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The Bench


Lillian

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QUOTE (Lillian @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 11:49 AM)
I'd love to see some video of his 3 hits in yesterday's game. I'm curious to see if his swing was really any different.

As long as he has been struggling, in his career, wouldn't you think that he would have changed his swing, a long time ago?

 

he has changed multiple times, and always falls back into habits. I wouldnt put too much stock into him becoming a starter-level hitter at this point because of a mystery change in his swing reported in a spring fluff piece

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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Mar 18, 2015 -> 10:19 PM)
Oh come now ptatc do you really think a guy like me wouldn't know the Outfield isn't rap ? I was just stating that my musical tastes do not include rap when I know a lot of the younger folks on here like it. And saying Abba to Sex Pistols was not an alphabetical list it was variance of musical styling, that soft rock pure pop eurobeat to the maniacally ear pounding anti-establishment declaration of war that scream F you at everything punk rock.

 

Sorry my friend no Zappa but I do have ZZ Top , The Zombies and Zager and Evans .

 

oops left out Warren Zevon . My ipod lists it under W.

I figured you would that is why I didn't get the statement. Makes more sense now.

 

I agree with the styling, right up my taste as well. That's why I'm surprised there is no Mothers. Sex Pistols and the Dead Kennedys are better anyway!

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QUOTE (GreenSox @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 02:53 PM)
If Beckham had accomplished exactly what he did, but in a different uniform, there would be far more acceptance of his spot on the roster.

Agree as well. It's why everyone loves non-tender possibilities from other teams, but doesn't want their own.

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QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Mar 18, 2015 -> 05:46 PM)
I respectfully disagree. What you know you're getting from Beckham isn't enough, imo, to justify the roster position. The ceiling of Saladino in particular, as a utility player, is higher than Gordo's. If RH's endorsement is to be believed, he's better and more versatile defensively. He's better suited to plug weakness vs. left-handed pitching. He likely has more power, because all of GB's seems to have vanished. He's probably a touch faster. He'll be 26 years old in July - he looks ready. Outside of concern for his injury situation, and GB's under-contract presence, I would really liked to have seen him get his first chance now.

 

But it's no biggie. Gordon could conceivably be decent in the role.

I agree. it's just a matter of opinion. But being in MLB locker rooms and watching rookies struggle acclimating to the MLB makes me very hesitant to have any rookie in that role, regardless of how much more talented he may be. That's why you rarely see a rookie like Saladino get the role like Beckham. It's more that mental adjustment than physical. If they are trying to win that mental adjustment for the rookie compounded by the talent of UT player is just too unstable.

 

But Saladino could tear the cover off the ball as well but the odds are against it. That's why bench players are usually failed regulars or older vets nearing retirement.

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The same folks who criticize a Gordon Beckham, John Danks, Noesi, etal, are the first ones to slober all over some other teams reject or reclamation project. Beckham can bring a positive contribution to this team. He is a plus defender and can play three IF positions. He may come around and hit decently also. We should all hope for that and I believe he was signed for a reason and that was to be a super IF sub or at least be that role player at this time. We could have worse ready to step in to a starting role

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QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 03:18 PM)
The same folks who criticize a Gordon Beckham, John Danks, Noesi, etal, are the first ones to slober all over some other teams reject or reclamation project. Beckham can bring a positive contribution to this team. He is a plus defender and can play three IF positions. He may come around and hit decently also. We should all hope for that and I believe he was signed for a reason and that was to be a super IF sub or at least be that role player at this time. We could have worse ready to step in to a starting role

 

The issue isn't whether or not Gordon Beckham can adequately be a backup 2nd/3rd baseman, it's that a backup 2nd/3rd baseman was literally the last thing we needed to spend our limited resources on.

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QUOTE (ptatc @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 02:15 PM)
I agree. it's just a matter of opinion. But being in MLB locker rooms and watching rookies struggle acclimating to the MLB makes me very hesitant to have any rookie in that role, regardless of how much more talented he may be. That's why you rarely see a rookie like Saladino get the role like Beckham. It's more that mental adjustment than physical. If they are trying to win that mental adjustment for the rookie compounded by the talent of UT player is just too unstable.

 

But Saladino could tear the cover off the ball as well but the odds are against it. That's why bench players are usually failed regulars or older vets nearing retirement.

Tyler has taken a circuitous, longish path to where he is today, but has not lacked for talent or tools. Bench players, especially young ones, can frequently excel at the dish, before a pitching "book" is developed. Many times they fail only when they're subsequently given an everyday role. I'm saying the prospects for actually improving the performance and versatility of the bench exists with TS, but it's moot until he gets the chance.

Maybe GB will take to the utility role and perform - we're all just spitballin' til the damn season starts.

Edited by Stan Bahnsen
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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 03:39 PM)
The issue isn't whether or not Gordon Beckham can adequately be a backup 2nd/3rd baseman, it's that a backup 2nd/3rd baseman was literally the last thing we needed to spend our limited resources on.

 

It pretty much was the last thing we used it on. Beckham was signed really late, and after everyone else who wasn't a minor leaguer.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 03:39 PM)
The issue isn't whether or not Gordon Beckham can adequately be a backup 2nd/3rd baseman, it's that a backup 2nd/3rd baseman was literally the last thing we needed to spend our limited resources on.

Why don't you provide some examples of players who would have signed for 2 million that would have made more sense. All the examples so far unless they played terribly are more than that amount.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 03:39 PM)
The issue isn't whether or not Gordon Beckham can adequately be a backup 2nd/3rd baseman, it's that a backup 2nd/3rd baseman was literally the last thing we needed to spend our limited resources on.

 

Signing Gordon Beckham prevented absolutely nothing.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 02:48 PM)
Signing Gordon Beckham prevented absolutely nothing.

Yeah, it's a drop in the bucket - not so much that they won't be afraid to eat it if he's not getting the job done. I disagree with the acquisition, but have made my peace with it - we'll see how he does.

 

What I reserve the right to still get peeved about, is how they use him. Most importantly, who will be Conor's platoon partner? GB or EB? I don't think they'll start the season with any platoons outside of 3B, and I hope that Beckhams role is D replacement for Micah or Conor, day off for the starting IF's, second pinch runner after EB, and little else. Do NOT want to see him as CG's complement. If Shuck is the last bench spot, will Boni really need to be in the OF more than the IF? Likely not.

 

Gordo's high leverage AB's, and AB's in general, if we're using him properly, need to be kept to a minimum.

Edited by Stan Bahnsen
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QUOTE (raBBit @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 04:11 PM)
Burke Badenhop 1 million

Craig Breslow 2 million

Joba Chamberlain 1 million

Chris Denorifa 2.6 million

Jim Johnson 1.6 million

Alexi Ogando 1.5 million

Josh Johnson 1 million

Franklin Morales MiLB deal

Ichiro 2 million

Rickie Weeks 2 million

Chris B. Young 2.5 million

 

Yes, Chris B. Young and Denorfia make more than two million but it's negligible.

Ichiro and Weeks also have incentives. I think Josh Johnson does as well. It is a nice list. Something we can come back to at the end of the year.

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 04:11 PM)
Burke Badenhop 1 million

Craig Breslow 2 million

Joba Chamberlain 1 million

Chris Denorifa 2.6 million

Jim Johnson 1.6 million

Alexi Ogando 1.5 million

Josh Johnson 1 million

Franklin Morales MiLB deal

Ichiro 2 million

Rickie Weeks 2 million

Chris B. Young 2.5 million

 

Yes, Chris B. Young and Denorfia make more than two million but it's negligible.

 

With the way the offseason shook out, the real comparison to those players is the sox signing Bonifacio, not beckham. You should be angry they chose bonifacio over Denorfia if you really cared.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 03:48 PM)
Signing Gordon Beckham prevented absolutely nothing.

 

The roster spot is as important as the $2m bucks. We needed pitching depth and OF depth, did not need IF depth. raBBit's list is good -- even if don't like those guys, they filled holes for us while Beckham is just another guy on a pile of guys we already had.

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QUOTE (bmags @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 04:23 PM)
With the way the offseason shook out, the real comparison to those players is the sox signing Bonifacio, not beckham. You should be angry they chose bonifacio over Denorfia if you really cared.

 

Why? Bonifacio can cover both OF and IF.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 04:27 PM)
The roster spot is as important as the $2m bucks. We needed pitching depth and OF depth, did not need IF depth. raBBit's list is good -- even if don't like those guys, they filled holes for us while Beckham is just another guy on a pile of guys we already had.

Who was the guy you were thinking of when you told me the only reason Brad Penny would ever have to start a game for the 2015 White Sox was because they signed Gordon Beckham?

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 04:27 PM)
The roster spot is as important as the $2m bucks. We needed pitching depth and OF depth, did not need IF depth. raBBit's list is good -- even if don't like those guys, they filled holes for us while Beckham is just another guy on a pile of guys we already had.

You also have to wonder if a couple of those relievers would even sign if they really have no shot at closing.i don't think Ogando or Jim Johnson would sign with the Sox due to that. I also think after the Sox signed Melky, Ichiro wouldn't be guaranteed enough playing time to sign.

 

I think if you think 2 million is the limit and trying to be realistic on the list, Badenhop, Breslow, Joba, and Frnklin Morales are the realistic guys they had a shot at with Beckham's money.and Breslow signed several weeks before Beckham so the money was available when he was available.and I wouldn't think Beckham's comtract could prevent a minor league deal so scratch Franklin Morales, and that list suddenly becomes Badenhop and Joba.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 04:27 PM)
The roster spot is as important as the $2m bucks. We needed pitching depth and OF depth, did not need IF depth. raBBit's list is good -- even if don't like those guys, they filled holes for us while Beckham is just another guy on a pile of guys we already had.

 

The $2 million is about as close to meaningless as it gets. That is the salary of a mimimum wage guy, which the roster spot would cost anyway, plus $1.5 million. In 2015, it is nothing.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 04:34 PM)
Who was the guy you were thinking of when you told me the only reason Brad Penny would ever have to start a game for the 2015 White Sox was because they signed Gordon Beckham?

 

Alexi Ogando, Paul Maholm, Chad Billingsley, Dana Eveland, Chris Volstad, Ross Ohlendorf, Scott Baker, Ryan Vogelsong, Tim Stauffer are all guys that signed for anywhere between minor league deal and $4m. Obviously none of those guys are awesome, but we needed more s*** to throw at the wall from a rotation perspective than we ended up getting (obviously since we're talking about going north with Penny), and I'm just not convinced we need another bench IF.

 

No, I don't have any information specifically to suggest that Beckham was signed instead of any of those guys, but that's where the statement, "I'd rather have put that money toward some rotation depth" comes from.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 04:42 PM)
The $2 million is about as close to meaningless as it gets. That is the salary of a mimimum wage guy, which the roster spot would cost anyway, plus $1.5 million. In 2015, it is nothing.

 

Yeah, I have no idea how tight their budgets actually are -- I just know we didn't get enough small-guy SP depth but we DID we Beckham, who I just don't think we needed at all. Could be no connection between those two facts.

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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 05:01 PM)
Alexi Ogando, Paul Maholm, Chad Billingsley, Dana Eveland, Chris Volstad, Ross Ohlendorf, Scott Baker, Ryan Vogelsong, Tim Stauffer are all guys that signed for anywhere between minor league deal and $4m. Obviously none of those guys are awesome, but we needed more s*** to throw at the wall from a rotation perspective than we ended up getting (obviously since we're talking about going north with Penny), and I'm just not convinced we need another bench IF.

 

No, I don't have any information specifically to suggest that Beckham was signed instead of any of those guys, but that's where the statement, "I'd rather have put that money toward some rotation depth" comes from.

 

If they can afford $4 million, why are you complaining about Beckham's $2 million. Then they still should have a couple million to burn.

 

You are moving the goalposts here.

 

You have stated time and time again that the 2 million Beckham is getting pretty much is what they had left, because according to you they picked Beckham instead of anyone else, , which one of these guys would you have signed? They obviously couldn't have signed them all.

And can you explain to me how guys who sign minor league contracts were blocked from signing with the White Sox because the Sox signed Beckham?

 

 

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Mar 19, 2015 -> 05:03 PM)
Yeah, I have no idea how tight their budgets actually are -- I just know we didn't get enough small-guy SP depth but we DID we Beckham, who I just don't think we needed at all. Could be no connection between those two facts.

 

I think Beckham's signing was more about putting Saladino and the loser of Sanchez and Johnson into the minors to play every day so as to keep developing. They could care less if Gordo rots on the bench.

 

I also believe the White Sox honestly believe that between their five leading starters and Brad Penny, they have enough to bridge the gap for Carlos Rodon to be ready to go by June at the latest. Another starter would have been behind Sale, Q, Smarj, Danks, Noesi, Rodon, and Penny, at least. Then you also have to look at guys like Johnson and Beck as possibilities for later in the season, or just a trade by then.

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