Ventura "I expect us to make the playoffs"

[Balta1701]

But what if they did that and they lost and Sale was never the same again?

 

Getting to the playoffs is a challenge. Winning the WS a bigger one. Bumgarner threw 52 postseason innings last year. It paid off. But what if the Giants didn't win? I would bet there would be people saying Bochy throwing him out there so much was dumb.

 

He is going to get his days off during the season. How many times has he pitched simce becoming a starter on less than 4 days rest?

2012 was the only season where they would have thought of using him on 3 days rest, but he was already showing signs of wearing down anyway (ERA 5.03 in August) and they were skipping a start of his a month that year, wisely, because he'd already had the arm soreness early in the year & they were trying to make sure they didn't hurt him.

[bmags]

But what if they did that and they lost and Sale was never the same again?

 

Getting to the playoffs is a challenge. Winning the WS a bigger one for sure, but you have to get there to have a chance. Bumgarner threw 52 postseason innings last year. It paid off. But what if the Giants didn't win? I would bet there would be people saying Bochy throwing him out there so much was dumb.

 

He is going to get his days off during the season. How many times has he pitched since becoming a starter on less than 4 days rest? The answer is less than one.

 

Anyway, if the White Sox make the playoffs, it probably means Samardzija was really good and Rodon was good. I doubt they would have as many 2 and 3 inning performances in the postseason from their starters as the 2014 Giants.

I doubt Bochy would face criticism for that. He'd face more criticism if he tried to save his pitcher for years later with a World Series on the line. Those don't come often, when it's there you throw all you've got.

[LDF]

Yet you suggest if the White Sox make the postseason, they push him like Madison Bumgarner.

 

i know what Balta wrote, who is the author of his comment, but i see his comment more of a comparison to Bumgarner than anything else. however, your ace, is going to carry you when the team makes the playoff. face it, the ace of the team is the bread and butter of the whole rotation.

 

the thing is, this is a perfect time to make that splash, to go for the ring so to speak. this team has the talent, albeit no backup pitcher to help the rotation, and i am talking about a certified pitcher not an unproven one.

[LDF]

No.

 

 

A guy who would surprise you if he made it through a full season. Some guys get the label unfairly because they have just have bad luck with unrelated ailments every year after year (a sprained ankle here, a line drive off the face there). Others you worry more about because their hamstring acts up every season. Troy Tulowitzki, Carlos Gonzalez, Brandon McCarthy, Rich Harden years ago. Sale has one DL trip in his career and doesn't belong in a category with these guys.

i like chris sale and by this 2 nd para, you pretty much define chris sale, whether you want to admit it or not.

 

this up coming season, there are question marks on health, Garcia-of, Jose A-1b, chirs sale-sp. the team has a backup in 2 of those positions except for sp.

[LDF]

2012 was the only season where they would have thought of using him on 3 days rest, but he was already showing signs of wearing down anyway (ERA 5.03 in August) and they were skipping a start of his a month that year, wisely, because he'd already had the arm soreness early in the year & they were trying to make sure they didn't hurt him.

good point

 

i think i am a minority in this thinking, but this is a reason why i would like to see a 6 man rotation this season.

Edited February 22, 2015 by LDF

[Balta1701]

good point

 

i think i am a minority in this thinking, but this is a reason why i would like to see a 6 man rotation this season.

This would seem reasonable to me late in the season as a way to work Rodon in...except that down the stretch is the time when you might really be wanting to ride your front of the rotation guys in order to make the playoffs.

[shysocks]

i like chris sale and by this 2 nd para, you pretty much define chris sale, whether you want to admit it or not.

What?!? Go look up how many games those guys routinely miss every year and tell me I've defined Chris Sale.

 

Let me repeat - one career DL trip.

[Dick Allen]

I doubt Bochy would face criticism for that. He'd face more criticism if he tried to save his pitcher for years later with a World Series on the line. Those don't come often, when it's there you throw all you've got.

I don't know much about Bumgarner's history, but I do know Sale's. I don't think there are many pitchers physicsly capable of doing what he did durimg the 2014 postseason. The way Sale has gone, and the fact that people are up in arms when he throws 115 pitches in a game, I don't think, especially if you want to baby through the regualr season, he would be able to do something he has never done. It would be like putting Derrick Rose on a 25 minute limit for the entire season, and once the playoffs start, lifting it and expecting him to be fine for 45 minutes a night.

 

I know in sports, copying others routes to winning is pretty common, but this particular one is pretty unique. To expect or rely on any pitcher coming close to duplicating Bumgarner's 2014 postseason isn't a recipe for success.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Dick Allen

[LDF]

This would seem reasonable to me late in the season as a way to work Rodon in...except that down the stretch is the time when you might really be wanting to ride your front of the rotation guys in order to make the playoffs.

 

don't get me wrong, you have an excellent point. but the point is, during the season the team really needs to protect chris sale.

[LDF]

What?!? Go look up how many games those guys routinely miss every year and tell me I've defined Chris Sale.

 

Let me repeat - one career DL trip.

 

and he was hurt for 2 season and yeah 1 trip to the dl.

[LDF]

I don't know much about Bumgarner's history, but I do know Sale's. I don't think there are many pitchers physicsly capable of doing what he did durimg the 2014 postseason. The way Sale has gone, and the fact that people are up in arms when he throws 115 pitches in a game, I don't think, especially if you want to baby through the regualr season, he would be able to do something he has never done. It would be like putting Derrick Rose on a 25 minute limit for the entire season, and once the playoffs start, lifting it and expecting him to be fine for 45 minutes a night.

 

I know in sports, copying others routes to winning is pretty common, but this particular one is pretty unique. To expect or rely on any pitcher coming close to duplicating Bumgarner's 2014 postseason isn't a recipe for success.

 

the innings, the work load, having 2 solid starters, having sale as your ace, is a nice recipe for success, but i would rather have just 1 more certified ace to help, in case. none of these pitchers threw extra innings b/c a playoff run.

[Dick Allen]

the innings, the work load, having 2 solid starters, having sale as your ace, is a nice recipe for success, but i would rather have just 1 more certified ace to help, in case. none of these pitchers threw extra innings b/c a playoff run.

If Jose Quintana threw 95 and had exactly the same stats he has had, he would be considered ace like. If Samardzija is what everyone hopes, and Rodon is what many expect him to be, that is almost as stacked as it gets.

[shysocks]

and he was hurt for 2 season and yeah 1 trip to the dl.

Again I ask you, go find the playing time totals for the guys I named - Gonzalez, Tulowitzki, Harden, McCarthy. If you can honestly tell me afterwards that Sale belongs in their category, I will be very confused.

[LDF]

Again I ask you, go find the playing time totals for the guys I named - Gonzalez, Tulowitzki, Harden, McCarthy. If you can honestly tell me afterwards that Sale belongs in their category, I will be very confused.

 

i am not going to look up anthing except the fact, he was hurt 2 out of 3 yrs. that is all that is needed, his health record.

 

if you can not see this, then you are really delusional and i will stop this right here.

[LDF]

If Jose Quintana threw 95 and had exactly the same stats he has had, he would be considered ace like. If Samardzija is what everyone hopes, and Rodon is what many expect him to be, that is almost as stacked as it gets.

 

sale, Q, jeff s, are this teams ace's. plain and simple. rodon is an unproven player. this team went with an unproven pitchers and got burned. they have a great team now, they can not afford to do that again.

 

no matter what we, the fans want or tries to explain, the FO is pretty much set in what they have.

[caulfield12]

If Jose Quintana threw 95 and had exactly the same stats he has had, he would be considered ace like. If Samardzija is what everyone hopes, and Rodon is what many expect him to be, that is almost as stacked as it gets.

 

 

He does throw 92-93 MPH pretty consistently.

 

He's just not a media darling/personality, is not particularly flamboyant, he pitches for the Sox, English is his second language and he's not a strikeout machine, consistently get 10+ K numbers that look nice on SportsCenter. To me, because his change-up isn't dominating, he's more like Johan Santana-Lite.

 

It will be nice to see how he responds to pennant pressure...he was awesome the first half of 2012 and faded a bit like everyone else in the 2nd half.

[shysocks]

i am not going to look up anthing except the fact, he was hurt 2 out of 3 yrs. that is all that is needed, his health record.

 

if you can not see this, then you are really delusional and i will stop this right here.

Lovely.

 

Saying, "well, he was hurt two of three years" is dishonest to this discussion. There are degrees of hurt. One of the two years he was hurt, he missed one start. The other was his DL stint. The third year was completely healthy. So I'm looking at two years where he worked just about full seasons and a third where he missed a month, and as I already cited, he's managed to throw more innings than all but 25 guys since he became a starting pitcher.

 

The guys I mentioned consistently miss quarter seasons, two months, half seasons routinely. So you can sit there and tell me I'm delusional, but if you think that Chris Sale has earned the injury-prone label as much as them, you are wrong.

[LDF]

Lovely.

 

Saying, "well, he was hurt two of three years" is dishonest to this discussion. There are degrees of hurt. One of the two years he was hurt, he missed one start. The other was his DL stint. The third year was completely healthy. So I'm looking at two years where he worked just about full seasons and a third where he missed a month, and as I already cited, he's managed to throw more innings than all but 25 guys since he became a starting pitcher.

 

The guys I mentioned consistently miss quarter seasons, two months, half seasons routinely. So you can sit there and tell me I'm delusional, but if you think that Chris Sale has earned the injury-prone label as much as them, you are wrong.

 

there is no degrees in being hurt. you are either hurt or not. i really don't care about any other sp unless that sp, pitches for the white sox.

 

the history is there, whether it is b/c of a freaking hang-nail or something more important. the sox needs a viable sp pitcher in the wings to help, no matter what.

[Balta1701]

Lovely.

 

Saying, "well, he was hurt two of three years" is dishonest to this discussion. There are degrees of hurt. One of the two years he was hurt, he missed one start. The other was his DL stint. The third year was completely healthy. So I'm looking at two years where he worked just about full seasons and a third where he missed a month, and as I already cited, he's managed to throw more innings than all but 25 guys since he became a starting pitcher.

 

The guys I mentioned consistently miss quarter seasons, two months, half seasons routinely. So you can sit there and tell me I'm delusional, but if you think that Chris Sale has earned the injury-prone label as much as them, you are wrong.

I'm much more worried about giving Chris an unusual load than I am about him being unable to handle a normal load. If we try to run Chris out for 220 innings and he gets hurt in the regular season...sometimes you can only do so much.

 

What worries me is calling up Rodon as the 5th starter early in the season and having Rodon be skipped once a month on offdays, dumping those extra innings onto the rest of the staff. Suddenly Sale is going every 5th day when we could be giving him an extra day or two most weeks. Then throw in the fact that we'll probably want him going deep in the game, and then it gets down the stretch when we're in a pennant race and trying to match him up against the Tigers or something like that, a setup where he's working harder than he's ever done in his career...and then that is possibly followed up by pitching in October...That's what worries me.

 

Just be smart about him in the regular season, don't treat with kid gloves, but at least be smart. We've got this big money closer, use him. We've got offdays, don't sacrifice them for Rodon being up, etc.

[bmags]

Read up on Danks mechanical change in September. Going to choose to believe every ST fluff piece this year to see how that can affect someone.

 

But with Garcia and Abreu in best shape of their lives, Duke out to prove his success is real and Danks mechanical change leading to breakthrough, if say Robin is being pessimistic. World Series or bust.

[LDF]

I'm much more worried about giving Chris an unusual load than I am about him being unable to handle a normal load. If we try to run Chris out for 220 innings and he gets hurt in the regular season...sometimes you can only do so much.

 

What worries me is calling up Rodon as the 5th starter early in the season and having Rodon be skipped once a month on offdays, dumping those extra innings onto the rest of the staff. Suddenly Sale is going every 5th day when we could be giving him an extra day or two most weeks. Then throw in the fact that we'll probably want him going deep in the game, and then it gets down the stretch when we're in a pennant race and trying to match him up against the Tigers or something like that, a setup where he's working harder than he's ever done in his career...and then that is possibly followed up by pitching in October...That's what worries me.

 

Just be smart about him in the regular season, don't treat with kid gloves, but at least be smart. We've got this big money closer, use him. We've got offdays, don't sacrifice them for Rodon being up, etc.

 

excellent post. couldn't have put it better. the sox need this team to be as healthy as possible for those extra innings they are going to pitch.

[Texsox]

There is a fine line between getting maximum value from a pitcher and overwork. Plus, not all innings are equal depending on weather, how you feel that day, your body doesn't heal from the previous outing at a consistent rate . . . There are ridiculous amounts of innings that Sale could pitch, 220 may be the upper number, but so to is a lower number. Having him pitch only 125 because you are "saving" him is equally ridiculous.

 

I tend to agree with Balta that there should be a concern, and I am certain there is. But if the starting point of planning the rotation is how often can we rest Sale, we're doomed.

[LDF]

There is a fine line between getting maximum value from a pitcher and overwork. Plus, not all innings are equal depending on weather, how you feel that day, your body doesn't heal from the previous outing at a consistent rate . . . There are ridiculous amounts of innings that Sale could pitch, 220 may be the upper number, but so to is a lower number. Having him pitch only 125 because you are "saving" him is equally ridiculous.

 

I tend to agree with Balta that there should be a concern, and I am certain there is. But if the starting point of planning the rotation is how often can we rest Sale, we're doomed.

 

1 the planned to not only to rest sale but the whole sp rotation, sale, Q, and jeff s.

 

2 not many pitchers have pitched those extra innings that going a full season plus playoff will add.

 

3. coming in at a 125 pitch count or any hard number is unreasonable. different pitchers handles innings differently.

 

lastly, this team needs their ACE's to produce, the best way is keep them as fresh as possible without a heavy workload.

 

that is my opinion. i may be wrong.

[brett05]

Vegas says we're a .500 team and u better believe Vegas is right most all the time.

Vegas does not say that the White Sox are a .500 team. That's not how sports betting works.

[Kyyle23]

Vegas does not say that the White Sox are a .500 team. That's not how sports betting works.

 

 

brett, let me introduce to you greg.....