Germanwings (Lufthansa) plane crashes into Alps

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Here's where I think this sort of thing leads... we already, right now, have the technology to fly these planes remotely. Takeoff to landing. I think we'll soon see the day when that becomes the norm - planes flown from the ground - with just one pilot on the plane as the emergency backup plan (as opposed to now, with two pilots, one as backup).

Hooray for more automation. I know this is inevitable (and we're well on our way already), not only for aviation, but for damn near everything else- and it's very sad.

[pettie4sox]

Just to stress since lots of the garbage media is ignoring this; most people with depression, even most pilots with depression, do not crash planes into mountains. Most people do not have to inform their employers about personal issues or illnesses or even mental problems.

 

This statement could not be more accurate. The fact he was calm when he did is a telltale story that he was very aware of what he was doing.

[iamshack]

Just to stress since lots of the garbage media is ignoring this; most people with depression, even most pilots with depression, do not crash planes into mountains. Most people do not have to inform their employers about personal issues or illnesses or even mental problems.

So you're cool with your pilot battling depression or mental problems?

[Balta1701]

So you're cool with your pilot battling depression or mental problems?

Yes.

[iamshack]

Yes.

To each his own. If I'm a frequent business traveler, I'd prefer to avoid those pilots.

[Balta1701]

To each his own. If I'm a frequent business traveler, I'd prefer to avoid those pilots.

If you're a frequent business traveler you probably already have had a pilot with that issue. As well as met them in hundreds of other positions on your trips.

[iamshack]

If you're a frequent business traveler you probably already have had a pilot with that issue. As well as met them in hundreds of other positions on your trips.

The problem is it only takes once.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Better to have a depressed pilot/aircrew that is dealing with or has successfully dealt with the issue than a pilot/aircrew keeping it to themselves because it could mean their career otherwise.

[Kyyle23]

Better to have a depressed pilot/aircrew that is dealing with or has successfully dealt with the issue than a pilot/aircrew keeping it to themselves because it could mean their career otherwise.

 

yea, the guy was actively hiding it from his employer. Many people have depression and deal with it therapeutically, pharmaceutically, what have you. This guy obviously felt that he needed to hide it because it possibly would ground him due to its severity or company policy.

[Jenksismyhero]

Just to stress since lots of the garbage media is ignoring this; most people with depression, even most pilots with depression, do not crash planes into mountains. Most people do not have to inform their employers about personal issues or illnesses or even mental problems.

 

Interesting viewpoint given your opinions on guns and how everyone with them is a menace to society capable of killing.

[pettie4sox]

Interesting viewpoint given your opinions on guns and how everyone with them is a menace to society capable of killing.

 

This is bait.

[knightni]

Moved to the Filibuster because people can't stay away from pushing each other's buttons.

[Texsox]

Interesting viewpoint given your opinions on guns and how everyone with them is a menace to society capable of killing.

 

Setting aside the obvious baiting aspect, this is a very good question. I believe one of the categories we should treat as a distinct group are those jobs where you are responsible for other people's lives. I am not certain the connection between guns and depression is.

[Jenksismyhero]

Setting aside the obvious baiting aspect, this is a very good question. I believe one of the categories we should treat as a distinct group are those jobs where you are responsible for other people's lives. I am not certain the connection between guns and depression is.

 

The idea that in both situations someone can cause the death of someone else. 99% of the time it doesn't happen, but 1% of the time it does. Balta likes to point to the 1% with guns and say "see look how dangerous, ban them all!" Yet with planes and depression he's willing to give a pass apparently because it doesn't happen that often. The logic in the reaction isn't consistent.

[Balta1701]

The idea that in both situations someone can cause the death of someone else. 99% of the time it doesn't happen, but 1% of the time it does. Balta likes to point to the 1% with guns and say "see look how dangerous, ban them all!" Yet with planes and depression he's willing to give a pass apparently because it doesn't happen that often. The logic in the reaction isn't consistent.

I'm ok with reasonable safeguards which clearly did not happen in this case - that's a clear failure of imagination on the part of the airlines and manufacturers.

 

I'd probably be ok with reasonable safeguards on firearms as well. But since every time I try to suggest some either that's impossible or its an undue burden on this important group, I wind up saying f*** it. If my only 2 options are idiots who think they're rambo walking down the street with concealed weapons or banning them, then get rid of them all.

[Texsox]

The idea that in both situations someone can cause the death of someone else. 99% of the time it doesn't happen, but 1% of the time it does. Balta likes to point to the 1% with guns and say "see look how dangerous, ban them all!" Yet with planes and depression he's willing to give a pass apparently because it doesn't happen that often. The logic in the reaction isn't consistent.

 

I believe a key difference between being a passenger on an airplane and a customer in a store is the different level of trust. I don't trust the clerk at Starbucks with my life, I do with the pilot. I would hope the screening would be much different. Interesting is Balta and I are making the same connection but coming with much different conclusions. I'd rather they keep their guns than fly a plane. he'd rather take away their guns and give them an airplane.

 

Of course we both would rather they receive quality health care* and be fine with a gun and an airplane.

 

 

*We should not differentiate between mental health and other health.

[Rex Kickass]

Slate has had some pretty interesting opinions on this tragedy.

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_s...ession_but.html

 

Was Andreas Lubitz depressed? We don’t know; a torn-up doctor’s note and bottles of pills don’t tell us much. Most people who commit suicide suffer from a mental illness, most commonly depression. But calling his actions suicidal is misleading. Lubitz did not die quietly at home. He maliciously engineered a spectacular plane crash and killed 150 people. Suicidal thoughts can be a hallmark of depression, but mass murder is another beast entirely.

[Texsox]

 

I know we never should have allowed Germany to reunite. We saw what they did last time they were together. Terrorism

[Balta1701]

I believe a key difference between being a passenger on an airplane and a customer in a store is the different level of trust. I don't trust the clerk at Starbucks with my life, I do with the pilot. I would hope the screening would be much different. Interesting is Balta and I are making the same connection but coming with much different conclusions. I'd rather they keep their guns than fly a plane. he'd rather take away their guns and give them an airplane.

 

Of course we both would rather they receive quality health care* and be fine with a gun and an airplane.

 

 

*We should not differentiate between mental health and other health.

I'm not sure I'd trust the pilot to be alone in the cockpit no matter who they were, and they receive a heckuva lot more training than we require of gun owners in many states now.

[Jenksismyhero]

I'm ok with reasonable safeguards which clearly did not happen in this case - that's a clear failure of imagination on the part of the airlines and manufacturers.

 

I'd probably be ok with reasonable safeguards on firearms as well. But since every time I try to suggest some either that's impossible or its an undue burden on this important group, I wind up saying f*** it. If my only 2 options are idiots who think they're rambo walking down the street with concealed weapons or banning them, then get rid of them all.

 

But that's bulls***, at least with the posters here, because we have all generally agreed to a bevy of additional requirements including registration, training, further penalties on sellers, etc. and yet it's still not enough.

 

And those aren't the only options. Currently there are a number of laws on who can have a gun, how it can be used, when it can be used, etc. Just because criminals don't follow the law doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Balta1701]

But that's bulls***, at least with the posters here, because we have all generally agreed to a bevy of additional requirements including registration, training, further penalties on sellers, etc. and yet it's still not enough.

 

And those aren't the only options. Currently there are a number of laws on who can have a gun, how it can be used, when it can be used, etc. Just because criminals don't follow the law doesn't mean they don't exist.

Exactly why there should be extra safeguards, like not allowing them on the streets, requiring trigger locks, and not having a single pilot alone in the cabin.

[Texsox]

I'm not sure I'd trust the pilot to be alone in the cockpit no matter who they were, and they receive a heckuva lot more training than we require of gun owners in many states now.

100% agree.

[Jenksismyhero]

Exactly why there should be extra safeguards, like not allowing them on the streets, requiring trigger locks, and not having a single pilot alone in the cabin.

 

The difference being that those "safeguards" may or may not (probably not) drop the murder rate, whereas adding a 2nd person in the cockpit WILL prevent some lunatic pilot locking the door and crashing a plane.

[Texsox]

The difference being that those "safeguards" may or may not (probably not) drop the murder rate, whereas adding a 2nd person in the cockpit WILL prevent some lunatic pilot locking the door and crashing a plane.

 

Ah, now the fun of that proposal. Cost - Benefit? How can we assure ourselves that the second person can overpower the pilot if necessary? How can we assure ourselves that the second person won't be the one to take over the plane and plan a control flight into terrain? The irony that we felt safer when pilots could insulate themselves from the other passengers. Now we want people on the outside to get inside.

 

 

[bmags]

Ah, now the fun of that proposal. Cost - Benefit? How can we assure ourselves that the second person can overpower the pilot if necessary? How can we assure ourselves that the second person won't be the one to take over the plane and plan a control flight into terrain? The irony that we felt safer when pilots could insulate themselves from the other passengers. Now we want people on the outside to get inside.

 

This was already policy in US.

 

Frankly, this is a rare and terrible incident, and frankly having 2 people in cockpit makes sense for numerous reasons that go beyond preventing mass murder. But yes, I do think that murderers are weird and may struggle with looking a friend in the eye and murdering them vs. locking them away and doing it.

 

Frankly, if a pilot is dead set on crashing a plane they will likely accomplish it.