Rodon believes he's ready now

[LDF]

Awesome post.

 

I think that Rodon should be called up after the extra year of service time is guaranteed, 20 big leauge starts would be ideal with him moving to the bullpen for the playoffs, since you can empty a four man rotation.

 

The thing that intrigues me the most about the Rodon situation is that if he gets called up and is performing well, along with the other members of the rotation, he gives the Sox some trade possibilities should they feel the need to make a move because he makes guys like Noessi and (especially) Danks expendable If the Sox feel like they need to upgrade in an certain or if they want to add more depth to the farm.

 

this is pretty much like last yrs discussion. Danks can't be moved b/c of his contract.

[LDF]

I'll say I straight up disagree on your 2nd paragraph.

 

Take a look at your own argument. Rodon was tired not because he threw a lot of innings but because his pitch counts were high. In other words, he was throwing a lot of pitches, not translating that into a lot of innings, and wound up with fatigue because of it. Is that something you seriously expect to improve while jumping directly from college ball to the big leagues? Big league hitters don't get themselves out easier than guys in college.

 

Based on that set of statements you just, IMO, made an even more convincing case that Rodon for those 20 starts isn't a good idea and that he not only needs time to get stretched out but he has more work to do to be ready for the big leagues, at least for the first couple months.

 

If all Rodon is going to give us is 20 starts and he can't be "Chris Sale dominant" in those 20 starts because he's putting up high pitch counts and not lasting 6+ innings, then we don't need Rodon to help us in the race, we need Rodon to get better and be ready to be a fill in when we need him in the rotation. In fact, based on what you just said, Rodon would not be in a position to "help us in the race" especially if he can't go more than 20 starts.

 

Pitching a guy 20 starts and then expecting someone else who isn't stretched out to fill in for him is nonsense moreso than what you decided to call nonsense on my part.

 

i agree, the thing is, many are unrealistically expecting him just to pick up the ball and give the sox a 150+ innings and playoff. just as many were expecting to come in and just pitch in the majors, without any trail time.

 

come on now. no -one pitcher is going to come in and pitch those innings. even Sale who i thought did it faster than i thought he would, spent time in the minors.

 

i say, let him develop, let the coaches do what they know, let the sox org concentrate fielding this team for the run in 2015 playoff. if after the first month, reanalyze the situation and think it out. but lets not hope that the sox will put all their eggs in a basket now.

 

anyways, the sox FO will do the smart thing.

[LDF]

It is also different because they pitch once a week, not every 5 days.

 

I would think 150-170 innings are about as many as the White Sox would want Rodon to throw in 2015. They have to get the extra year service time, it makes zero sense not to get that. It isn't like Boras will remember you did him a solid and cut you a break later. After that though, if he shows he is one of your top 5 starters, you have to put him in the rotation if you are trying to win, and figure out the innings then. Maybe move him to the bullpen when he is closing on his limit. But not having one of your top 5 starters starting games when you are trying to win makes no sense. Who knows, maybe he gets lit up in Charlotte and they play the same game next year.

 

wow, that is a lot of innings for an untried rookie.

 

i was thinking 75-100 innings, while learning or developing his pitches and building up endurance.

 

[LDF]

That isn't necessarily the case. For whatever reason I can't find IP leaders from the NCAA site for last year, but that could just as easily mean that his coach uses him for a lot of innings in the starts that he gets.

 

esp in the 1 game toward the end of the season where he threw something like 145 pitches?? i mention this in a post of how the coaches can screw up a pitcher.

[lasttriptotulsa]

i agree, the thing is, many are unrealistically expecting him just to pick up the ball and give the sox a 150+ innings and playoff. just as many were expecting to come in and just pitch in the majors, without any trail time.

 

come on now. no -one pitcher is going to come in and pitch those innings. even Sale who i thought did it faster than i thought he would, spent time in the minors.

 

i say, let him develop, let the coaches do what they know, let the sox org concentrate fielding this team for the run in 2015 playoff. if after the first month, reanalyze the situation and think it out. but lets not hope that the sox will put all their eggs in a basket now.

 

anyways, the sox FO will do the smart thing.

 

Sale pitched a grand total of 10.1 innings in the minors before being called. Rodon pitched 24.1 last year. I don't think anybody is expecting Rodon to start right away and be the ace of the staff, but most, I think, feel he will be better than Danks or Noesi right off the bat. He pitched 123 innings last year and 132.1 the year before that. I don't think there is any reason to believe that he can't throw 150-160 innings this year. You really only need 3 starters in the playoffs so if the Sox get there they won't have to worry about burning out Rodon's arm.

[LDF]

Sale pitched a grand total of 10.1 innings in the minors before being called. Rodon pitched 24.1 last year. I don't think anybody is expecting Rodon to start right away and be the ace of the staff, but most, I think, feel he will be better than Danks or Noesi right off the bat. He pitched 123 innings last year and 132.1 the year before that. I don't think there is any reason to believe that he can't throw 150-160 innings this year. You really only need 3 starters in the playoffs so if the Sox get there they won't have to worry about burning out Rodon's arm.

 

then you really need to read other people post, b/c many in the past months has said he will come in and pitch.

 

ref to pitching 150+ why is there rally a need to rush him, if he was having endurance problem last yr, how will he build up to those innings, just b/c he was a very good college pitcher??

 

as i said, i was surprise at Sale and how they handle him. that is why, the coaches will know what to do, we as fans can only guess, which many are doing with Rodon.

 

penciling him and thinking or assuming he will step in and pitched for whomever is nothing but wishful thinking. lets get thru spring training.

[lasttriptotulsa]

then you really need to read other people post, b/c many in the past months has said he will come in and pitch.

 

ref to pitching 150+ why is there rally a need to rush him, if he was having endurance problem last yr, how will he build up to those innings, just b/c he was a very good college pitcher??

 

as i said, i was surprise at Sale and how they handle him. that is why, the coaches will know what to do, we as fans can only guess, which many are doing with Rodon.

 

penciling him and thinking or assuming he will step in and pitched for whomever is nothing but wishful thinking. lets get thru spring training.

 

Having him go from 123 innings to 150 innings is not rushing him. That is the way you build endurance. You push yourself a little further every time/year.

[southsider2k5]

Sale pitched a grand total of 10.1 innings in the minors before being called. Rodon pitched 24.1 last year. I don't think anybody is expecting Rodon to start right away and be the ace of the staff, but most, I think, feel he will be better than Danks or Noesi right off the bat. He pitched 123 innings last year and 132.1 the year before that. I don't think there is any reason to believe that he can't throw 150-160 innings this year. You really only need 3 starters in the playoffs so if the Sox get there they won't have to worry about burning out Rodon's arm.

 

Absolutely correct on that assumption.

[LDF]

Absolutely correct on that assumption.

 

that is an assumption that i would rather deal with an certainty. if the sox has a good load of prospects, that is 1 thing, but the sox do not, plus i would deal with a fact, a player, a pitcher with who has a history who can help the team esp in the playoff.

[LDF]

Having him go from 123 innings to 150 innings is not rushing him. That is the way you build endurance. You push yourself a little further every time/year.

 

the best way to build endurance is in the minors, where a mistake will not cause damages. that is when the coaches will decide when to bring him up.

 

now you are saying 123 - 150 innings. a far cry from 150 + innings you posted earlier.

 

Sale pitched a grand total of 10.1 innings in the minors before being called. Rodon pitched 24.1 last year. I don't think anybody is expecting Rodon to start right away and be the ace of the staff, but most, I think, feel he will be better than Danks or Noesi right off the bat. He pitched 123 innings last year and 132.1 the year before that. I don't think there is any reason to believe that he can't throw 150-160 innings this year. You really only need 3 starters in the playoffs so if the Sox get there they won't have to worry about burning out Rodon's arm.

 

btw, how many innings did he pitched in the minors????

 

[lasttriptotulsa]

the best way to build endurance is in the minors, where a mistake will not cause damages. that is when the coaches will decide when to bring him up.

 

now you are saying 123 - 150 innings. a far cry from 150 + innings you posted earlier.

 

 

 

btw, how many innings did he pitched in the minors????

 

He threw 123 innings last year between college and the minors. I'm saying that going from throwing 123 innings to throwing 150-160 is not that big of a push and unless you push him he will never be able to throw 200+. You saying he should only 75-100 innings this year is pretty absurd. At that rate it would take him 3 or 4 years to get to 200 innings.

Edited March 10, 2015 by lasttriptotulsa

[Balta1701]

He threw 123 innings last year between college and the minors. I'm saying that going from throwing 123 innings to throwing 150-160 is not that big of a push and unless you push him he will never be able to throw 200+. You saying he should only 75-100 innings this year is pretty absurd. At that rate it would take him 3 or 4 years to get to 200 innings.

I agree that 150-160 innings should be the goal.

 

However, I will again note that there's a huge difference between 150 innings at college/minor league level and 150 innings at the major league level.

[LDF]

He threw 123 innings last year between college and the minors. I'm saying that going from throwing 123 innings to throwing 150-160 is not that big of a push and unless you push him he will never be able to throw 200+. You saying he should only 75-100 innings this year is pretty absurd. At that rate it would take him 3 or 4 years to get to 200 innings.

 

of major league innings. get him ready, again the coaches will know more. but the idea for me, have him pitch to improve his overall game, and if needed to pitch with a fresh arm in the playoff. the sox can't assume that none of their SP's will not be injuried. grooming him to pitch and if the talent level is there to continue in the playoff. it is grooming a pitcher who can build on his success at the major league level.

 

yes a team in the playoff needs the Ace's to carry them, but they also need the other pitchers to conceivable give the team with a great possibility to win as well. not to be a black hole.

 

so how are you going to assume he is ready to pitch those 120+ innings, just b/c he was a good college pitcher. btw how bout sticking to a number of what you expect him to pitch, you are making me dizzy with you changing them.

 

btw

 

Sale pitched a grand total of 10.1 innings in the minors before being called. Rodon pitched 24.1 last year. I don't think anybody is expecting Rodon to start right away and be the ace of the staff, but most, I think, feel he will be better than Danks or Noesi right off the bat. He pitched 123 innings last year and 132.1 the year before that. I don't think there is any reason to believe that he can't throw 150-160 innings this year. You really only need 3 starters in the playoffs so if the Sox get there they won't have to worry about burning out Rodon's arm.

 

so are you telling me, you are assuming that since Sale has quick success, Rodon should do the same?

 

injuries happen all time. the org does not need to compound it by overloading his work load, b/c a previous pitcher had success.

[lasttriptotulsa]

of major league innings. get him ready, again the coaches will know more. but the idea for me, have him pitch to improve his overall game, and if needed to pitch with a fresh arm in the playoff. the sox can't assume that none of their SP's will not be injuried. grooming him to pitch and if the talent level is there to continue in the playoff. it is grooming a pitcher who can build on his success at the major league level.

 

yes a team in the playoff needs the Ace's to carry them, but they also need the other pitchers to conceivable give the team with a great possibility to win as well. not to be a black hole.

 

so how are you going to assume he is ready to pitch those 120+ innings, just b/c he was a good college pitcher. btw how bout sticking to a number of what you expect him to pitch, you are making me dizzy with you changing them.

 

btw

 

 

 

so are you telling me, you are assuming that since Sale has quick success, Rodon should do the same?

 

injuries happen all time. the org does not need to compound it by overloading his work load, b/c a previous pitcher had success.

 

You really are not making any sense. I never said that Rodon would be an instant success. You are the one who said that Sale spent time in the minors and that is the reason he was successful so quick. I was simply pointing out that you are full of s***. Sale spent basically zero time in the minors.

 

Every post I've made on here I said Rodon should be in the 150-160 inning range. I challenge you to find where I said any different.

[LDF]

You really are not making any sense. I never said that Rodon would be an instant success. You are the one who said that Sale spent time in the minors and that is the reason he was successful so quick. I was simply pointing out that you are full of s***. Sale spent basically zero time in the minors.

 

Every post I've made on here I said Rodon should be in the 150-160 inning range. I challenge you to find where I said any different.

 

temper, temper.

 

so if i said what you claim i said, show me the link..... prove it to me!!

 

i posted the link where you said 150 - 160, you are right there, i got you mixed up, but assuming that he would go from a 123 college inning to 150+ innings in the majors is very unrealistic.

 

why is there a need to rush him. but it does not matter what we, the fans thinks, it is the coaches.

Edited March 10, 2015 by LDF

[Boopa1219]

this is pretty much like last yrs discussion. Danks can't be moved b/c of his contract.

 

Contract isnt that bad, they owe him $33M. The sox would have to eat half of his salary this year to get a fair return

[Jerksticks]

Rodon can force his way up any time he likes IMO. If the Sox are looking good then I'd love to have him in the bullpen mopping up the days Danks is throwing meatballs or any starter is struggling. Yank them early and maybe Carlos can grab 5 innings. If he destroys AAA then I think Coop can find some use.

[chitownsportsfan]

Contract isnt that bad, they owe him $33M. The sox would have to eat half of his salary this year to get a fair return

 

IMO he's untradeable at this point not because of the money but because of performance. He's not a "bounceback candidate" like say oh, I dunno, Vernon Wells or some s***, he's just a guy that had a major shoulder surgery and now isn't very good because of it.

 

He's like a .5 WAR pitcher, that's not worth trading for, 33 million owed or not.

[LDF]

Rodon can force his way up any time he likes IMO. If the Sox are looking good then I'd love to have him in the bullpen mopping up the days Danks is throwing meatballs or any starter is struggling. Yank them early and maybe Carlos can grab 5 innings. If he destroys AAA then I think Coop can find some use.

 

if he destroying AAA ok, i like the way you are thinking. the bottom line is, i really don't give a rats arse, if he pitches 75 or 100 or even 150 innings. what i would like to see is development time, a fresh arm for when the sox needs him. the sox will need him and all that he has, when playoff time comes around. he has to develop to warrant time in the majors, he may even be that missing piece the sox needs to carry the momentum the sox way.

 

yeah grabbing whatever innings that he and the rest of the bullpen can grab, to help the sox win.

 

excellent post.

Edited March 11, 2015 by LDF

[LDF]

Contract isnt that bad, they owe him $33M. The sox would have to eat half of his salary this year to get a fair return

 

i wish it wasn't true, but it is, i am a huge fan of Danks and i have to see the writing on the wall, so to speak. however i am leaving some hope, his bulldog mentality, that he will learn to become a better pitcher by using what is left to become a better pitcher.

[flavum]

Looking at Rodon, I see a lot of comparison to David Price in terms of career path.

 

Price was drafted in 2007, but didn't play. In 2008, his Age 22 season, he made 19 starts at various levels, and went 110 innings. Then he made his Rays debut in mid-Septmber, and basically was a reliever for the postseason run, and got 20 more innings. Total- 130 innings

 

Then he went back to AAA to start the 2009 season, Age 23. He made 8 starts/34 innings, and an unspectacular 3.93 ERA, but was called up in mid-May. He then made 23 starts for the Rays, over 128 innings, and had his struggles--4.42 ERA. Total- 162 innings

 

Then he went on to have several great seasons starting at Age 24, with mostly 200+ innings. He had one year where he missed about 6 starts. The Rays went 105-65 in his starts.

 

If the Sox are getting Rodon for 6-7 years, let's play this right. He's 22, and has 24 minor league innings under his belt. He needs innings, and there should be no rush to move him up.

 

My hope is that they really don't need him before September, but can use him for their own postseason run.

 

You never know what the need will be during the season, but at the very least get about 40-50 innings in the minors before thinking about calling him up.

[LDF]

Looking at Rodon, I see a lot of comparison to David Price in terms of career path.

 

Price was drafted in 2007, but didn't play. In 2008, his Age 22 season, he made 19 starts at various levels, and went 110 innings. Then he made his Rays debut in mid-Septmber, and basically was a reliever for the postseason run, and got 20 more innings. Total- 130 innings

 

Then he went back to AAA to start the 2009 season, Age 23. He made 8 starts/34 innings, and an unspectacular 3.93 ERA, but was called up in mid-May. He then made 23 starts for the Rays, over 128 innings, and had his struggles--4.42 ERA. Total- 162 innings

 

Then he went on to have several great seasons starting at Age 24, with mostly 200+ innings. He had one year where he missed about 6 starts. The Rays went 105-65 in his starts.

 

If the Sox are getting Rodon for 6-7 years, let's play this right. He's 22, and has 24 minor league innings under his belt. He needs innings, and there should be no rush to move him up.

 

My hope is that they really don't need him before September, but can use him for their own postseason run.

 

You never know what the need will be during the season, but at the very least get about 40-50 innings in the minors before thinking about calling him up.

 

excellent analysis.

 

[caulfield12]

Looking at Rodon, I see a lot of comparison to David Price in terms of career path.

 

Price was drafted in 2007, but didn't play. In 2008, his Age 22 season, he made 19 starts at various levels, and went 110 innings. Then he made his Rays debut in mid-Septmber, and basically was a reliever for the postseason run, and got 20 more innings. Total- 130 innings

 

Then he went back to AAA to start the 2009 season, Age 23. He made 8 starts/34 innings, and an unspectacular 3.93 ERA, but was called up in mid-May. He then made 23 starts for the Rays, over 128 innings, and had his struggles--4.42 ERA. Total- 162 innings

 

Then he went on to have several great seasons starting at Age 24, with mostly 200+ innings. He had one year where he missed about 6 starts. The Rays went 105-65 in his starts.

 

If the Sox are getting Rodon for 6-7 years, let's play this right. He's 22, and has 24 minor league innings under his belt. He needs innings, and there should be no rush to move him up.

 

My hope is that they really don't need him before September, but can use him for their own postseason run.

 

You never know what the need will be during the season, but at the very least get about 40-50 innings in the minors before thinking about calling him up.

 

Very well said, we can go ahead and hope for 140, 150, 160-170...but that would be about the absolute max, and it will probably be closer to the lower than higher number IMO.

 

More importantly, we shouldn't expect domination out of the gate. OTOH, times have changed dramatically for baseball offenses during the over half decade since PRICE debuted. 4.42 ERA would be 3.8-4.2 these days, depending on the competition in your division, stadiums, etc. (like NL West vs. AL East).

Edited March 11, 2015 by caulfield12

[elrockinMT]

Rodon got smacked around by Texas for three runs in the first inning today. Plus he gave them a run with a WP. I guess he is not ready yet. Plus John Danks is not going anywhere and can still pitch effectively. Too many people live off one game or some sttaement made by someone. It's ST people not the stretch run