 

 

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2010/10/23/176...ma-harrelson-is

Must-read article, some great "inside" stuff here about Hawk's year...

 

Didn't realize he basically was sabotaging LaRussa at the end of April already by floating the idea of Billy Martin (Royko wrote the story)...and the "college of coaches" thing reminds me of a Hawk 13-1 blowout soundtrack, haha. And say whatever you want about Dombrowski and Duncan, they were 100% loyal to LaRussa.

 

Among the other people Harrelson has hired to coach are Dick Allen, Rico Petrocelli, Tom Haller, Bob Bailey, Dick Bosman, Chuck Hartenstein, Bob Bolin, Jose Cardenal, Buzz Capra, Doug Rader, Herman Franks and Jim Marshall. There are some dinosaurs (Herman Franks?) and certifiable loonies in there, but Harrelson swears by them. (Also Moe Drabowsky, his buddy Drysdale and Willie Horton, among others).

 

SI portrayed Hawk as a flamboyant, freewheeling baseball character. The horror stories didn't come out until September.

 

As Bob Verdi wrote in the Tribune:

Shortly after his appointment last October, Harrelson called a meeting of White Sox administrative staffers, presumably to welcome them, introduce himself and so on. Instead, the Hawk warned of leaks and other disloyal acts, threatening even secretaries with dismissal. The troops, many of whom had nothing to do with the game`s inner workings, were shaken.

Edited February 13, 2015 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/1/11/3862...y-minor-leagues

 

So the basic point was that the Bonilla trade wasn't so terrible because he wouldn't have elevated the White Sox much beyond mediocrity....and that the Sox specific version of mediocrity put them in the exact position to draft Frank Thomas 7th.

 

Well, I'm having a hard time giving a GM credit for that one...in hindsight, it worked out well, but that wasn't Harrelson's doing.

 

It's like saying if he drafted Bonds instead of Kurt Brown....the White Sox would had Bonilla and Bonds paired together and in their primes...and could easily have peaked a couple of years earlier, avoiding the disaster of the 1994 season being wiped out by the strike, etc., etc. Of course, they might not have been able to draft Thomas and Alex Fernandez by that point.

 

And they likely would have been able to compete with Baines/Bonilla/Bonds/Ventura...so they probably wouldn't have ended up trading Baines for Sosa/Alvarez/Fletcher.

 

 

He was meeting with Billy Martin and his agent. TV crews were all over it. Fregosi obviously eventually became the replacement. Tony LaRussa getting fired didn't cost the White Sox any championships.

 

 

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2010/10/23/176...ma-harrelson-is

Must-read article, some great "inside" stuff here about Hawk's year...

 

Didn't realize he basically was sabotaging LaRussa at the end of April already by floating the idea of Billy Martin (Royko wrote the story)...and the "college of coaches" thing reminds me of a Hawk 13-1 blowout soundtrack, haha. And say whatever you want about Dombrowski and Duncan, they were 100% loyal to LaRussa.

 

Among the other people Harrelson has hired to coach are Dick Allen, Rico Petrocelli, Tom Haller, Bob Bailey, Dick Bosman, Chuck Hartenstein, Bob Bolin, Jose Cardenal, Buzz Capra, Doug Rader, Herman Franks and Jim Marshall. There are some dinosaurs (Herman Franks?) and certifiable loonies in there, but Harrelson swears by them.

 

SI portrayed Hawk as a flamboyant, freewheeling baseball character. The horror stories didn't come out until September.

 

As Bob Verdi wrote in the Tribune:

Shortly after his appointment last October, Harrelson called a meeting of White Sox administrative staffers, presumably to welcome them, introduce himself and so on. Instead, the Hawk warned of leaks and other disloyal acts, threatening even secretaries with dismissal. The troops, many of whom had nothing to do with the game`s inner workings, were shaken.

 

 

He was meeting with Billy Martin and his agent. TV crews were all over it. Fregosi obviously eventually became the replacement. Tony LaRussa getting fired didn't cost the White Sox any championships.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

He was meeting with Billy Martin and his agent. TV crews were all over it. Fregosi obviously eventually became the replacement. Tony LaRussa getting fired didn't cost the White Sox any championships.

 

 

Yes, but you could say the same thing about the hiring and firing of Terry Bevington.

 

That really didn't make it a good move, no matter how you spin it.

 

 

I think this Bob Verdi quote's the best summation (we have to picture Hawk's desk covered with cartons of cigarettes, haha)

 

The Hawk gave the Hawk high marks in baseball, but a D-minus in diplomacy. There can be little doubt about the latter, and it`s only another curious twist in Chicago`s twilight zone of a summer that a man so championed as a people person failed in elementary communications.

[Harry Chappas]

Harrelson picked him up in a Rule 5 draft so obviously every other GM was well aware of the the outstanding potential he had was going to produce.

 

I like Hawk but that interview on the radio was painful he added nothing to the conversation and the reception was bad. I am not certain if in 100 years we will be talking about Abreu or Garcia as the person who changed the course of White Sox history.

[caulfield12]

Harrelson picked him up in a Rule 5 draft so obviously every other GM was well aware of the the outstanding potential he had was going to produce.

 

I like Hawk but that interview on the radio was painful he added nothing to the conversation and the reception was bad. I am not certain if in 100 years we will be talking about Abreu or Garcia as the person who changed the course of White Sox history.

 

 

Would be shocking if it turned about to be Avisail over Abreu, but stranger things have happened.

 

Up until September, 2008, I would have thought Carlos Quentin would change the course of the franchise (along with Beckham and Viciedo) and that obviously never materialized.

[Jerksticks]

Hey Hawk so is Beckham the captain this year?

[Steve9347]

Hawk came on the score this morning at 7:35, im sure the podcast will be up later. He had a lot of his normal platitudes(best offseason by a GM i have ever seen, etc.), but one thing stood out to me, he said that he does not think Hahn is done.

 

You can say a lot of things about hawk(many of them true), but he DID call this offseason last year. Here is to hoping he continues to be right

What the hell is their left to do? Sign A-Rod after he's DFA'd?

[Rowand44]

What the hell is their left to do? Sign A-Rod after he's DFA'd?

Always the trade market. Seems unlikely this late in the game but you never know.

[LittleHurt05]

What the hell is their left to do? Sign A-Rod after he's DFA'd?

 

Hire a new play-by-play guy

[Rowand44]

Hire a new play-by-play guy

Lol, YES!

[Kyyle23]

What the hell is their left to do? Sign A-Rod after he's DFA'd?

 

Sayonara Danks.

[Steve9347]

Hire a new play-by-play guy

[Lillian]

None of you have commented on what was, at least for me, the most interesting and debatable thing that he said. He asserted that Beckham was the best defensive second baseman

in the League. He also said that he was the best at turning the double play. Many on this board would disagree, vehemently. Even the notion that he might be the starting second baseman

raises questions. Hawk said that Sanchez could not cover the ground, or throw like Beckham.

 

Thoughts?

[shysocks]

None of you have commented on what was, at least for me, the most interesting and debatable thing that he said. He asserted that Beckham was the best defensive second baseman

in the League. He also said that he was the best at turning the double play. Many on this board would disagree, vehemently. Even the notion that he might be the starting second baseman

raises questions. Hawk said that Sanchez could not cover the ground, or throw like Beckham.

 

Thoughts?

Hawk's an idiot, there's my thoughts.

[flavum]

None of you have commented on what was, at least for me, the most interesting and debatable thing that he said. He asserted that Beckham was the best defensive second baseman

in the League. He also said that he was the best at turning the double play. Many on this board would disagree, vehemently. Even the notion that he might be the starting second baseman

raises questions. Hawk said that Sanchez could not cover the ground, or throw like Beckham.

 

Thoughts?

 

Hawk is done saying things that matter.

[Rowand44]

Whenever Hawk talks about Gordon Beckham just don't listen, that's my thought.

[Kyyle23]

None of you have commented on what was, at least for me, the most interesting and debatable thing that he said. He asserted that Beckham was the best defensive second baseman

in the League. He also said that he was the best at turning the double play. Many on this board would disagree, vehemently. Even the notion that he might be the starting second baseman

raises questions. Hawk said that Sanchez could not cover the ground, or throw like Beckham.

 

Thoughts?

 

Sounds like everything he has been saying about Beckham for his entire time in a white sox uniform