White Sox cuts, round 2

[Whisox05]

#WhiteSox have optioned Leury Garcia, Onelki Garcia & Andy Wilkins to @KnightsBaseball; Frankie Montas to @BhamBarons... (1/2)

https://twitter.com/whitesox/status/580419068659912704

 

#WhiteSox have reassigned RHP Logan Kensing, RHP Nolan Sanburn and LHP Joe Savery to minor-league camp. (2/2)

https://twitter.com/whitesox/status/580419167574167552

[chitownsportsfan]

Huh, figured they would have just released Leury to clear a spot on the 40 man. Guess there's no rush but usually it seems teams "do a solid" to guys like that and just grant them release to see if they can grab a big league job elsewhere.

 

Well maybe Leury just has no shot and everyone agreed AAA is where he'd best be served.

[greg775]

Poor Andy Wilkins. Shouldn't they trade him somewhere he's got a chance to play?

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Huh, figured they would have just released Leury to clear a spot on the 40 man. Guess there's no rush but usually it seems teams "do a solid" to guys like that and just grant them release to see if they can grab a big league job elsewhere.

 

Well maybe Leury just has no shot and everyone agreed AAA is where he'd best be served.

 

The only reason Leury had a big league job last year is because of his versatility and speed. Because he sure as hell couldn't hit like a big leaguer.

[NorthSideSox72]

Poor Andy Wilkins. Shouldn't they trade him somewhere he's got a chance to play?

I said before, he's a guy the team wants there, for now. That said, I'd bet at least one of Neftali Soto, Dan Black and Wilkins is gone by the time Charlotte opens play. Maybe two of them.

 

[Balta1701]

Huh, figured they would have just released Leury to clear a spot on the 40 man. Guess there's no rush but usually it seems teams "do a solid" to guys like that and just grant them release to see if they can grab a big league job elsewhere.

 

Well maybe Leury just has no shot and everyone agreed AAA is where he'd best be served.

Leury Garcia is a player with decent potential, particularly on defense. Strong arm, decent skills, but extremely raw in every aspect of the game. It makes no sense to give him away. He may never see the big leagues again, but then he may also do so. If we were doing "what is best for the chances of developing him" he'd have gotten a full season in AA in 2013 and a full AAA season in 2014, he was instead on the big league bench. That's a setup where anyone not named Mike Trout should be expected to struggle.

[chitownsportsfan]

Leury Garcia is a player with decent potential, particularly on defense. Strong arm, decent skills, but extremely raw in every aspect of the game. It makes no sense to give him away. He may never see the big leagues again, but then he may also do so. If we were doing "what is best for the chances of developing him" he'd have gotten a full season in AA in 2013 and a full AAA season in 2014, he was instead on the big league bench. That's a setup where anyone not named Mike Trout should be expected to struggle.

 

Personally I think he's a dime a dozen no hit all glove type that probably isn't elite enough at one position (say SS) to ever be anything more than a .5 WAR utility guy -- if that. That said, he's not costing them any real money and the 40 man isn't full so yea send him down and see what happens.

[southsider2k5]

Poor Andy Wilkins. Shouldn't they trade him somewhere he's got a chance to play?

 

Not really, no. Why would the White Sox give up an asset for no reason? I think eventually he will leave the organization as he is absolutely blocked, but there are other guys who will be moved out first. At the end of the day, I think the perception of him is as a 4A player, otherwise the White Sox don't drop $25 million on LaRoche. I doubt there is a whole of external interest in him. Who has first base jobs open?

[Balta1701]

Personally I think he's a dime a dozen no hit all glove type that probably isn't elite enough at one position (say SS) to ever be anything more than a .5 WAR utility guy -- if that. That said, he's not costing them any real money and the 40 man isn't full so yea send him down and see what happens.

I'd be totally ok with that and you'll note that we spent a couple million bringing in guys to do that already this year.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Poor Andy Wilkins. Shouldn't they trade him somewhere he's got a chance to play?

 

 

I'm not really sure there's a team for him to play on.

[NorthSideSox72]

Leury Garcia is a player with decent potential, particularly on defense. Strong arm, decent skills, but extremely raw in every aspect of the game. It makes no sense to give him away. He may never see the big leagues again, but then he may also do so. If we were doing "what is best for the chances of developing him" he'd have gotten a full season in AA in 2013 and a full AAA season in 2014, he was instead on the big league bench. That's a setup where anyone not named Mike Trout should be expected to struggle.

Disagree. We've seen him in the majors for 1.5 seasons now, 94 games, over 200 PA. He posted a .399 OPS in 74 games last year. That's not a SLG or OBP, that is OPS. That is worse than a lot of pitchers. He was 24 that season, which is young but not THAT young. He's been playing pro ball since 2008. Even that defense he's known for was nothing spectacular to my eyes. Yes he can play all over, yes he's likely to be semi-comptetent or better at many of them. Yes he can run.

 

But to me, he is behind Sanchez, Saladino and maybe even Juan Diaz for MIF depth in the minors, as all of them could provide superior value IMO. I'd hate for him to get playing time above any of them.

 

[Dick Allen]

Disagree. We've seen him in the majors for 1.5 seasons now, 94 games, over 200 PA. He posted a .399 OPS in 74 games last year. That's not a SLG or OBP, that is OPS. That is worse than a lot of pitchers. He was 24 that season, which is young but not THAT young. He's been playing pro ball since 2008. Even that defense he's known for was nothing spectacular to my eyes. Yes he can play all over, yes he's likely to be semi-comptetent or better at many of them. Yes he can run.

 

But to me, he is behind Sanchez, Saladino and maybe even Juan Diaz for MIF depth in the minors, as all of them could provide superior value IMO. I'd hate for him to get playing time above any of them.

He turned 24 less than a week ago. To judge him based on scattered ABs last year is ridiculous. Let him get some time in AAA. In AA as a 21 year old he hit .292 with a .337 OBP. As a 22 year old in AAA he hit .265 with a .317 OBP. He fields a lot of positions well, many scouting reports and my 2014 BP think he will be a ++ SS defensively. He has a great arm and can run like the wind. Dumping him because as a 23 year old he didn't adjust to less than one AB a game is crazy. Not many guys who will be at Charlotte will be able to help the White Sox win games this year with their bats this season. He can help at some point with his glove and legs.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

Disagree. We've seen him in the majors for 1.5 seasons now, 94 games, over 200 PA. He posted a .399 OPS in 74 games last year. That's not a SLG or OBP, that is OPS. That is worse than a lot of pitchers. He was 24 that season, which is young but not THAT young. He's been playing pro ball since 2008. Even that defense he's known for was nothing spectacular to my eyes. Yes he can play all over, yes he's likely to be semi-comptetent or better at many of them. Yes he can run.

 

But to me, he is behind Sanchez, Saladino and maybe even Juan Diaz for MIF depth in the minors, as all of them could provide superior value IMO. I'd hate for him to get playing time above any of them.

 

I tend to agree. I think he has no ceiling at all. He is fast, that is about it.

[Balta1701]

Disagree. We've seen him in the majors for 1.5 seasons now, 94 games, over 200 PA. He posted a .399 OPS in 74 games last year. That's not a SLG or OBP, that is OPS. That is worse than a lot of pitchers. He was 24 that season, which is young but not THAT young. He's been playing pro ball since 2008. Even that defense he's known for was nothing spectacular to my eyes. Yes he can play all over, yes he's likely to be semi-comptetent or better at many of them. Yes he can run.

 

But to me, he is behind Sanchez, Saladino and maybe even Juan Diaz for MIF depth in the minors, as all of them could provide superior value IMO. I'd hate for him to get playing time above any of them.

Would you expect a guy who skipped AA and AAA to be on the big league bench to be better than that? How much better?

 

My version of this is "you put the guy in a position where he was supposed to fail. You can't be surprised if he failed at it".

[shysocks]

I thought the consensus on Leury has always been "no bat." He has skills that can be useful to the right team but I wouldn't expect him to ever hit much, and that limits his ceiling severely.

[flavum]

44 in camp.

 

3 DL guys: Sale, Crain and Jones

 

16 cuts left:

Asencio, Beck, Carroll, E Johnson, Leon, Phillips, Rodon, Surkamp, Webb, Brantly, Kottaras, Diaz, Sanchez, Beltre, Hawkins.

 

Shuck or Cleto, depending on the number of pitchers.

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

If only Wilkins was 2 years younger, and he could just slot in right after LaRoche. He's kind of in a hard place right now. He can't sit in Charlotte for 2 more full seasons.

[Dick Allen]

I thought the consensus on Leury has always been "no bat." He has skills that can be useful to the right team but I wouldn't expect him to ever hit much, and that limits his ceiling severely.

He is never going to be a good hitter, but chances are most of the White Sox prospects will not be good hitters in the major leagues either. He does offer other things many White Sox prospects do not. And if he can work on keeping the ball out of the air, he may develop into a guy whose offense is good enough.

[NorthSideSox72]

He turned 24 less than a week ago. To judge him based on scattered ABs last year is ridiculous. Let him get some time in AAA. In AA as a 21 year old he hit .292 with a .337 OBP. As a 22 year old in AAA he hit .265 with a .317 OBP. He fields a lot of positions well, many scouting reports and my 2014 BP think he will be a ++ SS defensively. He has a great arm and can run like the wind. Dumping him because as a 23 year old he didn't adjust to less than one AB a game is crazy. Not many guys who will be at Charlotte will be able to help the White Sox win games this year with their bats this season. He can help at some point with his glove and legs.

 

If I thought he had any shot at starting, I'd agree. As being a utility guy is IMO his ceiling, then his time in the majors is pretty meaningful. And heck even if he'd managed a .600 OPS (just to pick one stat in this case), then that'd be fine, but he was WAY bad offensively. Just awful.

 

And if the Sox lacked MIF depth for AAA I'd be all about him starting down there. But they don't, and my view is that Saladino and Sanchez are both better now and have more ceiling. Therefore, I see no reason to keep Leury around, unless you can get him through waivers and use him as a bench guy in AAA. Then, fine.

 

Would you expect a guy who skipped AA and AAA to be on the big league bench to be better than that? How much better?

 

My version of this is "you put the guy in a position where he was supposed to fail. You can't be surprised if he failed at it".

 

He didn't skip either. True he didn't play a lot at either though.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

If I thought he had any shot at starting, I'd agree. As being a utility guy is IMO his ceiling, then his time in the majors is pretty meaningful. And heck even if he'd managed a .600 OPS (just to pick one stat in this case), then that'd be fine, but he was WAY bad offensively. Just awful.

 

And if the Sox lacked MIF depth for AAA I'd be all about him starting down there. But they don't, and my view is that Saladino and Sanchez are both better now and have more ceiling. Therefore, I see no reason to keep Leury around, unless you can get him through waivers and use him as a bench guy in AAA. Then, fine.

 

 

 

He didn't skip either. True he didn't play a lot at either though.

He should have been in AAA last year but because of roster construction was in over his head. Any of the other guys would have been as well.

 

Leury's time in the majors is not significant. He clearly wasn't ready. Sanchez got some regular ABs when he was called up, and he didn't manage a .600 OPS.

[NorthSideSox72]

He should have been in AAA last year but because of roster construction was in over his head. Any of the other guys would have been as well.

 

Leury's time in the majors is not significant. He clearly wasn't ready. Sanchez got some regular ABs when he was called up, and he didn't manage a .600 OPS.

Sanchez has a far better hit tool and is able to defend all three skill INF positions at least competently, in fact he looked better at 2B than Garcia did to me (the only one I saw them both play more than a game). They both have some speed. The only advantages I see for Leury is that he can also play OF in a pinch and has slightly more speed. I'll take Sanchez.

 

[Dick Allen]

Sanchez has a far better hit tool and is able to defend all three skill INF positions at least competently, in fact he looked better at 2B than Garcia did to me (the only one I saw them both play more than a game). They both have some speed. The only advantages I see for Leury is that he can also play OF in a pinch and has slightly more speed. I'll take Sanchez.

 

That still doesn't mean it makes sense for the White Sox to just let Leury go. Saladino, Sanchez and Garcia aren't much different as projected finish projects. They pretty much all project to utility guys. Leury may not ever be able to hit, but same with the others. Saladino will be 26 this summer. Still in AAA usually isn't the recipe for future difference maker. Keep as many as you can around. No reason to let anyone go to make room for Brad Penny.

[NorthSideSox72]

That still doesn't mean it makes sense for the White Sox to just let Leury go. Saladino, Sanchez and Garcia aren't much different as projected finish projects. They pretty much all project to utility guys. Leury may not ever be able to hit, but same with the others. Saladino will be 26 this summer. Still in AAA usually isn't the recipe for future difference maker. Keep as many as you can around. No reason to let anyone go to make room for Brad Penny.

Sure it does. Well more clearly, what makes sense is to look at what you have. If you believe Saladino and Sanchez need to be starting (as I do and I'd bet they do, but that's a guess), and Leury is taking a 40-man slot you need for 25-man guys, then the logical thing to do is to try to trade Leury... if that fails, put him through waivers... if he clears, put him on Charlotte's bench. If he gets claimed, try to work a deal, or just let him go.

 

[shysocks]

That still doesn't mean it makes sense for the White Sox to just let Leury go. Saladino, Sanchez and Garcia aren't much different as projected finish projects. They pretty much all project to utility guys. Leury may not ever be able to hit, but same with the others. Saladino will be 26 this summer. Still in AAA usually isn't the recipe for future difference maker. Keep as many as you can around. No reason to let anyone go to make room for Brad Penny.

There are degrees of not being able to hit. Garcia really, really won't hit.

[Dick Allen]

There are degrees of not being able to hit. Garcia really, really won't hit.

You could be right, but again, Leury only has 240 AB in AAA and was in over his head and not batting regularly, a recipe for bad results. Emilio Bonafacio is loved here. He put up a .650 OPS last year, the second highest of his career. Leury could develop enough to put up a .650 OPS IMO.