Indiana "religious freedom" law

[Jenksismyhero]

So, doing business with Indiana means you hate gays, but baking a cake for a gay wedding means nothing? Just as you are implying guilt by association, so are the bakers etc. who don't want to do business with gay weddings and be guilty of supporting it by association.

 

Well if you buy gas you're supporting beheadings of terrorists so...the logic makes sense.

 

Also, everyone one of you on a computer/phone hate children and the labor they're forced into. Tsk, tsk.

 

I'm getting a kick out of all these huge companies condemning the law while at the same time continuing to do business with countries in the middle east, china, etc. Not allowing someone to refuse to work at a gay wedding totally unacceptable, pull the plug. Continue doing business in China with their human rights violations, meh. Talk about PR opportunities.

[Texsox]

So, doing business with Indiana means you hate gays, but baking a cake for a gay wedding means nothing? Just as you are implying guilt by association, so are the bakers etc. who don't want to do business with gay weddings and be guilty of supporting it by association.

 

Damn, I am agreeing with Alpha and not Balta.

I need to go think, this can't be right.

 

BTW, we do need to look carefully at the statements doing business WITH Indiana (as in the state) and doing business IN Indiana. In my mind there is a huge difference. SS2K5 lives in Indiana, I would still do business with him. If I had the luxury (which few businesses do) I might not do business with the State of Indiana government.

[EvilMonkey]

You two love the hyperbole blanket statements but I guess that's what the buster is for.

Just wondering if one action is an 'endorsement' of things, why isn't the other?

[EvilMonkey]

Damn, I am agreeing with Alpha and not Balta.

 

Every time Keith does that he takes a shot. Now you understand some of the stuff he posts from time to time.

[Soxbadger]

There are specific reasons why businesses start and stay in a certain area. Tax advantages, economic incentives, nearby customers, nearby suppliers, owners live nearby, etc. Rarely is there a business that can just open randomly anywhere. Businesses open to make money. People are investing their life's savings. Someone from Indiana isn't going to say I was going to open a business here in my hometown but now I will move to Kentucky instead. People don't make major investments based on forcing social change.

 

The issues that cause businesses to choose a location or not are ones that impact their bottom line. Social issues are not a major determent.

 

Im going to go out on a limb and say that the taxes generated by small mom an pop businesses pale in comparison to large corporations.

 

How much revenue would Indiana lose if they lost the Big10 championship, Indy 500 etc. How much revenue do they gain by passing this law? Economically speaking its not very logical.

 

If Indiana wants to be on the wrong side of history, that is their call. The last time I was there was over 10 years ago to see Bon Jovi, ironically Melissa Etheridge was one of the opening acts.

[Soxbadger]

Well if you buy gas you're supporting beheadings of terrorists so...the logic makes sense.

 

Also, everyone one of you on a computer/phone hate children and the labor they're forced into. Tsk, tsk.

 

I'm getting a kick out of all these huge companies condemning the law while at the same time continuing to do business with countries in the middle east, china, etc. Not allowing someone to refuse to work at a gay wedding totally unacceptable, pull the plug. Continue doing business in China with their human rights violations, meh. Talk about PR opportunities.

 

Of course its hypocritical. But Im an opportunist, I dont get many chances to call out China/Qatar etc (and quite frankly Im not sure that they even care what I think), but when I see something that looks like bigotry, I have no problem calling people on it.

 

I mean deep down this just seems like tyranny of the majority.

[Texsox]

Im going to go out on a limb and say that the taxes generated by small mom an pop businesses pale in comparison to large corporations.

 

How much revenue would Indiana lose if they lost the Big10 championship, Indy 500 etc. How much revenue do they gain by passing this law? Economically speaking its not very logical.

 

If Indiana wants to be on the wrong side of history, that is their call. The last time I was there was over 10 years ago to see Bon Jovi, ironically Melissa Etheridge was one of the opening acts.

 

I'll saw off the limb. Mom and pop business, and all single location businesses, pay taxes in Indiana. Large corporations are more likely to have been given tax incentives to locate there. They are also more likely to shift their tax liabilities to more tax friendly locations.

 

The Indy 500 is based at a specific track and isn't moving. Also as a member school Indiana isn't going to be frozen out of the revenues or kicked out of the Big 10 over this. Notre Dame isn't going to find opponents unwilling to play in Indiana.

[Balta1701]

I'll saw off the limb. Mom and pop business, and all single location businesses, pay taxes in Indiana. Large corporations are more likely to have been given tax incentives to locate there. They are also more likely to shift their tax liabilities to more tax friendly locations.

 

The Indy 500 is based at a specific track and isn't moving. Also as a member school Indiana isn't going to be frozen out of the revenues or kicked out of the Big 10 over this. Notre Dame isn't going to find opponents unwilling to play in Indiana.

But you certainly could convince people like me not to watch the Big 10 Tourney if it was held in Indy.

[Jenksismyhero]

Of course its hypocritical. But Im an opportunist, I dont get many chances to call out China/Qatar etc (and quite frankly Im not sure that they even care what I think), but when I see something that looks like bigotry, I have no problem calling people on it.

 

I mean deep down this just seems like tyranny of the majority.

 

That's fine for you, but when you're a company trying to gain some positive publicity it seems completely disingenuous.

 

Now that I think about it, it's also interesting that people believe Hobby Lobby was such a terrible decision because corporations can't hold religious beliefs, they're just legal entities. Yet corporations can have "beliefs" about social issues like this. What's the difference?

[Jenksismyhero]

But you certainly could convince people like me not to watch the Big 10 Tourney if it was held in Indy.

 

You still watch the Superbowl, you child/spouse abuse supporter.

[southsider2k5]

That's fine for you, but when you're a company trying to gain some positive publicity it seems completely disingenuous.

 

Now that I think about it, it's also interesting that people believe Hobby Lobby was such a terrible decision because corporations can't hold religious beliefs, they're just legal entities. Yet corporations can have "beliefs" about social issues like this. What's the difference?

 

Except in Indiana, businesses can now hold religious beliefs.

[Balta1701]

You still watch the Superbowl, you child/spouse abuse supporter.

You continue to say this while ignoring the reply I gave last time so I'm not going to bother since you obviously didn't listen then.

[Jenksismyhero]

You continue to say this while ignoring the reply I gave last time so I'm not going to bother since you obviously didn't listen then.

 

You gave no logical reply, so there wasn't much to listen to. IIRC you gave a stat about NFL abuse being lower than the national rate, which was irrelevant to the NFL still allowing that s*** in their league. You're making the exact same bad correlation argument. Doing business in Indiana based on one law out of the tens of thousands on the books does not mean you support said law in any way shape or form.

 

Btw, you living in this country wherein states can pass laws to discriminate against homosexuals means you support discrimination of homosexuals.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Jenksismybitch

[Soxbadger]

I'll saw off the limb. Mom and pop business, and all single location businesses, pay taxes in Indiana. Large corporations are more likely to have been given tax incentives to locate there. They are also more likely to shift their tax liabilities to more tax friendly locations.

 

The Indy 500 is based at a specific track and isn't moving. Also as a member school Indiana isn't going to be frozen out of the revenues or kicked out of the Big 10 over this. Notre Dame isn't going to find opponents unwilling to play in Indiana.

 

Even if the large corp has tax breaks, it employs thousands of people so if they move Indiana loses all the revenue from income tax, sales tax and property tax from those workers.

 

Indiana the school wont likely be kicked out of the Big10, but right now the BIG 10 holds events like the football championship and basketball championship in Indiana. Those would be easy to take away.

 

Its just bad business, which is why only privately held corps (ChikFila, Hobby Lobby) are willing to do it, because they care more about their souls than bottom lines.

 

 

[Balta1701]

You gave no logical reply, so there wasn't much to listen to. IIRC you gave a stat about NFL abuse being lower than the national rate, which was irrelevant to the NFL still allowing that s*** in their league. You're making the exact same bad correlation argument. Doing business in Indiana based on one law out of the tens of thousands on the books does not mean you support said law in any way shape or form.

 

Btw, you living in this country wherein states can pass laws to discriminate against homosexuals means you support discrimination of homosexuals.

Which is why I want people like you to assist me in ending Indiana's discriminatory bullcrap. But alas, that's clearly a lost cause.

[Soxbadger]

You gave no logical reply, so there wasn't much to listen to. IIRC you gave a stat about NFL abuse being lower than the national rate, which was irrelevant to the NFL still allowing that s*** in their league. You're making the exact same bad correlation argument. Doing business in Indiana based on one law out of the tens of thousands on the books does not mean you support said law in any way shape or form.

 

Btw, you living in this country wherein states can pass laws to discriminate against homosexuals means you support discrimination of homosexuals.

 

Why do you care if its a bad argument?

 

Sometimes a bad argument can be used to make a good change.

[southsider2k5]

So Wal-Mart kind forced Arkansas's governor not to sign a bill like Indiana's down there. Boy that has to conflict some people.

[EvilMonkey]

If only the tolerance crowd weren't so damned intolerant of those that disagree with them, some states might not feel compelled to do these things.

[CrimsonWeltall]

If only the tolerance crowd weren't so damned intolerant of those that disagree with them, some states might not feel compelled to do these things.

 

How exactly is the tolerance crowd supposed to be tolerant of intolerance? If they tolerated intolerance, they wouldn't be the tolerance crowd.

[Quin]

How exactly is the tolerance crowd supposed to be tolerant of intolerance? If they tolerated intolerance, they wouldn't be the tolerance crowd.

 

I feel like this is a riddle.

[EvilMonkey]

How exactly is the tolerance crowd supposed to be tolerant of intolerance? If they tolerated intolerance, they wouldn't be the tolerance crowd.

How is the baker who doesn't want to bake a cake being intolerant? He is saying that he doesn't want anything to do with your ceremony, but go ahead and get married, or whatever, just don't involve me. The other side is saying 'do as i say or we'll force you to do it thru the use of government power'. It is not a crime to think that gay marriage isn't right or against your religion. (a stance I do not share, btw) SO why try and force someone to do something against their will?

 

An example of real 'tolerance' here.

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/04/01/cris...r-gay-weddings/

Death threats. Threats to burn the place down. Yeah, way to win over hearts and minds there with your extreme tolerance.

[EvilMonkey]

I feel like this is a riddle.

tounge-twister!

[Balta1701]

How is the baker who doesn't want to bake a cake being intolerant? He is saying that he doesn't want anything to do with your ceremony, but go ahead and get married, or whatever, just don't involve me. The other side is saying 'do as i say or we'll force you to do it thru the use of government power'. It is not a crime to think that gay marriage isn't right or against your religion. (a stance I do not share, btw) SO why try and force someone to do something against their will?

 

An example of real 'tolerance' here.

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/04/01/cris...r-gay-weddings/

Death threats. Threats to burn the place down. Yeah, way to win over hearts and minds there with your extreme tolerance.

If you're going to play the "any time someone gets death threats it condemns anyone who agrees with you" card, you better be ready to have that turned back against you.

[CrimsonWeltall]

How is the baker who doesn't want to bake a cake being intolerant?

 

He's refusing service to someone based on their uncontrolled attribute that has zero affect on the product/service. It's no different than rejecting black customers, or Christian customers, or Mexican customers.

 

SO why try and force someone to do something against their will?

 

Because this form of discrimination is bad for society, and people shouldn't have to worry about getting service at public accommodations.

[EvilMonkey]

If you're going to play the "any time someone gets death threats it condemns anyone who agrees with you" card, you better be ready to have that turned back against you.

Did I say anything about it encompassing all? Just showing an example, of which there are many.