Job Thread

[The Beast]

On 9/23/2020 at 10:54 PM, gatnom said:

It's all about finding the type of job you want and just getting lucky enough to get hired. One way or another, you will end up learning on the job when you're getting paid. For example, my current job I had basically used none of their languages or technologies and still got hired because they liked me as a candidate and felt they could teach me whatever I didn't learn myself. (I did have five years in the field in general, so it's not a totally fair example. But, by and large this is how it works for everybody)

Assuming the thing you really want is to move into a data science / programming position, the sooner you move into it the better. Taking a meandering kinda-sorta approach is only going to leave you feeling disappointed and probably like you still haven't learned "enough". If the pay, job security, added stress of switching careers, etc. is all good with you and your family (and the job responsibilities are what you're looking for), I would take opportunity A if I were you. But, there's a lot of details here that only you can answer. Opportunity B kind of sounds like they'd be jerking you around a bit, IMO.

If you decide to stick it out at your current spot and look for a better fit, the best thing you can do is pick a project that you're interested in that requires the skills that you need and just do it. It doesn't need to be useful, special, or even good in the end; you will learn some skills along the way that will help you get hired. Keep repeating this process and dedicating yourself to getting better, and you will get there eventually. If you don't know what to do or how to do it, just Google it; that's mostly what "professional experience" is anyways. Googling "personal data science projects in Python" (or whatever is more relevant to you) is honestly probably a decent way to get started. 

What do you do? What languages did you know and how did you get experience?

I am hoping that I will get the opportunity to learn on the job while getting paid because over the past few years I have just worked on data projects in school and at work without pay. I have felt like some people at my company have jerked me around. But they must not see that I am coachable or comprehend that not everyone is on an expert level when they get hired.

I want to do something where I can use skills as an actual analyst where I can get good with SQL and Python and help with data driven solutions. I am interested in getting rid of redundancies and waste in health care and insurance industries but I need a position where I can do that and implement solutions. I might go for an entirely different career in the future (one that won’t be automated) but I want to see where things take me for now.

My wife and I have saved quite a bit and while we will be living on one income while she’s on maternity leave, I would take the risk for option A. I reached out to my contact for opportunities in the new year since I could still take paid family leave and leave after that. I am intending on going through option B and showing that team’s boss that I understand his pain points, what he is trying to accomplish and propose solutions. That way he can see how I can help and he can see how I work.

I appreciate your suggestions for practicing Python through projects. I’ll see what I can before the baby arrives and continue to develop from there. Thanks again for your thoughts.

[Iwritecode]

I started my programming career learning COBOL in college. Then I got a job that used COBOL and PL/1 which are very similair. I learned a couple of other programming languages in college including C, RPG and even assembler but I haven't used any one of them in years.

For me, COBOL was a good base language to learn. It kinda gave me the basics of everything and how programming works. Since then I've been able to pick up other languages fairly easily. 

I use SQL and VB.net in my current job everyday even though I wasn't all that familiar with them when I first started. I took a free python programming course through Coursera a few years ago. I don't know if they still offer free courses or not but that might be something to look into. LearningTree is another one that I know of but you have to pay for their courses.

 

Honestly though, going back to COBOL you'd be amazed at how many businesses still use that language today. My last job was thrilled to hire me because I was one of the few people under the age of 40 that actually knew it.

[The Beast]

3 hours ago, Iwritecode said:

I started my programming career learning COBOL in college. Then I got a job that used COBOL and PL/1 which are very similair. I learned a couple of other programming languages in college including C, RPG and even assembler but I haven't used any one of them in years.

For me, COBOL was a good base language to learn. It kinda gave me the basics of everything and how programming works. Since then I've been able to pick up other languages fairly easily. 

I use SQL and VB.net in my current job everyday even though I wasn't all that familiar with them when I first started. I took a free python programming course through Coursera a few years ago. I don't know if they still offer free courses or not but that might be something to look into. LearningTree is another one that I know of but you have to pay for their courses.

 

Honestly though, going back to COBOL you'd be amazed at how many businesses still use that language today. My last job was thrilled to hire me because I was one of the few people under the age of 40 that actually knew it.

I appreciate it. Learning SQL, Python and even JavaScipt would be great depending on if I did web development and data analysis. Using online platforms like DataCamp or LinkedIn Learning can help, but having experience would be best. That is why personal projects could really help. That is interesting how they we’re thrilled to hire you because you knew COBOL.

Edited September 28, 2020 by The Beast

[Iwritecode]

11 minutes ago, The Beast said:

That is interesting how they we’re thrilled to hire you because you knew COBOL.

The average age of the programmers at that job was somewhere around 55. And 2 or 3 of them retired within a year after I was hired. Hardly any schools teach it anymore but it's in use at a lot of companies. My last 2 jobs both had hundreds of programs that were written in COBOL. And they work so they don't want to spend the money to convert all them them into a different language.

Although I've heard of people that made pretty good money traveling around the country to the few companies that did decide they wanted to convert their programs over.

[gatnom]

On 9/25/2020 at 11:00 PM, The Beast said:

What do you do? What languages did you know and how did you get experience?

I am hoping that I will get the opportunity to learn on the job while getting paid because over the past few years I have just worked on data projects in school and at work without pay. I have felt like some people at my company have jerked me around. But they must not see that I am coachable or comprehend that not everyone is on an expert level when they get hired.

I want to do something where I can use skills as an actual analyst where I can get good with SQL and Python and help with data driven solutions. I am interested in getting rid of redundancies and waste in health care and insurance industries but I need a position where I can do that and implement solutions. I might go for an entirely different career in the future (one that won’t be automated) but I want to see where things take me for now.

My wife and I have saved quite a bit and while we will be living on one income while she’s on maternity leave, I would take the risk for option A. I reached out to my contact for opportunities in the new year since I could still take paid family leave and leave after that. I am intending on going through option B and showing that team’s boss that I understand his pain points, what he is trying to accomplish and propose solutions. That way he can see how I can help and he can see how I work.

I appreciate your suggestions for practicing Python through projects. I’ll see what I can before the baby arrives and continue to develop from there. Thanks again for your thoughts.

I'm a generalist software engineer. My current job uses Haskell primarily, but I have used lots of other languages like C/C++, Rust, C#, JavaScript, Python, SQL, etc. Once you learn a language or two you can kind of figure anything out. I learned the basics of programming in school, but otherwise every language except C/C++ and Java I learned on the job. Nowadays, there are plenty of free resources online to learn basically anything, so those would be just as good of a starting point as any traditional degree.

The main thing is just building your resume until you can get that first opportunity. It can be a tough process, but it's not too much different from looking for a job in any other field. Feel free to reach out on here if you have any questions. I am not exactly in the field you're looking for, but I may be of some help depending on the question.

 

[The Beast]

14 hours ago, gatnom said:

I'm a generalist software engineer. My current job uses Haskell primarily, but I have used lots of other languages like C/C++, Rust, C#, JavaScript, Python, SQL, etc. Once you learn a language or two you can kind of figure anything out. I learned the basics of programming in school, but otherwise every language except C/C++ and Java I learned on the job. Nowadays, there are plenty of free resources online to learn basically anything, so those would be just as good of a starting point as any traditional degree.

The main thing is just building your resume until you can get that first opportunity. It can be a tough process, but it's not too much different from looking for a job in any other field. Feel free to reach out on here if you have any questions. I am not exactly in the field you're looking for, but I may be of some help depending on the question.

 

Thanks for your willingness to help and for sharing your experience. I have heard of React and started to learn JavaScript before the start of my data science program. It’s also good to know that if you can pick up a language or two you can figure other ones out.

Right now, I am going to go back to the manager of option B and show my understanding of problems in his area of business, my thoughts on how to approach them and propose a plan on how to proceed. Doing so would at least let him see how I think and would be a different approach than just reaching out for work. Aside from that, I will be busy with the baby for the foreseeable future (in November), but I could focus some time to practicing languages to keep them fresh and potentially build on them. I’m not married to working in data science as much as I am wanting to use the skills I have learned to be an analyst or pick up web development, so maybe that flexibility is a good thing.

[Bob Sacamano]

I need some advice. Has anyone here ever left a bad work environment (long hours, 50-60 hours ever week, signing off anywhere between 8pm-2am every day) in favor of a better work environment (my friend at this company says he is busy, but never has to work past 5, ever), but slightly less pay? I would make about $2k less than I make now but my work life/balance would be incredible. I have an offer letter from the company and weighing the pros and cons of staying and leaving. Thanks in advance.

Edit: for reference so others could relate, I am an accountant.

Edited February 18, 2021 by manbearpuig

[Iwritecode]

5 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

I need some advice. Has anyone here ever left a bad work environment (long hours, 50-60 hours ever week, signing off anywhere between 8pm-2am every day) in favor of a better work environment (my friend at this company says he is busy, but never has to work past 5, ever), but slightly less pay? I would make about $2k less than I make now but my work life/balance would be incredible. I have an offer letter from the company and weighing the pros and cons of staying and leaving. Thanks in advance.

Edit: for reference so others could relate, I am an accountant.

I was laid off from my first job in 2009 and basically had to take what I could find afterwards.  I ended up getting a job where I was literally making twice the money but my commute was 2 hours minimum one-way. Most days I was leaving the house between 5:30 and 6AM and not getting home until after 7PM.  I'd eat dinner, then go to bed.

The money was great but I was tired all the time and had almost zero time to spend with my family except on weekends and holidays. 

After almost 5 years of dealing with that I ended up finding my current job that is 10 minutes from my house. The people are great, the hours are great and the pay, while less than what I was making before, is still pretty good. I'm much, much happier now. Plus I have a lot more free time to enjoy my hobbies.

Basically, don't work yourself to death for a job that would replace you within a week if you left. Live your life and spend as much time with your friends and family as possible.

[Bob Sacamano]

13 minutes ago, Iwritecode said:

I was laid off from my first job in 2009 and basically had to take what I could find afterwards.  I ended up getting a job where I was literally making twice the money but my commute was 2 hours minimum one-way. Most days I was leaving the house between 5:30 and 6AM and not getting home until after 7PM.  I'd eat dinner, then go to bed.

The money was great but I was tired all the time and had almost zero time to spend with my family except on weekends and holidays. 

After almost 5 years of dealing with that I ended up finding my current job that is 10 minutes from my house. The people are great, the hours are great and the pay, while less than what I was making before, is still pretty good. I'm much, much happier now. Plus I have a lot more free time to enjoy my hobbies.

Basically, don't work yourself to death for a job that would replace you within a week if you left. Live your life and spend as much time with your friends and family as possible.

The best advice. Thanks. I just know if i didn't take the job and I kept working the way I am, I would regret not taking this job. It also helps that I know someone there who also worked at my current job. He says it's comparing night and day and his life is so improved. I just also hate that I am giving up a bonus as well, that is usually paid in December but was pushed back to Q2 of this year because of the pandemic. It wouldn't have been as much as a regular year but still. 

Never working past 5, including the busy part of the year, sounds amazing though...

Edit: I do try to put a positive spin on it by saying my salary fornuately was not effected in the past year, other than not receiving year end bonus.

Edited February 18, 2021 by manbearpuig

[southsider2k5]

27 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

I need some advice. Has anyone here ever left a bad work environment (long hours, 50-60 hours ever week, signing off anywhere between 8pm-2am every day) in favor of a better work environment (my friend at this company says he is busy, but never has to work past 5, ever), but slightly less pay? I would make about $2k less than I make now but my work life/balance would be incredible. I have an offer letter from the company and weighing the pros and cons of staying and leaving. Thanks in advance.

Edit: for reference so others could relate, I am an accountant.

The best thing I ever did was take a paycut to leave a job I hated for one that paid less, but was more suited to me.    It didn't take me much time to advance and make up the dollar difference.  It is also sometimes worth leaving some dollars on the table to make your life balance better.  I got headhunted a few years back and told the guy initially it would take 10's of thousands more dollars to get me think about leaving the job I was at now.  Then they I started thinking about adding back the commuting times again, and declined to interview further because I can essentially make my own schedule here.

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

The best thing I ever did was take a paycut to leave a job I hated for one that paid less, but was more suited to me.    It didn't take me much time to advance and make up the dollar difference.  It is also sometimes worth leaving some dollars on the table to make your life balance better.  I got headhunted a few years back and told the guy initially it would take 10's of thousands more dollars to get me think about leaving the job I was at now.  Then they I started thinking about adding back the commuting times again, and declined to interview further because I can essentially make my own schedule here.

That sounds fantastic. Thanks for that. It is a job located in the city (not that they are in the office now) and they said even when they go back, they would likely be flexible as long as your work is done on time so having the flexibility in your day to get other smal things done in your life is a nice option to have.

It would be nice to enjoy my hobbies again and feel less stressed out all the time, even on my days off. I think this decision will pay off for me. You can't put a dollar figure on your mental health.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

That sounds fantastic. Thanks for that. It is a job located in the city (not that they are in the office now) and they said even when they go back, they would likely be flexible as long as your work is done on time so having the flexibility in your day to get other smal things done in your life is a nice option to have.

It would be nice to enjoy my hobbies again and feel less stressed out all the time, even on my days off. I think this decision will pay off for me. You can't put a dollar figure on your mental health.

Yeah, having down time alone is good for the mind.

[Iwritecode]

26 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

That sounds fantastic. Thanks for that. It is a job located in the city (not that they are in the office now) and they said even when they go back, they would likely be flexible as long as your work is done on time so having the flexibility in your day to get other smal things done in your life is a nice option to have.

It would be nice to enjoy my hobbies again and feel less stressed out all the time, even on my days off. I think this decision will pay off for me. You can't put a dollar figure on your mental health.

That's another thing that's a huge night/day difference between my last job and this one. 

At my last job everyone worked 8A - 5P and took lunch between 12 & 1. No exceptions. 

At my current job we have people that come in anywhere between 5AM and 8AM.  My boss is super easy-going about our schedules being flexible if we need to come in late or leave early as well.  For the most part as long as you work your 8 hours and the job is getting done, it's all good.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Iwritecode

[Bob Sacamano]

On 2/18/2021 at 9:16 AM, manbearpuig said:

I need some advice. Has anyone here ever left a bad work environment (long hours, 50-60 hours ever week, signing off anywhere between 8pm-2am every day) in favor of a better work environment (my friend at this company says he is busy, but never has to work past 5, ever), but slightly less pay? I would make about $2k less than I make now but my work life/balance would be incredible. I have an offer letter from the company and weighing the pros and cons of staying and leaving. Thanks in advance.

Edit: for reference so others could relate, I am an accountant.

Two weeks in, this is the best decision I have ever made.

[CentralChamps21]

On 2/18/2021 at 9:16 AM, manbearpuig said:

I need some advice. Has anyone here ever left a bad work environment (long hours, 50-60 hours ever week, signing off anywhere between 8pm-2am every day) in favor of a better work environment (my friend at this company says he is busy, but never has to work past 5, ever), but slightly less pay? I would make about $2k less than I make now but my work life/balance would be incredible. I have an offer letter from the company and weighing the pros and cons of staying and leaving. Thanks in advance.

Edit: for reference so others could relate, I am an accountant.

My dad did this. We lived in the SW burbs and he was commuting an hour each way to the Loop on top of working 9-10 hour days. He hated it. When I was 14, he quit to go into business for himself. We had to sell the house and move to a less expensive (and far less taxed) house in NW IN. It was a tough adjustment but he's been a much more present and happy person since the move.

[Texsox]

22 hours ago, manbearpuig said:

Two weeks in, this is the best decision I have ever made.

Thirteen years for me after pulling the cord. And also substantial pay cut. Worth every dollar. 

I'm glad it's working out. Hopefully you get a nice raise and it's a win win. Also, I noticed I didn't need to spend as much to be happy. I figured out later I was spending a lot of money trying to solve being stressed at my job. 

[Bob Sacamano]

On 4/1/2021 at 7:25 PM, manbearpuig said:

Two weeks in, this is the best decision I have ever made.

A little over 2 months in, this is the happiest I have ever been in my professional career (for reference, I am 30). So happy that I decided to leave my last job.

[Chicago White Sox]

39 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

A little over 2 months in, this is the happiest I have ever been in my professional career (for reference, I am 30). So happy that I decided to leave my last job.

That’s awesome to hear.  Everyone has to work rough hours for stretches, but if there isn’t a light at the end of the tunnel you got jump ship.  Life is too short to endure that stress, especially if you can find better balance without taking a huge pay cut.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, manbearpuig said:

A little over 2 months in, this is the happiest I have ever been in my professional career (for reference, I am 30). So happy that I decided to leave my last job.

Companies that make people work 60 and don't pay overtime are despicable. Kudos to you.

[Texsox]

On 5/24/2021 at 6:43 PM, greg775 said:

Companies that make people work 60 and don't pay overtime are despicable. Kudos to you.

I worked 50 plus hours a week for a couple decades while on salary. Just because overtime isn't a line item on your check, the compensation was built into the salary structure. 

[pettie4sox]

Struggling at work right now.  My boss' boss has a stick up her ass about me and I am giving her no ammo to do anything.  She is just trying to make my life miserable at work.  I am just biding my time for the bonus so I can slide out of this position.  Any advice on how to cope?

[Texsox]

On 1/11/2024 at 3:23 PM, pettie4sox said:

Struggling at work right now.  My boss' boss has a stick up her ass about me and I am giving her no ammo to do anything.  She is just trying to make my life miserable at work.  I am just biding my time for the bonus so I can slide out of this position.  Any advice on how to cope?

Dissociate quickly each day. Focus on what is making you happy each day. Even when you have a job you love there are periods when it isn't great. For me September is hell then it gets really great then February and March get tough again. Once I realized that, I could cope with the bad stretches. 

Good luck. 

[The Beast]

On 1/11/2024 at 3:23 PM, pettie4sox said:

Struggling at work right now.  My boss' boss has a stick up her ass about me and I am giving her no ammo to do anything.  She is just trying to make my life miserable at work.  I am just biding my time for the bonus so I can slide out of this position.  Any advice on how to cope?

When is the bonus paid out?

Edited January 14 by The Beast

[pettie4sox]

Late March, Early April I believe.

[Texsox]

11 hours ago, pettie4sox said:

Late March, Early April I believe.

Any vacation time you can take? Even if it's a staycation, you can avoid being in the office.

Do you have another job lined up?