JUGGERNAUT Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 JR please break out your wallet & spend some of your own mega profits that you earn from your real-estate dealings & liquor fees & BRING THEM ALL BACK! Konerko 7.5MIL. Ordonez 14.5MIL Lee 6MIL Everett 6MIL R Alomar 5MIL S Alomar 1MIL T Graff 2MIL Valentin 5MIL (no choice - he will reach 575 abs) Stewart, Crede, Rowand, Harris, Olivo, Burke 3MIL Garland 3MIL Buerhle 4MIL Colon 9MIL Loaiza 5MIL (assuming he reaches incentives) Thomas 6MIL Marte 2MIL Gordon 2MIL Wunsch 1MIL Wright 2MIL Sully 3MIL ============= Total 87MIL KW will just have to find a way to deal them down to fit within 70MIL. Because JR there is a SNOW BALL's CHANCE IN HELL OF WINNING A WORLD SERIES ON A < 60MIL payroll. OAK's been trying/failing for the past 4 yrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 If Jerry wants Frank it'll cost him 8 mil (team option). Colon will most likely get more then 9 mil from the Yankees. Danny Wright will only make 375K Garland will be looking at about a million. Tony G will get 750K-1 mil tops Also Flash will cost more then 2 mil (he's gonna make that this year, with incentives), if you want him back it'll run 4-5 mil. And you forgot about Koch and his $6.375M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wsc425 Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Konerko 8.0 MIL. Ordonez 14.0MIL Lee Arbitration Eligible Everett 7.5MIL R Alomar 7.6 MIL S Alomar 1MIL T Graff 1.6 MIL Valentin 5MIL (no choice - he will reach 575 abs) Stewart, Crede, Rowand, Harris, Olivo, Burke 1.8MIL Garland 3MIL Buerhle 4MIL Colon 9MIL Loaiza 3.5 MIL (assuming he reaches incentives) Thomas 8MIL Marte 400,000 MIL Gordon 1.5 MIL Wunsch 800,000 MIL Wright 350,000 MIL Sullivan 3.1 M Daubach 450,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 I think He will bring some people back but why all. Why not do what we did this year, start out with a good core then add as we need it. Personally I disagree with a couple of these guys playing for us. 1) Valentin- He is way overpaid. I would do everything to not give him his at bats. 2) Colon is gone, and quite frankly I don't care. I am certain for 5 million we can get a guy 3 games over 500. Savings 3 million. 3) Everett- I like him but he won't stick. We have Rowand, as well as a slew of good outfielders in minors. 4) Keep alomar 5) Keep sullivan 6) Find a way to get rid of Koch and his salary. I Give Gordon another million. We can still be competitive and well positioned and we can add later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted September 7, 2003 Author Share Posted September 7, 2003 Team option on Frank? Frank chooses to stay: 6MIL Frank chooses to go, SOX say no: 8MIL Frank chooses to go, SOX say yes: Free Agency Frank is guaranteed 6,8,10,12 the next 4 yrs if he chooses to stay. It's only the last yr in which the SOX can buy him out at 3MIL. So who in there right mind would offer Frank more than 24MIL over the next 3 yrs? I don't see anybody doing that. If Frank chooses to go, you can bet the SOX say go & Frank only comes back with a new s***tier deal than what he has now. Frank: 6MIL I did forget Koch. Crap. Best we can do is trade s*** for s*** & save a mil or so. Well it was a nice dream. Looks like we go the core & build: Lee - arbit (6MIL) Rowand, Crede, Wright, Garland, Harris, Olivo, Burke - 3MIL Maggs - 14.5MIL Frank - 6MIL Koney - 7.5MIL Graff - 2MIL Valentin - 5MIL Loaiza - 4MIL Buerhle - 5MIL Koch - 6MIL Total : 59MIL R Alomar - 5MIL S Alomar - 1MIL Total: 65MIL Rotation: E-LO MB JG DW/Free Agent Cotts/Stewart/Free Agent Bullpen: Koch - Closer Marte - Closer Wunsch ???? ??? ??? Sheesh! Even the build option is expensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Everett 7.5MIL R Alomar 7.6 MIL I disagree with these figures. Everett... maybe. But there is NO WAY Robbie would command this high of a salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Lee is going to want more than 6 mil, more like 8 or 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Team option on Frank? Frank chooses to stay: 6MIL Frank chooses to go, SOX say no: 8MIL Frank chooses to go, SOX say yes: Free Agency Frank is guaranteed 6,8,10,12 the next 4 yrs if he chooses to stay. It's only the last yr in which the SOX can buy him out at 3MIL. So who in there right mind would offer Frank more than 24MIL over the next 3 yrs? I don't see anybody doing that. If Frank chooses to go, you can bet the SOX say go & Frank only comes back with a new s***tier deal than what he has now. Frank: 6MIL Frank will not pick up his option and if the Sox's don't pick it up some other team will be glad to give him 24 mil over 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Where are you getting 5 million for Buehrle? Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Lee is going to want more than 6 mil, more like 8 or 9 He can ask for that, but then Sox's could just go to arbitration and they'll win with a 6-6.5 mil offer.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 I think you should bring them all back. You leave out one, who may be an important part of a winning team and the whole team is weakened. I don't want to see us be a rent-a-player team. Let's keep Alomar, Everett, Sullivan, Schoenweis, and Colon along with our other guys. Next year we could actually run away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 If JR is willing to dish the dough, Buehrle will probably get a Zito-type deal, only a little more favorable to Buehrle money wise(maybe 4-years, $16-20 mill or something with Buehrle getting around $2 mill this year with him getting around $7-$8 mill his last year). Colon's as good as gone....it would take a miracle to resign him. Loaiza has an option for $3.5 mill next year....he's gonna be a member of the White Sox next year, guaranteed. Garland would be lucky to get $2 mill, let alone $3. He'll most likely end up around $1 mill. Wright will get as close to the league minimum as possible. We have an option for Gordon next year at around I believe $1.5 mill....that will be picked up. Marte probably will end up at around $2 mill, Sullivan will either get $1 mill tops or he is gone, Schoenweis will probably get around $1.5 mill, Wunsch will get $750,000(I'd rather bring in Stanton instead...atleast Stanton can throw more then an inning at a time) or he is gone, and Koch will get the $6 mill(worst move ever....as Killa has said, let's give a guy a guaranteed contract when he hasn't even thrown a pitch in a White Sox uniform....f***ing idiots). That's the bullpen. Robby will make $3 mill tops next year....his skills have diminished offensively, and that's enough for that big of a pay cut. His defense is still superb though. A great reason to keep him is his defense. Carlos will make $7 mill tops....for all I care, if he wants more then that, we can trade his ass. He hasn't walked enough this year or played smart enough to deserve more then that(if he were a great player, he would have a .300 average, 30-35 homers and 110 RBI now....the problem is is that he keeps trying to kill the ball EVERY time.....he takes a shorter hack at it from time to time and he'll get more hits and the pitcher will try to get too perfect, he'll make a mistake, and then you hit that pitch 900 miles....Carlos is too stupid to do that). Frank will get his option picked up one way or the other, and he seems happy here, so I don't think he'll exercise his right to become a FA. Count him in at $6 or $8 mill. Maggs is here for $14 mill....a hefty price, but he does have a good stick. He won't get that kind of money in the future though. Everett, as far as I'm concerned, is as good as gone. If we could get him back for $5 mill, I'd be fine with trading Carlos away for some prospects or make him part of a blockbuster deal(maybe include Koch and get a good arm or two for the bullpen or getting a good arm for the rotation) and using Everett in LF, but odds are, that won't happen. Konerko will be here at $8 mill. Valentin will be here at $5 mill, or maybe we could work it out and get him here at $3 mill as well. Crede will get maybe $500,000. I believe he is technically a 3rd year player, so $500,000 is decent cash. And Miguel will most likely get very close to the league minimum. Graffy will probably be kept at around $750,000-$1 mill....something around there. Michael Rivera will probably be brought up as the backup catcher, making near the league minimum, Rowand and Harris will make around the league minimum, and a cheap LH bat will probably be brought in for the bench(possibly Daubach being brought back). Add those numbers up, and you'll figure out our payroll for next year. I'm a lazy ass, and I don't wanna add them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 I doubt Colon's gonna be back especially at 9 mil, he'd only come back if he continutes his recent great pitching through the playoffs. I read in an article this week that we might go after Livan Hernandez cos JM is familiar with him from those Florida days. Our rotation would then look like this next year, Buerhle Loaziza Garland Hernandez Wright, Cotts or Schowenweis? I think Robbie will be back cheap cos he wants to be in a pennant race and we can offer him that here, $3 Mil sounds pretty resasonable, and Valentin should probably come back for that much as well, maybe less if we can rework his deal. The only JR brings back these players is if we make the playoffs and win a series otherwise we could see another spring cleanout in da works and build around younger players like Cleveland's doin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 In the paper this week, KW was quoted as saying he wants Sandy Alomar back as a player next year, a good idea if you want to keep Robbie, so don't think you can economize with Jamie Burke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach23 Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Gonna be hard to convince him to dish out more money when a first place team only gets 24,000 people to show up on a beautiful Saturday afternoon with a potential Cy Young winner going for #19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted September 7, 2003 Author Share Posted September 7, 2003 Gonna be hard to convince him to dish out more money when a first place team only gets 24,000 people to show up on a beautiful Saturday afternoon with a potential Cy Young winner going for #19. Yes but they were playing CLE which is considered a laxy dog now. It's hard to get fans to come out to see them play the runts of the litter. Let's start this over because it's all over the place now. We have $$$ we owe so let's start there: Maggs 14.5MIL Koney 7.5MIL E-LO 3.5MIL (We don't owe it, but it's a near guarantee). Thomas 7MIL (We owe him 6 if he decides to stay. I can see them throwing in another 1MIL loan that Thomas has his lifetime to pay off ). Koch 6MIL Graff 1MIL (JR's fav player) Total: 39MIL J-Val 575 ab = 5MIL, he's at 445 ab. With 21 gms left he won't make it. He wil continue to miss play vs LH's so figure he will get 60-70 abs tops the rest of the season. That's barely over 500 ab. Arbits: Buerhle Garland Wunsch Marte Lee Type 1 Arbits: Everett Colon Options: Gordon I think Everett & Colon will both be avail to the SOX via Type 1 Arbit. So JR can at least attempt to bring them back & receive compensation picks if they decline. The arbits will probably cost 20MIL. Throw in the min guys & the total is 62MIL. That's before any decision on Everett, Colon, Val, R Alomar, S Alomar, Gordon, Schow, & Sully. Lee's going to finish near 110 RBI. What the going arbit rate for 110 RBI men? If Lee is back it will be with a 3 yr contract lower than Koney or not at all. The SOX will likely decline arbit on both Everett & Lee & try to re-sign them as FA's. It's looking doubtful that this team can be kept together with it's pivotal players. The kids grew up & some are likely to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted September 7, 2003 Author Share Posted September 7, 2003 The main purpose for this thread is some what a concession that we can't beat the BO-SOX in the playoffs this year. If we win the division how do we expect to beat the BO-SOX when: 1) We can't score on their bullpen 2) They have Pedro 3) They are the toughest hitting team in MLB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 I doubt Colon's gonna be back especially at 9 mil, he'd only come back if he continutes his recent great pitching through the playoffs. I read in an article this week that we might go after Livan Hernandez cos JM is familiar with him from those Florida days. Our rotation would then look like this next year, Buerhle Loaziza Garland Hernandez Wright, Cotts or Schowenweis? I think Robbie will be back cheap cos he wants to be in a pennant race and we can offer him that here, $3 Mil sounds pretty resasonable, and Valentin should probably come back for that much as well, maybe less if we can rework his deal. The only JR brings back these players is if we make the playoffs and win a series otherwise we could see another spring cleanout in da works and build around younger players like Cleveland's doin. If you bring Livan Hernandez in here, he'll be the number 3 starter. He's having a good year, and until Garland is ready to explode, I'd leave him in the fourth spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Most of the analysis is spot on because it's all opinion and opinions are good. I would like to see us hang onto Colon. I believe he is better than a 3 games over .500 and at least close or equal to Mark. I believe keeping Mark, Bart, and Estaban together gives us the best 1-2-3 in our division for the next 2-3 years. Let's keep our pitching together and see how the offense turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 1) Valentin- He is way overpaid. I would do everything to not give him his at bats. Sit Valentin so he doesn't get the at-bats needed to reach the contract clause to force resigning for next year? At the expense of what we might be able to do this year? That's nearly )not quite) as illogical an assertion as those of the posters who actually hope the Sox crash and burn just so Manuel will be fired. With 2 fewer errors than Tejada and the same number as Jeter (if I remember from another post I read), a lot of the possible valid criticism of Jose's SS just doesn't hold up this year. I'd like to see more offensive consistency, but I don't agree he's way overpaid. besides, I don't know waht better option we have at that price or less for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Word in the Tampa papers is that the Rays are going to make a big play for Flash. He lives in Avon Park, Fla., and they think they can convince him to pitch for Piniella and stay near home. Just passing along what I hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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