StrangeSox Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 12:59 PM) Again, the NFL Players Association agreed to this process during their collective bargaining agreement negotiations. This is true, but Goodell-as-arbitrator still needs to act fair and impartial. He doesn't, so we get results like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 01:14 PM) I don't recall any personal information being released. Was that of Brady? The two ball guys? Either way, again, Goodell's decision made clear that on several occasions the NFL told Brady they wanted the phone to look at communications about deflating balls and the AFC championship game and that they had no problem with his lawyers creating a log of the texts with redactions for personal messages where necessary. And even more damning to this claim: Brady gave them -- handed over with redacting anything-- TWO personal cell phones, one from way before the time in question and one after the time in question (or maybe he gave them one and the other he offered but the NFL said no thanks that's irrelevant...I can't remember off the top of my head). Of course the one the NFL wanted to look at, the one from around the time of the AFC championship game up to the time the investigation started (like Oct-March I believe), he coincidentally destroyed....again, despite knowing the NFL wanted to look at the texts. In a normal court with a jury, Brady is guilty beyond doubt. That's why this decision is dumb. He's getting off on minor technicalities. Some cop f***ed up paperwork and the criminal gets off free despite convincing circumstantial evidence that he committed the crime. The NFL's own report said that Tom Brady was "probably at least generally aware" of deflating the balls. That's not exactly a strong claim of guilt. There's still not even definitive proof that the balls were intentionally underinflated. edit: I'd also prefer no punishment to over-the-top punishment, so even though Brady/The Patriots really are probably guilty, I'm happier with nothing than with a ridiculous 4 game suspension. Edited September 3, 2015 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gooch Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 01:14 PM) In a normal court with a jury, Brady is guilty beyond doubt. That's why this decision is dumb. He's getting off on minor technicalities. Some cop f***ed up paperwork and the criminal gets off free despite convincing circumstantial evidence that he committed the crime. Going off of what StrangeSox just said. You are saying in a normal court Brady would without a doubt be proven guilty of "probably being generally aware of using deflated footballs?" If it was that cut and dry, I don't think that would have been the language used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I think you can disregard the language that he was using because i'm sure to some extent he wanted to be as soft on Brady as possible while still concluding he violated the rule. You want to punish the face of the league, not call him a big, lying cheater at the same time. I don't see a jury looking at the evidence - the text messages we do have, the names they gave Brady and themselves, testimony from just about every QB and kicker out there that QB's and ballboys are tight and talk about how they like the balls prepared (Jay Feely the other day said it's common you tip the crap out of ballboys to keep the balls how you like them), the incredibly shady move of getting rid of the phone, etc. - and finding any doubt there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 01:17 PM) The NFL's own report said that Tom Brady was "probably at least generally aware" of deflating the balls. That's not exactly a strong claim of guilt. There's still not even definitive proof that the balls were intentionally underinflated. edit: I'd also prefer no punishment to over-the-top punishment, so even though Brady/The Patriots really are probably guilty, I'm happier with nothing than with a ridiculous 4 game suspension. Right and then throw his obstructing actions on top of it and it tips the scale pretty easily to me. There's no legitimate reason for him to destroy that phone knowing for months the NFL wanted to look at it to find out exactly what he and the ballboys were talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I feel like nearly everyone knows Brady knew about the balls. The problem was the four game suspension. If he fines Brady none of this ever happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Brady cheated and smashed a cell phone. Goodell wanted to try to make up for other poor decisions by suspending him 25% of a season. They used the NFL appeals process. That changed nothing. Went to court, were told to work something out. They didn't. Brady gets off with nothing but a legal bill. It's over. Move on. Play football. Watch him get hurt for a few games when he should have been sitting. I don't like Brady as much as the next guy, and the Patriots do seem to have a lot of scandal follow them, and I don't think that's jealousy or unluckiness. But at this point, enough with deflated footballs. Lets talk about how bad the Bears will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Im pretty sure this all stems from the belief that when the CBA was signed that the commissioner was going to be fair. It seems that Goodell has taken his power to an extreme that the NFLPA didnt really believe would happen. Did they partially create this? Absolutely. And I think in the new CBA you are going to see some changes to this process. But right now they still have to try and protect the players so that he cant just call anything detrimental to the league and give out unprecedented suspensions. Ultimately the NFL and its attorneys either a) f***ed up or b) believe they are going to win on appeal. It should have been pretty obvious when the judge implored them to settle that he was likely not going to rule in their favor. It was an all or nothing argument, so the NFL should have just given Brady 1 or 2 games. They already had the penalties against the Patriots. They proved their point. Kind of like merchant of venice, sometimes when youre greedy you lose. Edited September 3, 2015 by Soxbadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I love the never ending argument about this. Never gets old..... I hope people talk about it all year!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gooch Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 01:44 PM) I think you can disregard the language that he was using because i'm sure to some extent he wanted to be as soft on Brady as possible while still concluding he violated the rule. You want to punish the face of the league, not call him a big, lying cheater at the same time. I don't see a jury looking at the evidence - the text messages we do have, the names they gave Brady and themselves, testimony from just about every QB and kicker out there that QB's and ballboys are tight and talk about how they like the balls prepared (Jay Feely the other day said it's common you tip the crap out of ballboys to keep the balls how you like them), the incredibly shady move of getting rid of the phone, etc. - and finding any doubt there. That language was used by the "independent investigator" however and not Roger Goodell. Was there enough evidence there to get Brady and the Patriots punished? Yes. The NFL just handled everything so terribly, that it has to be overturned. The suspension was unprecedented, the report was biased, and the proceedings were unfair. If Goodell was more focused on the interests of the league and due process then this probably would have all been settled with 1 game suspension or a large fine on top of the draft picks and fine the Patriots were already punished with. Unfortunately, he was more obsessed with confirming his power over the league and his personal pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 QUOTE (The Gooch @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 03:08 PM) That language was used by the "independent investigator" however and not Roger Goodell. A lot of the language used, the "More probable than not" or whatever it was, is also the specific standard set in the CBA for the requirement of punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Obviously the judge has Brady in a keeper league. Only explanation for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 02:19 PM) Obviously the judge has Brady in a keeper league. Only explanation for this. And that they have no evidence against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 QUOTE (Brian @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 02:53 PM) And that they have no evidence against him. They have plenty of circumstantial evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 03:42 PM) They have plenty of circumstantial evidence. If they had anything, the federal judge wouldn't have thrown the suspension out. They have a busted phone. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 QUOTE (Brian @ Sep 3, 2015 -> 04:03 PM) If they had anything, the federal judge wouldn't have thrown the suspension out. They have a busted phone. That's it. The ruling had almost nothing to do with the evidence and guilt. It was mainly that the procedure was so one sided that it just was completely unfair and arbitrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 If you believe that Goodell is unable/unwilling to be fair—which isn't crazy to think—then destroying your phone isn't suspicious, it's keeping you from getting framed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Why is no one talking about game 4 of the preseason????!!! This guy had to relax and drink some beers. Maybe that is why everything looked so rosey but man....This Timu fellow looks like a guy. Would not shock me if this time nextbyear we have 2 UDFAs at ILB. Now I wouldnt bet my house on that but yeah, dude looks solid. Anderson as well. Swamp monster looks like he might be a guy too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 DAVID. FALES. Also Carey was very good too. People forget he's actually younger than Langford who they just drafted this year. Should be interesting to see the cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Our running backs look pretty good. Forte/Rodgers/Carey/Langford is good depth. Cuts will be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 The Bears better be looking at the waiver wire pretty hard for O-Line. Ducasse and Leno arent gonna cut it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Back up O-Line play in this league is awful. So hard to find decent back ups. I would bet most teams are looking for some, might have to trade to get anything worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Lost yesterday with all of the Tom Brady news: CB Tim Jennings has signed with the Tampa Bay Bears- er, Bucs. They now have Chris Conte, Major Wright, Isaiah Frey, Henry Melton, Tim Jennings, Khaseem Greene, and Lovie Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 4, 2015 -> 08:14 AM) Lost yesterday with all of the Tom Brady news: CB Tim Jennings has signed with the Tampa Bay Bears- er, Bucs. They now have Chris Conte, Major Wright, Isaiah Frey, Henry Melton, Tim Jennings, Khaseem Greene, and Lovie Smith. This is why you don't put Lovie Smith in charge roster decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Surprise Military Reunions At NFL Games Reach Peak BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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