Job Thread

[Chicago White Sox]

18 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Nope. Just told me to go away. 

They told you to “go away”.  Seems like there is a lot more to this story you’re not sharing.  And if that’s truly all they said, you should have certainly demanded a reason.

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

They told you to “go away”.  Seems like there is a lot more to this story you’re not sharing.  And if that’s truly all they said, you should have certainly demanded a reason.

No, there isn't. I'm convinced it's HR in their ear telling them not to say anything because they don't want to work with a person on the spectrum, and they have to protect themselves legally. Those were my words, not theirs. I know what it is, the job didn't have a lot of structure and I didn't have enough time to acclimate, and they didn't want to wait for me to do so. 

[Kyyle23]

20 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

No, there isn't. I'm convinced it's HR in their ear telling them not to say anything because they don't want to work with a person on the spectrum, and they have to protect themselves legally. Those were my words, not theirs. I know what it is, the job didn't have a lot of structure and I didn't have enough time to acclimate, and they didn't want to wait for me to do so. 

When you were hired, did they not know that you were on the spectrum? Firing you like you are saying is the risky legal process, not keeping you there.

[Jack Parkman]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

When you were hired, did they not know that you were on the spectrum? Firing you like you are saying is the risky legal process, not keeping you there.

No they knew. 

[Texsox]

Companies are not obligated to offer a reason. Most states are "right to work" states and employees are "at will" which makes actually firing someone not risky unless for protected reasons like discrimination (carefully defined by law) or retaliation. 

 

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, Texsox said:

Companies are not obligated to offer a reason. Most states are "right to work" states and employees are "at will" which makes actually firing someone not risky unless for protected reasons like discrimination (carefully defined by law) or retaliation. 

 

Especially if you are in a probationary period, which most employees are when they start.

[bigruss]

On 5/17/2020 at 11:53 AM, Jack Parkman said:

No, there isn't. I'm convinced it's HR in their ear telling them not to say anything because they don't want to work with a person on the spectrum, and they have to protect themselves legally. Those were my words, not theirs. I know what it is, the job didn't have a lot of structure and I didn't have enough time to acclimate, and they didn't want to wait for me to do so. 

2 days man...look I can't begin to fathom what you are going through but there's obviously a change in approach or something needed here.  I've seen some weird shit, I've had people disappear without a word, I've had people come in that were clearly different than from video interviews, etc, but I've never fired someone who didn't lie about credentials blatantly 2 days into a job.  It would take something pretty big for that to occur, can you shed more light on your interactions with team members and the manager in that time period on what could have set that into motion?

[Jack Parkman]

11 hours ago, bigruss said:

2 days man...look I can't begin to fathom what you are going through but there's obviously a change in approach or something needed here.  I've seen some weird shit, I've had people disappear without a word, I've had people come in that were clearly different than from video interviews, etc, but I've never fired someone who didn't lie about credentials blatantly 2 days into a job.  It would take something pretty big for that to occur, can you shed more light on your interactions with team members and the manager in that time period on what could have set that into motion?

I honestly have no idea......I could have unknowingly broken the social rules, but I really have no clue what the hell I did. 

I had 2 zoom meetings with my managers on the first day and then the second day was on 100% on Slack. All WFH shit. The next day they brought me in just to fire me. 

I guess asking for more detailed instructions might have been an issue, or sending a slack message late at night on day 2 (I had forgotten that the guy wasn't on the West Coast so I momentarily thought he was 2 hours behind me...It would have been 7pm in that case....I wasn't expecting it to be answered immediately anyway. 

I don't remember doing anything so inappropriate as to get fired in 48 hours...unless I did do something in which I have no idea what it is. 

[bigruss]

When you say you asked for more instruction, what does that entail specifically?

[Jack Parkman]

54 minutes ago, bigruss said:

When you say you asked for more instruction, what does that entail specifically?

I was in a software testing role, I just wanted more specifics about which features that needed to be tested. Like the feature within the feature. I've done it long enough to know that it's really hard to find stuff in exploratory testing without knowing where to look. I didn't even have enough time to learn the ins and outs of the software. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Iwritecode]

3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

The next day they brought me in just to fire me. 

So it was a face to face meeting? Something had to have been said here.

[Jack Parkman]

39 minutes ago, Iwritecode said:

So it was a face to face meeting? Something had to have been said here.

No. They let me mess around with the website for an hour, told me that I'd used up my hours for the week, and then they messaged me on slack and said that I wasn't a good fit for their company. That's as far as it went. 

[pettie4sox]

How do you guys feel about at will employment?  Do you feel it's mutually beneficial for employer and employee or only good for the employer?  The reason I ask is because I was let go from a job in the past but they never told me a reason.  I ask this question for growth potential purposes but if they withhold the info then how can you realistically get better?  I know it's not their prerogative to share but it just seems odd.  I know employment is probably a legalese mindfield and they don't want to give you any information to sue but I'm just curious how as a worker you can protect yourself situations like this?

[Texsox]

43 minutes ago, pettie4sox said:

How do you guys feel about at will employment?  Do you feel it's mutually beneficial for employer and employee or only good for the employer?  The reason I ask is because I was let go from a job in the past but they never told me a reason.  I ask this question for growth potential purposes but if they withhold the info then how can you realistically get better?  I know it's not their prerogative to share but it just seems odd.  I know employment is probably a legalese mindfield and they don't want to give you any information to sue but I'm just curious how as a worker you can protect yourself situations like this?

It does seem to benefit the employer more. I can only think of one time that "right to work" helped an employee. We had an employee leave us to work for a new to the market competitor. They made everyone sign non compete clauses that were really one sided. Then after the salespeople brought their existing customers into the company they quickly started firing people. It was a huge revolving door for about a year or two. It got their foot in the door and they even kept a lot of the customers after the reps were let go because . . .

They also aggressively pursued anyone who accepted a position in the industry citing the non comp that everyone signed. They sent us a "presumptive letter" threatening legal action if we interviewed any of their previous employees. Eventually ex employees went to court and were allowed to work for competitors under that right to work. But generally it allows people to be fired easily. 

Also, remember these are basically union busting laws so realize which party favors workers and which one believes workers benefit when the owners are allowed to make the most profits without interference. 

[greg775]

56 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

No. They let me mess around with the website for an hour, told me that I'd used up my hours for the week, and then they messaged me on slack and said that I wasn't a good fit for their company. That's as far as it went. 

Did you say you had a person to person meeting? Was it a dress issue? Did you show up in shorts? I feel your pain, Jack. But it seems the company is liable for a lawsuit in firing you without a reason. When you slacked at night did you sense irritation on their part? Did your questions set them off that you would be too needy? Take care. Hang in there. You'll find your niche.

But it might be smart to do a mock interview or session with somebody on Soxtalk who is a manager who could assess the situation. I bet some folks on here would help u. GO SOX! and take care.

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Did you say you had a person to person meeting? Was it a dress issue? Did you show up in shorts? I feel your pain, Jack. But it seems the company is liable for a lawsuit in firing you without a reason. When you slacked at night did you sense irritation on their part? Did your questions set them off that you would be too needy? Take care. Hang in there. You'll find your niche.

But it might be smart to do a mock interview or session with somebody on Soxtalk who is a manager who could assess the situation. I bet some folks on here would help u. GO SOX! and take care.

That's my sense, that the frequency of my questions rubbed them that I'm too needy. 

I was going to mess with their production website so I had better ideas of where to look this week, but I never got the opportunity. 

Also, sometimes I have momentary lapses where I forget the scope of the project, mostly due to misinterpretation of directions. That bugs some people.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Iwritecode]

23 hours ago, greg775 said:

But it seems the company is liable for a lawsuit in firing you without a reason.

Not in Illinois.

[greg775]

21 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

That's my sense, that the frequency of my questions rubbed them that I'm too needy. 

I was going to mess with their production website so I had better ideas of where to look this week, but I never got the opportunity. 

Also, sometimes I have momentary lapses where I forget the scope of the project, mostly due to misinterpretation of directions. That bugs some people.

Jack: I have a buddy who got laid off who parks cars for Avis and loves the job. He also is a security guard at a large concert venue. I know you are qualified for desk work but seeing that you may not be a good fit for desk work where u are confined, would you consider those type jobs? I bet if u applied you'd get jobs like that within six months. Or be a consultant from home? Or an IT worker for a big company from home?

[soxfan49]

8 hours ago, greg775 said:

Jack: I have a buddy who got laid off who parks cars for Avis and loves the job. He also is a security guard at a large concert venue. I know you are qualified for desk work but seeing that you may not be a good fit for desk work where u are confined, would you consider those type jobs? I bet if u applied you'd get jobs like that within six months. Or be a consultant from home? Or an IT worker for a big company from home?

Good call. Maybe even an underwriter of some kind- they primarily work from home- whether it be life insurance, mortgage lending, etc.

[NorthSideSox72]

23 hours ago, Iwritecode said:

Not in Illinois.

Not in any state other than Montana (seriously).

There are reasons you can't fire someone, particularly due to status in a protected class (can't fire on race, religion, disability, that sort of thing). But as long as it's not one of those things, companies can fire you whenever they want, pretty much. Just like you can quit pretty much whenever you want.

And even on disability and religion, there are limits on the hiring side. Companies can require active duty for certain stretches of time, ability to handle certain manual labor, etc., as long as it is directly necessary for the job and cannot be modified with reasonable accommodations.

 

[pettie4sox]

Job Option A:

Full time position, OK pay, great stability but somewhat of dead end job that you can coast through easily

Job Option B:

Contract to Hire, Great pay, potentially learning great skills for the future, tough, unknown future

[Dick Allen]

2 hours ago, pettie4sox said:

Job Option A:

Full time position, OK pay, great stability but somewhat of dead end job that you can coast through easily

Job Option B:

Contract to Hire, Great pay, potentially learning great skills for the future, tough, unknown future

If you are younger and don't have a family to support, B seems like an obvious choice.

[Jack Parkman]

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/12/meritocracy/418074/?utm_campaign=the-atlantic&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR15vP9FTfDVGcTZ3xcwan8A8KNbefyrTcqWK6-LkPqSm3M1-rGhRjKxl_M

[The Beast]

Alright, so I’m curious what people think.

I finished my graduate program with my 2020 version of a MBA with a MS in Data Science in late May and I passed the day that I owed them anything for my graduate degree in late July. I consider myself lucky since I paid for only a fifth of my degree and the company paid the rest.

There are a few things going on right now. My wife is due in early November and I intend on staying and using my company’s paid family leave (along with staying for a yearly company bonus). I recently applied for an internal position as an analyst for a division I am not familiar with that would have required someone with polished SQL and Python skills, something I haven’t had lots of experience with except for helping with a few internal projects. I was told I didn’t get it because of lack of professional experience. The job I do now doesn’t give me that experience and is something I can do in my sleep, even though it does give me the possibility of doing overtime each day since one of our divisions is busy.

My job prospects at the company appear to be limited and no matter what  I will always be virtual with a small office downtown but with the larger offices on the coasts. I also have tried to volunteer for projects and have done whatever work I can do to get experience, but I wouldn’t say that some divisions want to train to help others build experience and I didn’t get good feedback from one of the teams I volunteered for, saying I wasn’t good with pulling data when I was there to learn.

At the moment the only opportunities I am considering rely on a personal connection and a relationship I have developed by volunteering for a project and showing what I can offer with the work I’m interested in. 
 

Opportunity A: An analyst role working with healthcare data at a different company where I would have to learn a lot, take a step back with something that is more entry level but uses the skills I have learned and should pay similarly.

Opportunity B: A project management and data analysis position that works with sales data, works to develop sales tools, implements Salesforce in the long run and works in the division I like. This position depends on management’s willingness to give some of the data analysis work to this team instead of keeping it on one team (a team I didn’t get good feedback from). This position also depends on the budget.

I guess what I’m curious about is what some of you who have lived through kids would do with my situation. How would you take the feedback I have been given and what would you do to get the experience? For those who code, how else could I learn SQL and Python, especially without much direction? What option sounds better? Is there anything I could do to learn Salesforce since I haven’t used it before?
 

I’m seeking more money and more interesting work and recognize that there’s a COVID economy going on right now so I am grateful to have a job and options, but I feel stuck. I appreciate any thoughts.

[gatnom]

2 hours ago, The Beast said:

Alright, so I’m curious what people think.

I finished my graduate program with my 2020 version of a MBA with a MS in Data Science in late May and I passed the day that I owed them anything for my graduate degree in late July. I consider myself lucky since I paid for only a fifth of my degree and the company paid the rest.

There are a few things going on right now. My wife is due in early November and I intend on staying and using my company’s paid family leave (along with staying for a yearly company bonus). I recently applied for an internal position as an analyst for a division I am not familiar with that would have required someone with polished SQL and Python skills, something I haven’t had lots of experience with except for helping with a few internal projects. I was told I didn’t get it because of lack of professional experience. The job I do now doesn’t give me that experience and is something I can do in my sleep, even though it does give me the possibility of doing overtime each day since one of our divisions is busy.

My job prospects at the company appear to be limited and no matter what  I will always be virtual with a small office downtown but with the larger offices on the coasts. I also have tried to volunteer for projects and have done whatever work I can do to get experience, but I wouldn’t say that some divisions want to train to help others build experience and I didn’t get good feedback from one of the teams I volunteered for, saying I wasn’t good with pulling data when I was there to learn.

At the moment the only opportunities I am considering rely on a personal connection and a relationship I have developed by volunteering for a project and showing what I can offer with the work I’m interested in. 
 

Opportunity A: An analyst role working with healthcare data at a different company where I would have to learn a lot, take a step back with something that is more entry level but uses the skills I have learned and should pay similarly.

Opportunity B: A project management and data analysis position that works with sales data, works to develop sales tools, implements Salesforce in the long run and works in the division I like. This position depends on management’s willingness to give some of the data analysis work to this team instead of keeping it on one team (a team I didn’t get good feedback from). This position also depends on the budget.

I guess what I’m curious about is what some of you who have lived through kids would do with my situation. How would you take the feedback I have been given and what would you do to get the experience? For those who code, how else could I learn SQL and Python, especially without much direction? What option sounds better? Is there anything I could do to learn Salesforce since I haven’t used it before?
 

I’m seeking more money and more interesting work and recognize that there’s a COVID economy going on right now so I am grateful to have a job and options, but I feel stuck. I appreciate any thoughts.

It's all about finding the type of job you want and just getting lucky enough to get hired. One way or another, you will end up learning on the job when you're getting paid. For example, my current job I had basically used none of their languages or technologies and still got hired because they liked me as a candidate and felt they could teach me whatever I didn't learn myself. (I did have five years in the field in general, so it's not a totally fair example. But, by and large this is how it works for everybody)

Assuming the thing you really want is to move into a data science / programming position, the sooner you move into it the better. Taking a meandering kinda-sorta approach is only going to leave you feeling disappointed and probably like you still haven't learned "enough". If the pay, job security, added stress of switching careers, etc. is all good with you and your family (and the job responsibilities are what you're looking for), I would take opportunity A if I were you. But, there's a lot of details here that only you can answer. Opportunity B kind of sounds like they'd be jerking you around a bit, IMO.

If you decide to stick it out at your current spot and look for a better fit, the best thing you can do is pick a project that you're interested in that requires the skills that you need and just do it. It doesn't need to be useful, special, or even good in the end; you will learn some skills along the way that will help you get hired. Keep repeating this process and dedicating yourself to getting better, and you will get there eventually. If you don't know what to do or how to do it, just Google it; that's mostly what "professional experience" is anyways. Googling "personal data science projects in Python" (or whatever is more relevant to you) is honestly probably a decent way to get started. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by gatnom